Louisville's New Coach Seems To Be Hungry
by ParisGuy on Dec 12, 2009 9:41 AM EST
57 comments
Charlie Strong is coming to Louisville with the experience of being a winner.
The excitement is going to be there. How about ours?
I'm, for one, going to watch what Strong does as he goes about attempting to rebuild the Cardinals' football program. Being on national television as the outgoing defensive coordinator ot Florida on New Year's Day will give the Louisville program a step up in recruiting throughout the area. His experience of recruiting Florida high schoolers is going to suggest they are going to bringing in players from that state.
The ante is has raised by the Cards, now the Cats will have to battle a name the kids have heard of for recruiting.
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I agree Paris.
He’s already said he plans on recruiting the state heavily. Plus I heard or read on a news conference he plans on going for the 5 and 4 star recruits which I agree with what he said if you want compete with the Big Boys , the Texas’s Alabama’s and Florida’s, you got go after the same recruits they get. Hopefully it makes the Cats staff step their game up.
Strong said he WILL NOT be able
to recruit the 4 and the 5 star players from down here because he would not be able to compete with the Florida schools for these kids. He did say there was enough other talent in Florida to recruit though. That’s what I heard him say at least in a interview.
by Grasslands1 on Dec 12, 2009 11:11 PM EST up reply actions
Sorry It says it right here.
He says You need to get the same caliber player as Florida if you want to play them.
http://www.courier-journal.com/section/VideoNetwork?bctid=56424879001#/Latest+C%2DJ/Charlie+Strong%27s+Dec.+11+press+conference/46203188001/45162394001/56424879001
Want, does not mean he will get them. He already said
he knows he can’t get the 5 star Florida players from down here. What would it look like if he told the press up there that he doesn’t have a chance of getting studs, they would crucify him. He will still be recruiting from those schools though. Florida is not like the Commonwealth. There is not just one good player at a school. This state is loaded with talent. Of the top 150 HS football players, 38 are from Florida. I will repeat, no top notch Florida kid is going to UL or UK and be at a school that the sport is second fiddle. Why would they? It’s not even worth debating.
4-5* Success
Personally I’d like to see Strong sign a few 4-5* players, not for UL success, but to lay to rest the accepted premise that UK can’t successfully compete for such FB athletes.
"Learn(ing) without thinking begets ignorance. Think(ing) without learning is dangerous."
-Confucius
Why would a Florida stud want to go play football
in the Big East. Not going to happen. It is the SEC or the ACC for them. Also why would they want to go to UK. It is the farthest SEC school from their homes. If UK is going to get 4 and 5 star players consistently it will have to come from their region, KY, OH, IND, TENN, W. VA. You guys just don’t understand these kids, The best are not leaving the south where football is king. Charlie Strong will get his 3 star players and maybe even a 4 that the other schools pass on for some reason from Florida, but that will be it.
by Grasslands1 on Dec 12, 2009 11:28 PM EST up reply actions
Lost in all of the John Wall hoopla
(of which I am one of the most enthusiastic contributors!)— is this:
Suddenly, Louisville’s football future looks brighter than ours. At least it does in my subjective opinion.
Strong vs. Joker?
Overall Advantage: Louisville
Hope I’m proven wrong.
by Sonic on Dec 12, 2009 3:36 PM EST reply actions
I don't see where Strong is
any big advantage over Joker. One of the biggest measuring sticks in the short term is going to be how he fills out his coaching staff. Strong doesn’t have a long list of contacts within the coaching ranks due to his limited national experience so this will be his first big test. Oddly, Joker is in much the same experience level as Strong but has benefitted from Coach Brook’s experience and contacts.
It will be interesting to see how it all unfolds
and of course all we can give are “guesstimations” at this time.
I will say this, though. If I was a school out there in either the Big East or the SEC and I was in the position of having to hire either Strong or Joker to take over my program today, I would take a long, hard look at both of them and choose Strong. And that is the advantage that I personally feel UofL will have head-to-head versus UK.
