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Big Blue Daily Mail -- John Wall Special Edition

This morning, I thought I would link around to what the Internet chatter is about the Wall eligibility questions.  I know it's the hot topic around the Big Blue Nation, and there are tons of questions that everyone has that have been asked an analyzed already by a number of people.

Plus, as usual, there are any number of UK detractors out there weighing in, and we are always interested in making fun of those guys and gals just because ... well, mocking them is fun!

This report will be all about Wall.  Later today, we'll be bringing you more news about the rest of the Big Blue Universe, plus coverage of the ULM/Kentucky game, plus Ken has a special post planned soon, plus ... a partridge in a pear tree?  Who knows, maybe even that.

So here we go ...

Star-divide

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Well....

It just goes on and on. I suspect as we get closer to the start of basketball season all these nay sayers will find other stories to write about besides all things UK. Let’s hope anyway. But, hey bring it on, because we in the Big Blue Nation can take it. Right people?

by UK1972 on Oct 23, 2009 10:22 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Embrace the hate ...

… as I implied last year, the worst is yet to come. Just wait until Calipari and UK start winning. It will be a free-for-all.

That said, I have utmost confidence that Sandy Bell and the gang are on the trail. I mean, if WE knew about Brian Clifton two years ago I sure as heck hope THEY knew when the kid verballed and then applied for admission, etc.

Note to handlers: YOU’RE KILLING YOUR KIDS’ CHANCES…

The Heart & Mind of the Big Blue Nation ...

by JL Blue on Oct 23, 2009 10:48 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

handlers/chances

here we go again!!!…and you are right…the “Wins” will feed their mania…Coach Cal and UK are fine…i just worry about JW, or any other kid out there facing the “Monster” (the NCAA)…

"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as much as you please."...Mark Twain.

by KYCatwoman on Oct 23, 2009 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

UK has known about this for months

We will be okay. We will be okay. :-)
UK’s compliance dept. will not allow the NCAA to say he is eligible and then say maybe not, IMO

GO BIG BLUE !!!

Blue... there is no other color to Bleed !!!

by a2d2 on Oct 23, 2009 10:54 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

This all plays into Cal's hands....

let me remind you all, having watched Cal up close and personal here in memphis, no one, and i mean NO ONE loves to play the “no one loves us”, “no one believes in us”, “its us against the world,” and so on as much as Cal. He will use all this attention to get the kids focused on bball…..

only one rule in my house - uk has to be your favorite college bball team

by memphis wildcat on Oct 23, 2009 10:54 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I put a lot of faith in you memphis,

when it comes to opinions on how Cal operates. You have a huge insight advantage there. He can use it as a focusing tool if he wants. It is fine by me :-)

Blue... there is no other color to Bleed !!!

by a2d2 on Oct 23, 2009 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

"Balloon Boy" is a right comparisson

Based on what I saw on ESPN’s ticker “Wall’s eligibility in question”, it made me think he wouldn’t be allowed to play, period, which scared the crap out of me. After reading about the allegations, I finally understood that his only “crime” was taking one too many visits to UK and questioning his coach’s involvement as an “agent” (and why does an AAU coach need to be an agent anyway?). Either way, he will not miss the entire season (based on these accusations alone), maybe only three or four games and that’s only if he doesn’t just have to pay his coach back for the trips to UK he took that were “unofficial”. In which case, “Well, ok, here’s your $200 bucks. Can I go make history now?”, not that big a deal.

This is just a case of the media over sensationalizing a story and making statements out of context just to stir up controversy. And in case you were wondering what games he might miss, here are our first four games: Campbellsville, Morehead, Clarion, and Miami of Ohio. Call me cocky, but I don’t think we’ll really need him for those first two weeks, NCAA. So, if it makes you feel better and it makes ESPN shut up then take away those four games, we’ll see your crying asses in the post season as SEC champions.

by BlowOutYourBlood on Oct 23, 2009 10:54 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Trivial Matters

I believe to show the support ASOB has for the University of Kentucky basketball program, we should all throw in and help Wall pay back the money he may have gotten from his agent/coach. We could hide the moe=ney in a pizza box and have it delivered to Wall on some rainy evening under the cover of darkness.
I’m down for a dollar.
Any one else?

by ParisGuy on Oct 23, 2009 11:37 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

i say we use emery overnight....

only one rule in my house - uk has to be your favorite college bball team

by memphis wildcat on Oct 23, 2009 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

heh

I’m in for a dollar. I’ll provide the tape so the money doesn’t fall out this time.

No matter where you're at, there you are

by cincyblue on Oct 23, 2009 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, we knew it was coming....the insults...the innuendo....

and to be honest, if UK knew there was an eligibility issue, I think they still go after Wall….3 games…truthfully, if I was Cal, I would have said it as soon as he declared, if I knew. I would have walked right up to the mike and said, ok….now that he has committed, we have to deal with this issue we found during his recruiting. We know what it is….it could mean a 3 game suspension, but we will deal with that if and when it happens. God Forsaken NCAA cannot distinguish between someone trying to violate the system and a kid trying to showcase his talent….maybe we should ban the AAU?

