Are we fooling ourselves?

by tenken on Jan 6, 2009 11:32 PM EST Comment 32 comments

As a Kentucky fan I have justified the poor performances of our freshman as well "just being freshman". Well I just watched Arkansas freshman do excellent. They will be a force to be reckoned with. I am wondering why our newbies cannot do as well. Now i will say that their point guard is amazing but I think he also had some crazy playing going on but made up for it two fold by some amazing moves. Much like Jodie Meeks. I just want to know why OUR freshman cannot perform this well. Yall, Arkansas was picked SIXTH! IN THE SEC WEST! They just picked off two top ten teams. Texas did have a poor three point shooting night but besides that they were great. Good in the paint and awesome defense. So it wasn't a fluke. So again can someone tell me why our newbies cannot do this well? Also, I don't care if Billy brings home three NC banners. I want John Pelphrey to come home!

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People Mature at Different Rates

And we have had freshmen that played well out of the gate. Patterson being the latest example. I like Pelphrey too and wish him well …..unless we are playing him.

by LyricSmith on Jan 7, 2009 2:23 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Pelphrey can ...

… only “come home” if Gillispie fails, or goes to the NBA. I don’t wish either fate on any Kentucky coach.

Given that choice, I wish Pelphrey a long, happy career in Arkansas.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Jan 7, 2009 6:13 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

I now live in Arkansas and have come to embrace the enthusiastic fans of the Razorback nation. There seems to a lot of similarities,most notably, a single large state university (yes, I’m ignoring Lville) and no competition from in-state pro teams. Arkansas is their pro team much like UK is our pro team. These people are very zealous, ALMOST as much as the Cat fans and they deserve a good coach like Pelphrey. A strong Arkansas program is good for Kentucky and I still think they were a great addition to the SEC. Prior to them joining there was no perennial powerful basketball program to challenge KY and keep us on our toes. Hopefully, JP will get the program back on track and resume what could be our best rivalry.

by hoboat33 on Jan 7, 2009 6:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

To answer your question ...

… no, we aren’t fooling ourselves. Different players develop at different rates, and the system or situation often dictates that rate.

Arkansas played well last night, but they have lots of vulnerabilities that will most likely be exposed. Texas played a very poor game, nowhere near their ability. Arkansas had something to do with that, but Texas went a long way toward beating themselves.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Jan 7, 2009 6:17 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Freshman

Fortson had at least 6 turnovers as of the 15 minute mark. Not sure how many he had after that.
The difference in the two sets of freshman can be attributed to need. Arkansas lost so many players they have two freshman starting in their backcourt. Logging more minutes of course it’s going to look like they are developing faster. UK doesnt need AS MUCH for this set of freshman to come on as quickly.

DEEETROIT BASKETBALLL!!!

by davw83 on Jan 7, 2009 8:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

considering

last night was the first game I watched from Texas I have to disagree. I haven’t looked at any stats either but their biggest downfall last night was the three point shooting. Everything else looked good. But what I guess I was trying to say is that their freshman OVERALL not just last night have seemed to just play well. Although, they almost gave the game back to Okie last week. I just have my doubts about these freshman right now(meaning our freshman). I don’t like some of the attitudes that I am seeing. I don’t like that they want things handed to them without earning them. I don’t place the blame on Billy either. I think he will get them to that point if they will listen to him. But I just found it interesting. I think there is an interesting point about some of these recruits that are brought into teams. We seem to get (even with Tubby) selfish premadonnas that have learn the hard way what TEAMWORK is all about. I saw Fortison make some crazy selfish shots last night, but I think I saw alot of team ball passing and him feeding the post last night.

Also about Pel………….I just meant I wish he would come home. I love him. I have for years. I mean for me as a Kentucky fan its a dream. Pel knows what Kentucky ball means to us and I have a feeling that it would be more then just a job to him. His love of kentucky basketball would help him idenify with us. His recruiting….lol. All he would have to do is tell of his glory days and how people revere you up in those hollers. No one could tell it better then he. Without all that said, I would never wish bad luck on BG just so John would come. I am sick of bad years at UK. My wish is that BG does so well that he goes pro and then Pel comes. But something tells me that Pel maybe would not. If he is in a good situation at Arkie and is happy he may not come. He is loved here. Why mess that up?