Now, maybe you would look at both of them today, and choose Joker. Or say it is a tie. Or whatever you want to say. These are all valid opinions. And until Joker becomes the head coach and is finally held responsible as such, I guess opinions are all we will have, anyway.
by Sonic on Dec 13, 2009 4:50 PM EST up reply actions
Louisville is little brother to UK in football and
always will be as long as we are probation free. People don’t pay attention to when UL became strong we were suffering still from the Mumme era. We owned UL before then and we own them now.
In the 8 year period between 1999-2006
our record against Louisville was 1-7.
In the three years since, we won a thriller in 2007 that could have gone either way, handled them in 2008, and then barely managed to hold them off this year despite being favored.
And that was with Kragthorpe at their helm.
1.) How can that in any way be described as “owning them” ?
2.) How can you contribute all of that to just the aftershocks of the Mumme era?
3.) Coaching staffs do make a difference. Including the head coach. And in my subjective opinion, time will show that UofL under Strong’s direction will be in a better position than we will be under Joker’s.
Time, and head-to-head records, will tell. And hopefully I will be wrong.
by Sonic on Dec 13, 2009 12:01 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It's a new day at UK if you haven't noticed.
When we got our full allotment of scholarships back we have been the better program. Take the probation stretch and the aftermath and we were 12-2 historically against them. I personally am not sold on the Big East. If Cincinnati had been in the SEC they probably would have been 8-4. If UK had been in the Big EAST, we finish at probably 10-2. UC defense is pretty weak. Just my opinion and nobody here is going to change it.
We started playing 'for real' in 1994. The Governor's Cup Series. Since then we haven't held the advantage in the series since the first game.
If the Big East is so weak, why doesn’t Mitch schedule Cincinnati, West Virginia and Pittsburgh instead of our three buy games? Hint. They are MUST wins, lose to any of those three patsies and the chance of making it to the ‘sacred six’ win catagory is gone.
I believe you might be wrong on the rosters of the Cards during the big win seasons for them. Not last year.
I beiieve someone commented that Strong has, and he should, close ties to the high school coaches in Florida. Do you think that may give him some advantage to getting a couple of kids out of that state?
I have be correctly accused of having a 'football fetish'. You know, someone who doesn't think football is the warm up sport to basketball season.
Isn't one Big East school on our schedule enough?
Charlie will get Florida recruits, no doubt, but so do a lot of schools. He just won’t get the studs from Florida. Just from one of our HS’s here in Lakeland, the Lakeland HS Dreadnaughts, today two brothers chose Texas Tech (they wanted to go to the same school and only one was offered by UF) Both play offense and have 4.3 speed. Charlie Strong didn’t even know about these guys because they play offense. Lakeland HS also has players this year that have signed with Florida St., Purdue, Georgia Tech, and two with Georgia Southern. Tons of talent down here and Charlie will get some good players from here, but I repeat, he will not get the best players from here.
Tell us
How do you know Strong didn’t know those players from Lakeland that played offense?
I have be correctly accused of having a 'football fetish'. You know, someone who doesn't think football is the warm up sport to basketball season.
A Fact, not hearsay
I also live in Lakeland and just for sh-ts and giggles I just called the Lakeland Athletic director who is also an assistant coach, and just happens to be the individual who handles the college recruiting.
I asked if Kentucky has a presences on the campus at Lakeland and he said he’s been there eight years and doesn’t remember a coach from Kentucky being there.
He said they may ‘pass through’ but he’s never actually seen one.
A very nice gentlemen. I don’t believe he would mislead me since I told him we would love to see some of the athletes join the team in Lexington.
Folks, many of you don’t know the caliber of Lakeland High School Football. For fun, type in Lakeland Football and see what they have. Sent seven to Florida a few years ago, including Chis Rainey, and the Pouncey twins.
