Billy G.....wouldn't it be neat?

by UKlvrJM on Oct 15, 2009 1:57 PM EDT Comment 34 comments

I guess we've known this was coming for months....it was just a matter of how much, but seeing in print that Billy Gillispie will get approximately $3million more from UK is just stunning.

I've racked my brain for similar examples of sports figures who've been so unbelievably bad at what they did and still managed to get a boat load of money out of the process. In sports it's usually a high draft pick..Brian Bosworth and Ryan Leaf come to mind....who just don't pan out but as for as coaches, Billy G might have started a new industry.

I laughed at reading his attorney say he expected Billy to have a bright future in coaching. Coaching what? Everyone deserves a second chance and as Michael Vick is showing...at least currently....some take advantage of the second chance and turn themselves around. With Billy G it's hard to imagine that he'll suddenly become a model citizen and realize that coaches don't have to be 24/7 jerks to everyone around them.

I won't even ask the obvious question of why one of the most storied programs in college basketball history with all the supposed advantages that UK has, had to offer this guy a buyout....well I guess I did ask it didn't I!!!

But to the question......wouldn't it be neat.......at least in UK dreamland.....for Billy's DUI conviction (yeah I'm assuming that) to result in a $3million fine and community service as say the UK towel boy for 2 years?

Hey....a guy can dream can't he??

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The Memorandum was a contract

The contract called for a buyout if terminated early. The two sides negotiated a smaller buyout. Why Kentucky fans think Billy wasn’t entitled to the money in the grown up world of sports, I’ll never know.

As to his future in coaching. He did just fine at two smaller schools where he was the big fish in a little pond. I see no reason to think that he couldn’t survive and even thrive in that environment again. Clearly, he wasn’t a match for the demands of the UK job, but he has shown that he can succeed in the right circumstances.

Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."

by chirop1 on Oct 15, 2009 3:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

agreed.....

Blue... there is no other color to Bleed !!!

by a2d2 on Oct 15, 2009 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Why?

Not questioning the legality of the contract/memorandum or what ultimately was agreed he was owed. I question why this coach was EVER given anything like that in his contract.

Yes, he’d had some success at two much smaller programs but at the time he was at best considered an up and coming coach known as a good recruiter. Why was this relative no body given this kind of buy out by one of the largest programs in college basketball?

Is he entitled to take this money as you say in the “grown up world of sports”….obviously yes but the underlying question is why this was allowed in that contract. Would Donald Trump marry an up and coming babe and not have her sign a prenup?? It appears to me and I think at least one or two other’s that Barhart was scrambling for a coach and just agreed to anything.

As for his coaching career……I guess if Southern Mississippi would hire Larry Eustachy anything is possible. FYI…..maybe you should read some of John Clay’s work about what BIlly’s right circumstances might be.

by UKlvrJM on Oct 15, 2009 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Why was it EVER in his contract?

I’m no sports contract scholar, but my understanding is that it is a very standard clause in any contract. They often go both ways, coaches will often have to pay the school if they leave early to take a new job. see Rodriguez, R and Boelien, J…. bot of which can be cross referenced under Michigan and West Virginia

I would agree that Barnhart was scrambling for a coach. He was caught unawares when Tubby left and had all his eggs in the Billy Donovan basket. In retrospect, I think we’re prettty lucky that basket fell through.

Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."

by chirop1 on Oct 15, 2009 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Unawares?

Well Barnhart had been pressuring Tubby (FYI…..in my humble opinion, Pitino would NEVER have won the championship Tubby did with those players) over recruiting and his staff for some time so not sure that he was caught totally unaware.

You’re right about those clauses but they’re typically intended to protect the University as you correctly pointed out with Rodriguez and West Virginia….or even closer to home with Coach C. and Memphis. I can’t think of any other example where the school has paid after firing a coach unless it’s the remainder of his salery.

As I understand it, this would have been in addtion to his remaining salary but it may include both. I can understand agreeing to a crazy figure like that for Roy WIlliams or Coach K but this…….a. seems silly to have agreed to pay to him and b. seems like an excessive amount even assuming that this was standard in any contract.