One more thing…….BG is the closest thing that we have had when it comes to a hometown boy coaching. Meaning that he loves UK basketball and has made it his life. I love and appreciate that. Pel is just my dream guy for Kentucky. Fairytale story for me I guess.

by tenken on Jan 7, 2009 9:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

BG

Could win 7 national championships in a row and never get a nod from an NBA team.
BG will never coach in the NBA. His entire system would have to change radically.
IMO no matter how successfull he is at the college level he is not the type of coach to be successfull at the pro level.

DEEETROIT BASKETBALLL!!!

by davw83 on Jan 7, 2009 10:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

Benching Carmelo (or whoever) because he didn’t like the attitude during practice would not fly in the NBA. He’s not going to be able to boss around a 30 year old man like he was a high school freshman.

the REAL fake Mr. Bob Dobalina
Formerly known as "senowen"

by bluesquire on Jan 7, 2009 11:05 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Ricky P might have a word abou tthis too :-)

Changing how you think will change what you think.

by wilson452 on Jan 7, 2009 12:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree..

..with what you say about the Arkansas win last night.

Personally, I think the heart and determination of the Arkansas team is very admirable and not to take anything away from their win (for my own selfish reasons, I’m actually quite glad they have recently beaten two top ten teams, that way, when we march on down to Fayetteville and win : ), it will be oh-so-sweet!) — I just think that heart and determination is what ultimately won them the game last night against Texas. IMO, Arkansas certainly didn’t have the most talent on the floor last night, not by a long shot.

by BigSkyCat on Jan 7, 2009 3:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Jury is still out

But I think by the end of this season,we will know alot more about BG.What it appears is that BG is a system coach,and not a players coach.For the long term,system coaches seem to fare better overall.

by -Zoso- on Jan 7, 2009 6:29 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Arkansas Frosh

Didn’t play all that well. The Hogs’ veterans played well in 2nd half to get the W over Texas.

by FortyYearCatFan on Jan 7, 2009 6:53 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Can I have some statistics to support your claim, please?

Just kidding…didn’t even watch the game.

by mrmondaynite on Jan 7, 2009 9:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Lots Of TO By Fortson

And several bricks, too.

Rotnei Clarke bricked a few more.

by FortyYearCatFan on Jan 7, 2009 10:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Clark

Also had one really crappy turnover where he just threw it to the other team. It reminded me of our freshman.

DEEETROIT BASKETBALLL!!!

by davw83 on Jan 7, 2009 11:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

not

just talking about last night. talking about overall. I have watched three games and kept up with them through the news here and reading some articles. I am very impressed.

by tenken on Jan 7, 2009 9:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree

I watched them against Oklahoma and a bit last night, but also a game or two against lesser competition, and I think they look very good. No, they’re not a top 10 team or anything, but in a weak SEC I think they have just as much a chance as UK, Tennessee, or Florida to win the SEC. They should dominate the SEC W, with LSU being their only real problem.

by blbskue on Jan 7, 2009 12:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

EXACTLY

John literally dictated every move, pass and shot in the final 3. He had to because Fortson was freaking him out.

I honestly would not trade for him from our players. I was a nervous wreck watching him.

A side point to this comment is that John dictated so closely the exact movements that got the win. NICE!

Changing how you think will change what you think.

by wilson452 on Jan 7, 2009 12:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

key

there to is that John has the ears and hearts of that team. I love it.

by tenken on Jan 7, 2009 1:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Uh, yeah.