I have be correctly accused of having a 'football fetish'. You know, someone who doesn't think football is the warm up sport to basketball season.
That UK has not been here doesn't surprise
me at all. Heck, Spurrier didn’t even recruit Lakeland much.
by Grasslands1 on Dec 15, 2009 10:31 AM EST up reply actions
Just another terrible weather day here, right Paris?
by Grasslands1 on Dec 15, 2009 10:34 AM EST up reply actions
We should have somebody working the whole I-4 corridor.
by Grasslands1 on Dec 15, 2009 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
A Good Football area
There is a lot of talent in this area.
I was just surprised that Kentucky doesn’t make Lakeland a priiority. Especually with all the kids that go to other schools outside the SEC.. He did say that Florida gets there pick most always from the ‘naughts’. But them not making them selves known, well, there is some second stringers that could help the Cats. We need to let them know they can play in the SEC at Kentucky too.
He said Castle is on board for probably seven more years and that Greg? Smith, the kid from here that played quarterback for the Cats under Curci, helps him put on the annual fund raising golf tournament. I;m sure you know Smith is an attorney in town.
I asked him about next year’s quarterback, He said the young man is probably too short to play division one but is going to be good at a smaller college.
The weather is beautiful!
I have be correctly accused of having a 'football fetish'. You know, someone who doesn't think football is the warm up sport to basketball season.
Interesting point
Where does Kentucky get the best players from?
I have be correctly accused of having a 'football fetish'. You know, someone who doesn't think football is the warm up sport to basketball season.
LaGrange, GA — Perhaps Alcoa, TN
"Learn(ing) without thinking begets ignorance. Think(ing) without learning is dangerous."
-Confucius
Look, I would love to "own" Louisville as much as the next guy
but tell me the exact years you are using for your “12-2” record. And also, please tell me the exact years you are selectively excluding as part of your “probation stretch and aftermath” period.
How about we just look at the last three seasons, and start from there? (Since prior to that we lost 4 in a row, and I guess you would selectively include those 4 losses in the “probation aftermath” category.)
Happily, we have won the last three games. But where is the “owning”? Even if we had beaten them handily in each— which we didn’t, a three year stretch is not really long enough to “own” another program, is it?
Second Topic: the Big East
Here is where I agree with you completely. I am definitely not sold on the Big East. I don’t even think it should get one of the BCS automatics. But good recruiters at a Big East school (like Louisville) can use that to their advantage, for sure.
The very top recruits will go where they should go, the top of the SEC. But for the next tiers down, what is the shortest distance between them both getting playing time and also a possible shot at a big BCS bowl, or a possible shot at a national championship? As ridiculous as it may seem, the answer is much closer to “Cincinnati or Louisville” than it is to “Kentucky”. In his press conference Strong even hinted at that when he mentioned talking up the Big East, and pointing out how close Cincinnati…. Cincinnati…. (?!).… came to playing in a national championship. He will use that. And I would too, if I was him. Thanks to the automatic bid in the BCS, coupled with the level of competition in the Big East, both Cincinnati and Louisville go into each season as much more direct routes to the Daily Double of both playing time and “big stage” bowl game possibilities than Kentucky is. It stinks. But there it is.
I do think that we are better than Louisville head-to-head right now. But I do not think it is by nearly the wide margin you say. And I think that a shift in the balance of coaching can swing the head-to-head record in their favor. Maybe not by much, but enough to matter in the category that means the most, the one that starts with the letter “W”.