Remember, we're having fun now!!!

by ALLBLUCAT on Oct 23, 2009 11:48 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

…..or everyone can play by the rules. What a concept!!!

'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'

by HozeKing on Oct 23, 2009 6:02 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

Do you mean NCAA rules

the ones they change their minds on every time you turn around? The rules that punish the victims, not the guilty?

by kywineman on Oct 23, 2009 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The DBR snippet

Despite all the rationalizations, the summer (!) of glory, Kentucky fans, broadly speaking, haven’t really faced up to the possibility that while Calipari has them imagining heights they haven’t yet climbed together, he also has the potential to leave their program wrecked again. Maybe they should consider this a reality check.

I don’t think that’s so incendiary. The fact is that Calipari does have the potential to put us in another “Kentucky’s Shame” type situation. That’s not to say he will, but I’m not on the “no way it happens here!” bandwagon. Sure, his name was never brought up in the UMass and Memphis scandals, but you can’t tell me those incidents didn’t leave a bad taste in their fans’ mouths.

Obviously, this particular situation has nothing to do with Kentucky or Calipari and has “Wall Only” implications, which are apparently minor. But I’m not sipping Calipari’s jamba juice just yet.

Anything but Gatorade - yet another SEC sports blog

by Anything but Gatorade on Oct 23, 2009 11:57 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

i am sipping, but not drinking....

here is where is guess i finally come down on the issue of Cal.

given the type coach he is, he attracts more “ballers” than not (for lack of a better word). As a result, you have to take the good with the bad (the good being the player, the bad being the entourage, agent, aau coaches, parents with a hand out, etc).

We can all take the high road and say uk does not need to do that – that is fine, but that is EXACTLY what tubby did and you see where that got him. imo, he did not want to play the game and i respect him for moving on to a place where he could meet fan expectations without having to do something he felt uncomfortable doing.

That is not to say Cal or Tubby’s way is better than the other, but Cal’s approach is different and more aggressive – he is willing to do some things (and i do NOT mean illegal or unethical) that others do not do. i would argue switching his entire offensive philosophy late in his college career is one on court example…

There is a saying in my business that if you are trading stocks and you never lose, you are not trading enough. That is the way i look at college basketball – if you are not having to deal with issues such as the wall situation, then you are not going after the best players – it comes with the territory!!!

Now it becomes important that Cal controls the program and that you have a strong compliance department so that it does not get out of hand. i know hozeking was joking about SB being paid an incentive, but the nature of the game we(uk) are playing requires a strong compliance program – not necessarily for what might happen from within, but – as we see now – from the outside

the old saying is “if you play with fire, you will get burned” – i do not believe that to be necessarily true, but if i play with fire, you can bet i will have on some protection….

only one rule in my house - uk has to be your favorite college bball team

by memphis wildcat on Oct 23, 2009 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yessir

It DOES come with the territory.

I LOVE COOKING WITH WINE
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

by bluecrip on Oct 25, 2009 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just Curious Tru,

Down here, all of our AAU teams have to “raise money” to travel….we have tenderloin sales, pizza kits….pretty much anything they can do to raise money for their travel. Can any of that blow back on the kids that play???I mean, the kids do most of the fundraising, them and their parents, but coaches help too…..

Remember, we're having fun now!!!

by ALLBLUCAT on Oct 23, 2009 12:04 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

No ...

… not at all, unless the money goes into a kid’s pocket or something. Raising money to pay for travel is perfectly legal.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Oct 23, 2009 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I guess that leads to my next question,

the only way there is an eligibility issue is if the kid traveled and the agent paid for it right??

Remember, we're having fun now!!!

by ALLBLUCAT on Oct 23, 2009 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well ...

… or the agent is a coach. Then it becomes a case of an agent coaching a kid, which they are apparently forbidden to do. I think that’s where the biggest rub is, because Clifton not only coached D-One, it’s my understanding that he is also an (the?) owner.

Obviously, all the money becomes tainted then.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Oct 23, 2009 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

aau coaches pay for things out of pocket all the time...

they can’t help themselves as they, for the most part, love the kids they coach. furthermore, most of the kids have nothing.

the biggest factor, imo, is the agent issue. to me that is a problem that the aau did not properly oversee -however, uk has to step up and cannot pass the buck -which i do not think they will

only one rule in my house - uk has to be your favorite college bball team

by memphis wildcat on Oct 23, 2009 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agents AND tag-a-longs

The kids “handlers” that smell money.

And these kids, Wall included I suspect, can’t be expected to see through all of this. In Wall’s case, I’ve read AAU coach Clifton had a long relationship with him.

No matter where you're at, there you are

by cincyblue on Oct 23, 2009 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes ...

… and that does matter. But Wall also has the responsibility, ultimately, to protect his own eligibility. That’s just the way the rules are.