I’m also going to say that just because Arkansas recently got a couple of high-profile wins and they have some freshmen that are logging major minutes, that certainly doesn’t mean I am going to start doubting our freshmen or my coach. Not for a minute. And yes, Fortson had me on the edge of my seat too, and not in a good, exciting kind of way. : )

I like the idea of players taking on the values of their coach and of course, listening to their coach. However, I’m also a bit skeptical of a team and some of it’s players when a coach has to orchestrate each and every play like Pelphrey did last night and the fact that he basically had to beg and plead with one of his players (remember that ill-advised three toward the end that Fortson was just dying to take?) to make the right decision. I think it’s wonderful if you have a fabulous coach and the on-the-court personality of the team becomes an extension of that coach’s personality; I just think it could become dangerous if they are never taught to think on their own. There will come a time when Pelphrey isn’t there to pull all the strings — will his team be able to make the right decision on their own?

by BigSkyCat on Jan 7, 2009 3:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

uh well

they are freshman and I am sure John is professional enough to know that. And did I say that I was skeptical of BG. I think I said quite the opposite.

by tenken on Jan 7, 2009 5:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

"And did I say that I was skeptical of BG. I think I said quite the opposite."

Thanks for clearing that up about being "skeptical" about Coach Gillispie.

I apologize if I misunderstood you, it‘s just that when I read the following words of yours, I really had to wonder…..

Also, I don’t care if Billy brings home three NC banners. I want John Pelphrey to come home!

Pel is just my dream guy for Kentucky. Fairytale story for me I guess.

My wish is that BG does so well that he goes pro and then Pel comes.

I can see that you are very high on John Pelphrey, and I totally get that, really. Who wouldn’t be. But, I still can’t really be a current UK fan and support that. Sorry.

You see, I’m funny, and maybe I’m taking your words out of context, but, I want Coach Gillispie to succeed at UK for totally different reasons. I want him to succeed so that Kentucky will be a force to reckoned with once again on the national college basketball stage, and I want him to succeed so that all high school players will talk about Kentucky and will covet scholarship offers from Kentucky and UK will once again be the beginning and the end all of college basketball. To be totally candid, I have never once wanted Coach Gillispie to succeed at UK just so that he can move on and for someone else to come in. Silly me.

by BigSkyCat on Jan 7, 2009 9:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Not

sure what your problem is but yeah you are totally taking me out of context. I like Billy G. I like what he is doing for our program. But you see I love Pel. LOVE HIM. Not sure how old you are but I was rooting for Pel when he was at UK. I cried when he cried at the Duke game. I followed his career since he left Ky. He is MY ALLTIME favorite player. So it should make sense that I would want him to come home someday to the premier coaching job of all time. Look at West Virginia and their coach. Didn’t Bob Huggins play there? I mean its a dream job to coach where you play for most. Especially for a Kentucky boy who lived Kentucky basketball. Now I could be totally wrong and he could want to stay as far away from Ky but as I fan I want him here too because I just think it would be poetic.

BG will succeed here and I hope he does. But lets face it, tenure just isn’t in the cards the way it used to be. We could be talking ten years down the road. I just meant that its a “fairytale” type thing.

Now you can infer that I am not a true fan, but that is hogwash(pardon the pun). Because I am a fan of my beloved Blue I want to get the warm and fuzzies if and when John puts the blue on and takes on the job. But its not nice to infer that someone isn’t a fan because they have a fantasy about a former beloved player coaching at the school that he helped get back on the map.

Again for the record…………I am sick of the down in doldrums that UK has been in the past few years and I am ready for BG to get us out of it!!!!!

by tenken on Jan 7, 2009 10:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I understand you completely.

I don’t know whether even the last few National Championships meant as much to me as that loss in the regional finals to [P]uke University, because it meant we were BACK.

It was sweeter still because we did it with players (disproportionately Kentucky boys like John) who knew what they were getting into when they agreed to play for a program on probation, and still said that it meant so much to wear that uniform that they were coming here regardless.

I was among those who wept with John, and often still do, at what they accomplished that season. It reminds me of watching my father cry whenever he watched episodes of The Waltons; the nostalgia is just overwhelming. It gets me every time I enter Rupp — BAM — just to see those beautiful jerseys hanging up there in the rafters. It all comes back.