This is going to be a very competitive series.
by Sonic on Dec 14, 2009 9:34 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
OK, OK, OK, maybe owning was a little
over the top. Charlie mentioned two states in his press conference specifically where he had to recruit, Ohio and Kentucky. Charlie will also do all right in the South. He will have to get a good Offensive Coordinator though to do well with the players from that side of the ball. I am not worried about Charlie Strong one bit. If he had been such a catch, he would have landed a better job then UL regardless of who he was married to. Next year will tell the story on Strong’s recruiting ability. Most of the players this year already know where they are going. That tells me UL will not just turn around over night. By then we will have beaten them probably 5 in a row and Joker will be in place. If Strong does well, UL will just be a stepping stone for him. If Joker does well, he will be here a long time. I personally think Joker is a very good choice. His heart is at Kentucky and that can go along way. Joker gets a lot of critism for his play calling. I know I have yelled at the TV quite a bit, but we really don’t know if that is him or Brooks just being conservative. We have seen what he can do when he has some horses.
by Grasslands1 on Dec 14, 2009 10:02 AM EST up reply actions
Well...
this is something else we are in 100% agreement on…
I hope we beat them the next 5 years in a row, too…! – It wouldn’t even hurt my feelings if we went all UT/UK on them! :-)
The only real difference in us is in how easy we think it will be to make that happen.
My problems with Joker are fairly strong, and deep. Not that my mind cannot be changed, of course.
It is not so much the literal play calls that he made – although I think so many of them were abysmal- as the mindset that he revealed in his quotes that had lead to those calls. I watched footage of him at Tom Leach’s site, and elsewhere. And this is what I came away with:
1) Joker really does see the college game as coming down to Xs and Os, a sort of chess match between coaching staffs. Not as much a match between playmakers, and disparities in individual talents. A match-up of schemes. (See UT)
2) Following along with #1, Joker appears to have a disturbing, and possibly even bizarre, belief in players being more or less interchangeable. (See Miss St.)
3) I think he likes the lack of accountability right now. How many times have we said, as you just did, "Well… I guess we don’t really know if that bonehead mismanagement was Joker or Rich… or Randy…or one of the other assistants… or maybe one of the cheerleaders..or hey, Tom Leach has watched the whole game, why isn’t he calling down with some bright ideas… " I will be glad when all of the misdirection radiating from this program is performed by the players, out on the field.
4) When I did see him talk about the UT game it was all about… “well, we didn’t execute.. the play should have been a walk.” Which means: I did my job of devising a great scheme and making a great call, even if I did have one of my smallest guys blocking for one of my youngest and slowest— it was up to them to execute.
Well…. to me, that is pretty chickensht.
So….
No. It is not as much about literal play calling, as what I interpret his base mindset to be, given the limited footage of him that I have seen.
Yes. I can change my mind.
by Sonic on Dec 14, 2009 11:03 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Just Wondering
Do you thnk he has a chance at getting an offensive coordinator as successful and the head coach of the offense at Kentucky?
I believe the best offense Joker had was with Guy Morriss’ recruits There is that word again.
He is coaching and playing with his own right now. Check the offensive rankings at the NCAA site for the rankings in the top 120. I believe you’ll find us in the 90 range.
I have be correctly accused of having a 'football fetish'. You know, someone who doesn't think football is the warm up sport to basketball season.
Good Stuff
Good points Sonic.
And that margin was a total of 4 points this year.
I have be correctly accused of having a 'football fetish'. You know, someone who doesn't think football is the warm up sport to basketball season.
When did we 'own' them?
Since the new era of Kentucky – Louisville, or the Governor Cup, we were 4-5 against Louisville before Brooks and 3-4 during his time. Now which of those is ‘owning them’?
how can the Cardinals win those games without SEC type talent?
If you check their roster during the big years for them I think you’ll see some kids from the south on there.
I have be correctly accused of having a 'football fetish'. You know, someone who doesn't think football is the warm up sport to basketball season.
Let's See
The bottom line is there is excitemnent with the possibilities of what Srong MIGHT bring to the program. A new name, coach of a two National Champion defenses. Had been in the running in other head coaching jobs.
We got giddy about hearing that the Kentucky CIW was contacted to interview for a positon on the Oklahoma State staff. This resulted in the awarding of Coach In Waiting so he could continue his magic at Lexington.