I think for many UK fans…..the bad taste Gillispie left accounts at least a little for the instant love that Coach C. has found. That’s and he’s obviously such a good fit.

by UKlvrJM on Oct 15, 2009 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not True About Barnhart And Tubby

Tubby’s staff (Hobbs, Hanson, Rigot) recruited the #1 class in 2004, #1 JuCo in 2005, Top 15 class in 2006, and was going to sign Top 10 class in 2007.

That staff was 131-40 (76.6%) at UK – better than UK all-time W-L (%) record.

I’m not debating whether it was time for Tubby to leave. But it’s UNTRUE that Barnhart was pressuring him about his coaching staff.

by FortyYearCatFan on Oct 15, 2009 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Different Memory

Well living in Louisville, what I remember at the time was a LOT of pressure on Tubby to get rid of Reggie. I think there was also issues with Saul coming on the staff but again…….I don’t think Barnhart was caught off guard other than maybe Tubby took steps himself.

by UKlvrJM on Oct 15, 2009 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

U R Speculating

I’m not. There was no pressure from Mitch on staff. Those were website rumors, not facts. No coach lets an AD pick his coaching staff, anywhere.

Mitch was completely off guard – he was not AT ALL prepared when OTS left.

by FortyYearCatFan on Oct 15, 2009 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He may not have been prepared Forty,

but there is no way he didn’t have some idea it was going on…..no way I buy that one. Makes no sense. Tubby had heard the rumblings….and if he heard them then Mitch did too…….you may convince me that Mitch didn’t have a replacement handy, but there is no way he did not know there was something afoot.

Remember, we're having fun now!!!

by ALLBLUCAT on Oct 15, 2009 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I Believe Tubby Decided To Leave In Fall Of 2006

Not just a guess but a reason that I think that.

Mitch was caught off guard in March 2007.

by FortyYearCatFan on Oct 15, 2009 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree on your humble opinion, but it really isn't germaine to the discussion

(and to steal a line from a James Bond movie… “What have the damn Germans got to do with any of this?!!?”)

I’m aware of several instances of schools paying fired coaches. Generally it comes up in the discussion on hiring new coaches. IIRC, when Alabama fired Mike Shula there was a payment made and when Auburn fired Tubervile last year.

The agreed upon amount was not in addition to his salary. It was $1.5 million for every year remaining on the contract. He had four years left, hence the $6 million dollar figure.

Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."

by chirop1 on Oct 15, 2009 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

??

I think you’re making my point. Generally what these coaches get after they’re fired is all or a portion of their remaining salary…..not a buy out on top of that. That was his contention that he was owed the salary plus the buy out.

Bottom line…..if you or I or anyone else I know of other than a college coach performed our job like he did……we wouldn’t get anything but a kick on the way out the door.

by UKlvrJM on Oct 15, 2009 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It happens in

Corporate America all the time. It happens in Pro sports (Calipari and Pitino) also. BG had a long term contract that was waiting to be signed when he jumped to take the UK job.

by Grasslands1 on Oct 16, 2009 12:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I thought that line was from Smokey and The Bandit???

lol……Jackie Gleason does it much better…….hehehe

Remember, we're having fun now!!!

by ALLBLUCAT on Oct 15, 2009 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I remember it from Live and Let Die

The intellectual black sherrif uses the word when talking to the backwoods hick Sherrif J.W. Pepper who responds with the line about the Germans.

Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."

by chirop1 on Oct 16, 2009 7:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

U R Correct

Mitch did not have successor(s) in mind when Tubby left in March 2007.

AD should ALWAYS have coaching replacements in mind. Mitch should have 2 or 3 possibilities RIGHT NOW should Calipari leave.

by FortyYearCatFan on Oct 15, 2009 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Totally Agree!!

by UKlvrJM on Oct 15, 2009 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No, I don't think it would be neat

if he was fined $3 million for a DUI conviction.

What about Mr. Factory Worker who’s convicted of a DUI? Also a $3 million fine? Or do you want a justice system that fines people based on their net worth?

Not for me – no thanks.

Gillispie is not a bad person or a bad coach. He did not perform well at UK, for a multitude of reasons, and for it he lost his job. Obviously, he also has personality, anger, and drinking problems he needs to work out.