I agree that there is an intangible that inures to the benefit of any player like Pelphrey whose ultimate experience as an athlete was to play on a team of that personality, where every player puts team above self and plays as much through the heart as through anything else. That experience (which most players will never have) makes you a better coach, because it forever colors your concept of how the game can best be played with any given roster of talent. I am not at all surprised to find that John’s Arkansas team is playing like the one he played on at UK, beating top teams with much more putative talent, when the experts say they have no chance. John has been there before.

Learning coaching at the feet of one Richard Pitino (and later Billy Donovan) didn’t hurt, either. That club is getting ever larger (are we all watching what Herb is doing at Arizona State?).

John is still quite young as far as head coaches go, and unless he has some type of total collapse at Arkansas, or Travis Ford’s star outshines him at Oklahoma State, he will one day coach at the University of Kentucky. I am not anxious for that day to be anytime soon, for the reasons stated by others above, but when it comes I know I will relish it.

by Ken Pomeroy on Jan 9, 2009 5:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I am not doubting BCG either

One day he may not be our coach. “IF” John continues his trajectory he will become our coach.

Head to head today, I am happy with what we have.

Yes you have to build a team that needs little in game specific direction during play but that is called NBA. The fact that they “needed” his direction is not a good thing. the fact that they took it and he knew what to say and it worked is a great thing.

Changing how you think will change what you think.

by wilson452 on Jan 7, 2009 6:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Razorpelphries

They looked good last night, personally… I wouldn’t want Fortson playing at UK. I almost changed the channel last night as I flipped over to it because I saw him from the back and thought it was a women’s game. Seriously. Even when they panned out and I saw all the players, it sort of looked like his jersey even fit him like a woman’s jersey (hanging loose across the chest, etc). I don’t want that in blue.

That said… I hate that we whiffed on Rotnei Clark.

Pelphry is going to have Arkansas ranked next week, and I honestly think that with the game in Fayetteville the Arkansas game will be one of our few losses in conference play this year.

Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."

by chirop1 on Jan 7, 2009 6:53 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I

know what you mean. The first time I watched them, I was flipping through the channels and thought it was a women’s game too. Then my son came in and sat down and sat “mom why are you watching a woman’s game”. LOL!!!!!!

But I would like his basketball skills at UK!

by tenken on Jan 7, 2009 9:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes, yes, and yes to what you've said.

I hate that we missed out on Rotnei. “Who’s going to score besides Pat and JM” is getting old.

And Fortson does have a bit of a femmy vibe to him, which you aptly referenced thus: “I don’t want that in blue.” What a hoot!

by Ken Pomeroy on Jan 9, 2009 5:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I would put Fortson in a UK uniform anytime

I could care less what he looks like or how his uniform fits him. I care about how well he plays and from what I’ve seen of him he is a whiz!! He came into the college game buff and sporting a whole slew of passing skills that have yet to show up on the UK squad. He is quick, intense and can wow a crowd at any moment. I have yet to see any “wow”-ing going on with any of our guards. Meeks has some wow factor but his usually occur within himself. Fortson makes wow plays that involve others most often.

Earlier in the season or preseason I suggested that UK would kill Arkansas because of Arkansas’s youth and depleted squad. I now, take that back and say it will be a fairly even contest. It may even be a game for the ages! With all that said there are a LOT of Arkansas fans that are worried that if Gillispie doesn’t pan out that we’ll snag Pelphrey from them like we did Sutton. So that means that a lot of Arkansas fans are rooting for UK to do well as long as UK isn’t playing Arkansas, just so we don’t come in a swoop Pelphrey up.

by bluecrip on Jan 7, 2009 8:45 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Fortson is really, really good

…especially when you consider he’s only a freshman.

He really excels at getting into the lane and he’s great at creating opportunities for other players. He’s the perfect type of player for Pel’s system. He did play a little out of control at times last night, but I think a lot of that was due to the intensity and magnitude of the game.

by OGETARTS on Jan 7, 2009 10:24 AM EST reply actions 0 recs