I wish Joker all the success in the world. And with the new change in Louisville, he’s going to get to go head to head with Strong.
Joker has developed all the recruiting contacts in Kentucky with several years advantage. Let’s see who wins the state in recruiting. That should be a fair test as who the kids want to play for.
Kentucky being a bowl team four years running should give the Cats the edge.
I have be correctly accused of having a 'football fetish'. You know, someone who doesn't think football is the warm up sport to basketball season.
Charlie even said himself he couldn't get
a head job because is wife is white. He said it, not me. As long as UK out recruits UL in the south, he can have the Commonwealth, but he won’t. Strong should out recruit UK in the city of Louisville though. I think UK is past the point of taking the best in Kentucky if they can do better outside the state. Like this year, the talent level in Kentucky seems pretty week. Next years class seems better and UK will probably go after more than just one or two players.
Blame the boosters
after Rupp won a National Championship,they gave him a Cadillac.After Bear won a National Championship,they gave him a cigarette lighter.
Myths.
Bear never won a National Championship at UK. The voting was done before the bowl games and Oaklahoma won it even though UK beat them. Sargin did go back and award UK a National Championship but it is only recognized by that rating system. After UK basketball team was suspended from play, UK made a rule that you could not recruit outside the region. Bear saw the writing on the wall and bolted for Texas A+M. Russell Rice, the former athletic information director has cleared up a lot of the myths about UK’s sports history.
So
winning the Sugar Bowl and beating the AP #1 team in the nation,is not a National Championship?The NCAA says so.
The NCAA has never awarded a team the National Championship
in football. It is awarded by third party organizations. Read what I wrote and not what todays standards are for being #1. I am not saying it was right, it is just the way it was then. UK finished #7 in both the AP and Coaches poll in 1950, the two polls that were recognized at that time. The Sargarin ratings (not NCAA) retroactively gave UK the co-National Championship. The Sargarin ratings did not even exist in 1950.
From Wikipedia:
Because the championship team is not determined by an NCAA championship or tournament event, it has often been unofficially referred to as a “mythical national championship”. Since the NCAA, the sport’s governing body, does not determine or declare a national champion in this field, determination of such has often engendered controversy. A championship team is independently declared by various individuals and organizations, often referred to as “selectors”
For many years, the national champion of various polls were selected prior to the bowl games. The national champion was selected before bowl games as follows: AP (1936-64 and 1966-67), Coaches’ Poll (1950-1973), FWAA (1954), and NFF (1959-1970). In all other latter-day polls, champions were selected after bowl games.
Presently the winner of BCS Championship Game is automatically awarded the national championship of the Coaches’ Poll and the National Football Foundation. But this is not awarded by the NCAA.
Trust me Zoso, if we could brag about a National Football
Championship, I would be the first one to do it. The Sargarin ratings giving us one 50 years after the fact is just not that credible. But it’s all we have.
I think that the Charlie Strong hire is good for Louisville
AND good for UK. Anything that Louisville does to up the ante will be matched by UK and that just makes us that much better. Only real difference will be in the fact that if UL wins in the Big East, they will get more good publicity.While we toil at the feet of everyone with a better record in the SEC East.
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
Strong has never been a head coach
Can someone say Charlie Weis.
I put my money on, he goes up in flames.
No matter where you're at, there you are
I dunno blue.....Charlie has the right mentality for the job I think.
But I am curious to see what he can do with UL recruits and not Florida recruits…..but even better than that would be if he can manage to dispel the “you cannot recruit in Kentucky” myth
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
by ALLBLUCAT on Dec 14, 2009 4:23 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I don't know either.
I may have gone overboard on the Weis thing. I mean, you can’t extrapolate from one instance — should have known that.
But, the guy is unproven. His pedigree is good, but he is unproven. I’ll wait and see on all of this.