I wish him the very best in his recovery and that he can get his career back on track. I feel confident that he’s tough enough to do just that – it may take time, it may take a low D1 or even assistant job first, but I don’t think competitive NCAA basketball has seen the last of Mr. Gillispie.

It’s immature and just wrong to wish the man ill will in his future. Regardless of what you think of his personality or coaching abilities, and notwithstanding that at UK he did not succeed, he still put his heart and soul into his time here, and for that I thank him.

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.

by blbskue on Oct 15, 2009 4:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

You're obviously at better person

than Billy G. or myself. I think maybe you should read a little of John Clay’s info on Billy and what he did to the players during his “coaching” time here.

That’s not to mention all the “rumors” coming out of Lexington the entire time he was here. I wish I had a $ for each time I defended Billy….telling the story of him giving money to the lady who needed to get to her father’s funeral.

Maybe you didn’t witness his behavior on ESPN or hear him give Tom Leach a tough time over the most simple questions that could be asked……I hope you didn’t because if you care anything about UK, it was simply unbelievable that this guy would have anything to do with the program.

The $3million fine was intended as a tonge in cheek commentary on modern sports and the craziness that currently exists.

As for his future…..I’m the father of 3 and if ANY of the reports of how he treated the UK players are correct……he should never be allowed to coach a men’s drinking team let alone college age or younger people again!!!!!!!!

by UKlvrJM on Oct 15, 2009 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Furthermore!!!

Still chewing on what you said. I respect your opinion but just wanted to point out a few things.

FIrst, I see you’re an attorney but apparently you don’t practice family law because anyone who’s gone through a divorce with kids will tell you that the process is all about net worth. In fact the more I think about it……what you said was silly. A Cleveland Brown was fined over $1000 for not paying for a $3 room service bottle of water…..the NBA and all sports fine primarily on net worth……does a jury verdict on any suit not consider the net worth of the company or individual being sued?

Second, HE IS A BAD COACH…..where were you for two years watching us struggle to play man-to-man with primarily zone players……watching crazy substitution paterns…..watching NO adjustments at all during games?

Finally, maybe I’m just a small person but I do wish him ill. I hope to NEVER hear his name mentioned in connection to anything involving college or high school sports. As I said earlier, people do deserve a second chance and so does he……but maybe you were asleep at the wheel……..this is his 3rd DUI arrest and I’ll submit based on what I’ve read that the only reason he’s going to rehab is to try to minimize the penality for this DUI.

I guess I’m a jerk……..my ex-wife certainly thinks so but I’m pretty sure my kids don’t!

by UKlvrJM on Oct 15, 2009 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re:

A – treament of players – see above, “personality and anger issues” to be worked out. There is no evidence he treated any player badly during his first season. His demons appear to have gotten the better of him, and he acted like an ass. Doesn’t mean he can’t change, and he wasn’t Bobby Knight.

B – Saw Edwards/Leach/etc. Doesn’t make him a bad person or a bad coach. He’s not good with the media.

C – Family law has to take money into account – i.e., calculating child support and alimony can ONLY be done by considering the relative earning power of the parties. That doesn’t mean money should be factor in CRIMINAL penalties. And no, in a perfect world money would not influence CIVIL verdicts against companies or individuals. In practice, it may at times, but only when punitive damages are at stake, and even then the net worth of the defendant plays a smaller part than you intimate. With the exception of punitive damages, civil verdicts are based on actual damages, which much be proven the same as any other element in a case. A jury can’t just award $$$ out of its ass because a mean corporation has lots of money unless there is a basis for awarding said damanges. Again, however, the distinction is civil vs. criminal – nowhere in our penal code, state or federal, does or should the net worth of the accused have any effect on his or her punishment.

D – Your comment about the Cleveland Browns player carries no weight – that was a fine levied by the NFL. Again, the NCAA, NBA, NFL, etc. is free to fine heavily if the one being fined has lots of $$$. The criminal justice system is not so equipped, nor should it be.

E – No, I don’t think he is a bad coach. Like I said in my OP, he greatly underperformed here, and for it he was fired, the same as in any other career. He did good work at his previous coaching jobs, and I’ll submit that if given a chance in the future, he can do a good job elsewhere.