So if Wall knew Clifton was an agent and played for him anyway, that would be a problem for Wall, and UK to the extent UK expects him to be able to take the floor in Blue and White.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Oct 23, 2009 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Umm ...

… Not sure what you mean by this:

however, uk has to step up and cannot pass the buck -which i do not think they will

Pass what buck? UK has nothing to step up for. If his eligibility is in question, he shouldn’t play. But UK cannot lawfully assume his debt to the coach. That is a violation of NCAA legislation.

If Clifton paid for anything while Wall was playing for him and he was a registered agent, the Wall family must pay all that money back themselves.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Oct 23, 2009 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

you answered what i meant in your reply above..

there is just not enough people in the world taking personal responsibility for the consquences – whether its their “fault” or not.

I am not sure a high school junior should be expected to know if his coach was an agent as it seems clifton was the only one to have done it. .we (uk) can’t just say the aau is messed up for letting an agent coach – or clifton should not have registered and hurt wall’s eligibility, but you said it better:

So if Wall knew Clifton was an agent and played for him anyway, that would be a problem for Wall, and UK to the extent UK expects him to be able to take the floor in Blue and White.

only one rule in my house - uk has to be your favorite college bball team

by memphis wildcat on Oct 23, 2009 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

on the Caracter case.....

on a point i mentioned in an early blog about prior relationships -

it is interesting that part of the mitigating factor was a relationship prior to 9th grade.

although it is a reach to assume the ncaa will be consistent in its decision making, the fact that clifton was associated with wall since 9 years old (i believe that is what i have read) should make this easy to resolve.

of course, there will always be some that say coach cal should have know who wall was befriending at age 9……

only one rule in my house - uk has to be your favorite college bball team

by memphis wildcat on Oct 23, 2009 2:14 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm sure

Billy would have known since he would have been trying to get him to commit around then.

by kywineman on Oct 23, 2009 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Goop

That’s what this feels like trying to read and understand. I had an easy time finding Ryan Kelly. He may or may not be in the same window of time as Wall…so the circumstances need to be fully examined. The other D One players under Clifton may be in the same boat. I have lots of questions. How does AAU certify coaches? Or does AAU certify? Would that organization not have known of Clifton’s status? How did Baylor hire Clifton’s brother to head up player development? Did the university have concerns? Many early articles on Wall had him going to many, many schools based on prior contacts with both Cliftons.

How did D One generate income for Clifton? What does it mean to “own” D One? My only experience that might be similar was with my youngest son who played high-levels of soccer for a professional coach for several years. We paid a fee to the coach, paid our own travel and our son’s expenses. Tournament fees were divided among the team players. Player cards were individual expenses. The coach made tapes for colleges to review. We purchased these. Through all of this was the knowledge the player/family was responsible for staying eligible for college NCAA play. A form was filled out as a ninth grader for the NCAA clearing house. Perhaps AAU runs in a similar manner.

My problem with even the level of soccer we participated in was that it was expensive and excluded players who were good enough but they could not afford the process. Our soccer organization had a scholarship fund we all contributed to and those who needed were encouraged to apply. That kept the player clean with the guidelines. Some players were still reluctant to ask for the help they needed.

I don’t mean to sterotype anyone but I can’t see many of the AAU players having money to participate without a lot of help.

I agree with a prior comment that this could have been different even in the news cycles if Coach Cal and UK had just offered the information on their own. Heaven forbid that they allow Pat Forde to “uncover” anything like this again. Maybe Mr. Forde wil gain some credibility by expanding the story to be about Clifton and not John Wall. One can wish…but I shall look for pigs flying.

by CAWebb on Oct 23, 2009 3:05 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

More Goop

I have to get a life. While my head was still on KY…I went to read a couple of pages. Ran onto this

http://lisa-olson.fanhouse.com/2009/10/21/cloud-over-rick-pitino-inescapable/#

Toward the bottom Coach Rick explains he had “50 worse things at Providnet…100 worse things happen at Kentucky”. Perhaps Forde will investigate this.

by CAWebb on Oct 23, 2009 3:16 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Heh.

Nice article.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Oct 23, 2009 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, But ...

Okay. John Wall is an otherworldly talent, but let us not forget another guard who signed with UK. Eric Bledsoe could have gone elsewhere. In fact, his high school coach and others encouraged that. Instead, Bledsoe chose UK To me that speaks volumes about the young man’s drive and desire. Sort of a Randall Cobb type maybe?

by Ornery1951 on Oct 23, 2009 8:24 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

The Real Worry Here

has nothing to do with Wall’s guilt or Calipari’s actual record. It is that the NCAA has absolute say over all so the facts surrounding the case mean nothing. They could decide to punish Calipari because they do not like him or simply because. They could re-instate Wall and erase every game from the books years from now. It has happened and it will surely happen again. The only question is whether it does in this case and since facts do not matter there will be no way to know until it is too late.

by LyricSmith on Oct 23, 2009 8:43 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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