No matter where you're at, there you are
Determination and an unwillingness to settle for 2nd best would be the first things I
would want in a coach…..I think he brings both to the table, but as you said, we will have to wait and see
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
huh?
If the guy couldn’t coach would he be at Florida? I don’t think their record, defensive play or intensity with which his players perform was lacking. Do you think maybe he had some say in recruiting for the defense? You know, being the coordinator and all.
I have be correctly accused of having a 'football fetish'. You know, someone who doesn't think football is the warm up sport to basketball season.
Can't be as bad as Kragthorpe
First time I shot her, shot her in the side.
Hard to watch her suffer, but with the second shot she died...
Ok, your a 5 star football player
living in Florida, Georgia, Alabama, S.C., Ohio, TENN, or just anywhere for that matter, tell me why you would come to UK to play football? Go ahead, I will wait for your answer.
"Big fish in a little pond" syndrome???
just saying……maybe it will take kids that want to be “the man” the way Couch did……We owe that kid a lot for putting aside other offers from bigger schools to come here…..actually I am surprised he hasnt popped up as an assistant at UK yet.
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
Tim Couch sort of proves Grasslands' point.
He was a high level recruit that could have gone anywhere and he decided to stay with the local school that was within driving distance of home. The top kids in the deep south generally stay in the deep south. We, and other schools, get the two, three and occasional four star that did not go into one of the traditional southern powers’ goody basket.
Well, Couch was just an example of the attitude of the "big fish in a little pond" thing
lol….It could apply to anyone in any state……
Remember, we're having fun now!!!
Here's two
You think you have a better chance startiing at Kentucky.
You think your SEC caliber and you home state school over looked you.
I have be correctly accused of having a 'football fetish'. You know, someone who doesn't think football is the warm up sport to basketball season.
I think that we should be targeting the Big Ten
area. You walk in the door and ask the kid if they want to compete against the best. Tell them what we have done in the last 4 years. We are consistently going to bowls now. We have built a solid foundation. We have depth, we are now beating good teams with tradition in their house and now we need studs. How would you like to come to UK and beat the hell out of Florida, Alabama, Tennessee, Georgia and do it on national TV every week? It’s called selling and we need somebody that believes it and can sell it. We have completed phase I, now this would be phase II, and finally you will be able to go into Tenn. and Georgia, and SC, the Virginia’s and pluck some of their better talent and complete phase III. National Championship here we come.
Big Tenn Territory?
Why would a kid in Big Ten territory be interested in coming to Kentucky? First he grew up in that area and probably all he’s heard is about the Big Ten. And then there’s the MAC. And then the success Cincinnati has had over the last three years. Would you rather play in the Sugar Bowl or the Music City Bowl?
We can’t win the recruits in the state, we sure aren’t going to make an impression on those north of here.
I have be correctly accused of having a 'football fetish'. You know, someone who doesn't think football is the warm up sport to basketball season.
Because the kid might want to play
in the best conference in the land for a school that is not that far from home. Ohio has a ton of football talent and they have all heard of the SEC. Indiana and Illinois kids have to go somewhere to play for a good team that has a chance. I grew up in Big Ten territory but became a SEC fan. Kentucky kids are great to have when they are good enough. This years crop is pretty weak. Kentucky just doesn’t produce enough 4 and 5 star players to get you to the top. UK has to get them from somewhere. Cincinnati is a football hot bed and we should be able to get kids out of there. Indianapolis is a large city that has talent.
Question
Anyone know about the kid that got Mr. Football in Kentucky?
I have be correctly accused of having a 'football fetish'. You know, someone who doesn't think football is the warm up sport to basketball season.
From KSR
- A big congratulations is in order for Fort Campbell’s quarterback, Antonio Andrews, who was named Mr. Football. Andrews is not ranked by Rivals and has recived some light interest from UK, but will probably end up at a smaller D-1 school. One notable name he beat out is Simon Kenton’s Miles Simpson, a UK target whose future plans remain mysterious at this point.
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