F – Alcohol – he has been arrested on suspicion of DUI 3 times. No conviction or plea for such on the first 2, and no conviction as of yet or plea on the most recent. Regardless, it appears that he has a problem with alcohol dependency, and it also appears he’s getting help. Care you cite an actual news story (hell, I’ll even take a blog post or comment) to support your comment that “the only reason he’s going to rehab is to try to minimize the penality [sic] for this DUI?”

G – Because he might be an alcoholic, he shouldn’t be permitted to coach at the high school or college level? Why? If he works out his demons, both from alcohol and personality/anger (which I submit might be an extension of his potential alcoholism), he shouldn’t be permitted to work in his chosen field? I can think of no other professions where this is the case.

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.

by blbskue on Oct 16, 2009 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Let him coach your kids then!

As I said I respect your opinion………well actually after you said you didn’t think he was a bad coach I really can’t say that. I guess what I should say is I really don’t care what your opinion is. Start a thread about what a great person and coach he is if you’d like…that’s the great thing about our wonderful country…everyone gets to voice their opinion.

by UKlvrJM on Oct 17, 2009 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It’s immature and just wrong to wish the man ill will in his future

I absolutely agree 100%.

I wish Billy G nothing but the best and hope he gets his life in order and finds peace.

It is not worth an intelligent man’s time to be in the majority. By definition, there are already enough people to do that.

by kentuckygirl0724 on Oct 17, 2009 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well if you actually read what I said I didn't wish him ill.

To me that would be wishing some bad event to happen to him and I didn’t. What I said was that I hope to never see his name associated with coaching any college or high school. That’s my opinion and since I started this thread, I’m not going to apologize that I feel that way. Don’t know if you have kids but if you think an alcoholic jerk should be allowed to coach kids…..well I not going to type what I’m thinking.

by UKlvrJM on Oct 17, 2009 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

"Finally, maybe I’m just a small person but I do wish him ill"

Your words.

It is not worth an intelligent man’s time to be in the majority. By definition, there are already enough people to do that.

by kentuckygirl0724 on Oct 18, 2009 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Best For UK And Gillispie To Put Their Past Behind Them And Move On

The sooner, the better.

by FortyYearCatFan on Oct 15, 2009 5:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

UK wanted to pay him nothing… Gillispie wanted the full $6mil.

$3 million is exactly where I figured it’d end up. (I just wish I could have been the attorney to net $260k for filing one or two briefs!)

Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."

by chirop1 on Oct 15, 2009 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

ditto Forty :-)

Blue... there is no other color to Bleed !!!

by a2d2 on Oct 15, 2009 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Something we can all agree on!!!!!

Go Cat’s and good luck to a long career for Coach C!!

by UKlvrJM on Oct 15, 2009 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Two pro coaches

that received large sums of money, to the point of becoming not rich but wealthy, for not doing a good job were Pitino and Calipari. The point of wealthy is based on net worth of eight million dollars.

by Grasslands1 on Oct 15, 2009 7:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

My two cents

We could do the woulda coulda shoulda all day, – but fact is that it’s said and done.

My thoughts on Billy: I don’t have any, really, one way or the other. I felt at the time of hire he didn’t have enough experience to be hired, but had high hopes – he really DID say the right things then. I also felt he should have been fired before this season – just a gut thing, no real reason.

He’s an alcoholic – I don’t have much sympathy (sorry if that offends) because he kept doing the same things over and over. BUT, If he truly is getting help, then more power to him.

I don’t wish the man ill – but I won’t mouth any platitudes either.

Honestly, I’m just too blasted excited about the upcoming season to even worry or think about Billy G. anymore =)

by Bkocats on Oct 16, 2009 10:51 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

AMEN

“Honestly, I’m just too blasted excited about the upcoming season to even worry or think about Billy G. anymore =)”

exactly : )

by blue kentucky girl on Oct 16, 2009 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Amen....Amen

:-)

Blue... there is no other color to Bleed !!!

by a2d2 on Oct 16, 2009 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ditto!!!

Twas the afternoon before Midnight Madness and all through the workforce, not a creature was stirring because they were all thinking about 7:30 tonight!!!!!!!!

The last two years we got coal in our stockings…..I think Santa is going to bring something much better this year!!!!

by UKlvrJM on Oct 16, 2009 12:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs