South Carolina 78, Kentucky 77: Postmortem
by Glenn Logan on Jan 31, 2009 6:33 PM EST
in Kentucky Wildcats Basketball
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It has taken me this long to begin writing this article because I was near apoplexy after the game. Instead of running to the keyboard and pounding out an article I would have to explain or even try to take back is something I have done maybe once at A Sea of Blue, and I don't care to go back there.
First off: Congratulations to the South Carolina Gamecocks. What a terrific effort they put forth, and they were rewarded with a hard-earned and well-deserved victory in Rupp Arena. Both teams played pretty much even the whole game, but the Gamecocks just got it done down the stretch, refused to allow UK to extend their narrow lead, and gave themselves a chance to win. Then, they executed to perfection and won the day.
Noble victory, Gamecocks. Congratulations on your excellent, inspired and ultimately successful effort. You earned every inch of it, and in a manner that is most praiseworthy.
But I'll leave it to Garnet and Black Attack to tell you about South Carolina. I want to talk now about the Wildcats:
First off, I want to explain that my initial reaction was to rip Coach Gillispie. Instead, I am going to apply the obverse of Jerry McGuire's mission statement, "The Things We Think But Do Not Say," and keep my own counsel for now rather than lay it all on the line. But make no mistake, this loss is on the coach. He completely blew the second half of this game in many, many ways, some of which I will detail below, but I do want everyone to know that this is intended to be a constructive critique, not a blast.
Look, we all have bad games. Last game, I thought the coach did fine, the team just took Ole Miss for granted, did not do their homework and that loss was definitely on them. This was Gillispie's turn to have a bad game. Coaches have bad games, too, and they deserve our support when that happens. Coaches are public targets, and most people find it distasteful to take out their angry recriminations on 18-22-year old men, and I agree with that.
But as Kentucky fans, we are expected to be knowledgeable about the game, and have an understanding beyond that of most fan bases, and I do hope that is what we will see comment-wise in this thread instead of a lot of angry venting. Leave the venting to KSR and The Cats Pause. You expect more from me, and I have high expectations of my members as well. But we would be remiss if we did not analyze what went right and what went wrong, and so, I begin with a critique of the coach, with the caveat that I am fully aware that I have never coached even one basketball game and he is infinitely more qualified than I to be making these decisions:
- Using Jodie Meeks to defend Devan Downey. Jodie Meeks is an above average defensive player, perhaps even very good. What he is not is quick enough or long enough to handle Downey. Ramon Harris and DeAndre Liggins held Downey to almost nil in the first half, yet with the game on the line, Gillispie put Meeks on him. Meeks played him well, but he is not quick or long enough to defend a player like that. In my judgment, that decision cost us this game.
- Playing Michael Porter deep into the second half. Porter continuously got beat on defense and turned the ball over 4 times. He almost single-handedly gave back a ten point lead with ballhandling errors and poor decisions.
- I don't blame Gillispie for pulling Liggins after that incredibly stupid three. I know this is an ongoing issue with Liggins. I do think the decision to hold him out so long early in the second half was a mistake, but I can't be to hard on him for trying to send a message.
- Why was Stevenson switching off on Downey? That seems insane to me, but maybe there is some method or theory in which that works. If so, it didn't work out well today.
- Why do the 'Cats continually rotate all our big people to the ball and give up offensive rebounds and put backs? Rotate one. Not both.
- I applaud the attempt to tire the Gamecocks. it was good strategy. It didn't work in the end, but it was good strategy.
- I thought Gillsipie generally made bad decisions on how this game was played -- the Gamecocks are one giant mismatch, and Gillspie has to find a way to deal with mismatches better than this. UK did not stay home on three point shooters, and it cost them.
Now, a few other observations:
- When will DeAndre Liggins stop taking ridiculous, brain-dead bad shots?
- Why do the 'Cats miss so many point-blank shots around the rim? They have done that the last two games.
- 26 points off turnovers. That is ... intolerable.
- UK rebounded pretty well, but the Gamecocks got too many offensive rebounds.
- I was disappointed in the officiating. I didn't think it was very consistent, but that wasn't why UK lost. But it did force Gillispie into a technical, and coincidentally perhaps, that technical wound up being the difference.
- Overall, I have no problem with the effort this team put out. It was much better than Ole Miss. But the foolish turnovers completely nullified their effort. If the 'Cats don't find some way to take care of the ball, UK will continue to lose.
- Great game by Patterson. I can't find a thing to criticize, except maybe his rebounding, which could have been better.
- If Ramon Harris could avoid turnovers and shoot anything, UK would be much better. He makes so many unforced errors.
- Perry Stevenson did a lot. But he missed two huge free throws.
- Kentucky shot 52% overall, 37% from 3, 82% from the line and lost. Why? Turnovers. South Carolina shot 11% lower overall, 3% worse from three. But they got off 28 more shots than UK. That's a horror show.
I must admit, a nice tot of Four Roses bourbon has taken the edge off my frustration, but I am very unhappy with this loss. It was a regression to earlier in the year when Kentucky couldn't get up a shot but 7 possessions out of ten. This is a loathsome ballhandling team, and I just cannot believe that Gillispie can't coach some of it out. The failure to do so now belongs with Gillispie, because the team is making the same fundamental errors over and over and over again as though they never practice. So whatever coach is doing to fix the problem, it isn't working.
Maybe he should try something else.
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Perception is a funny thing
but back to back defeats to teams with less overall talent has shaken my confidence,slightly.I think tonight calls for some 80 proof and Pink Floyd,“Comfortably Numb”.The mood and tone of that great song sums up how I feel at the moment. : (
Not Less Talent
As I’ve posted previously Ole Miss and USC both have more talent than UK excepting Patterson and Meeks. I’ve said for more than two years now that Porter, Harris and Stevenson should never have been scholarship players for UK. As long as they remain starters or even first off the bench Cats will remain a slightly better than average team. Coach said after the game that this could be a long season and he’s dead on accurate and I think he’s all but admitted that the talent deficit is proving very difficult to overcome. Mississsippi State and Florida will both come into Rupp with more talented teams.
I'm sorry, but ...
I completely disagree, and the numbers favor my position. Turnovers cost us this game, and poor decisions from the coach. But really, it was mostly turnovers. They shot the ball 28 more times. We shot the ball better from two, three, and free throws. It aught to be impossible to lose when that happens, except when you give assists to the opponent.
But ballhandling errors are as much a coaching issue as anything else.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
Fervently Disagree
Turnovers are caused primarily by two factors: one mental errors , the other going against athletically superior players and recognizing it. Knowing you must contend with a more talented individual causes one to either become less aggressive or attempt acts that are above your ability. Either way the results are errors. In effect the physical mismatch — especially when the inferior individual recognizes and assents — precipitates the mental errors. Coaching can only go so far in transcending athletic inferiority; not to say Gillispie has reached that limit but IMO he’s recognized that such a limit exists.
Often turnovers are caused...
…by playing timidly. This can be caused by playing out of position ( re; Porter), not knowing if you will be penalized by making a mistake, or just suffering under the pressure outside of the game.
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
Didn't
see the game yesterday. First game I have missed since entering the SEC and frankly I am glad I did. Started to watch the replay but won’t. Tru, your asssement from what I have heard gives me faith to know that we are facing problems at UK right now. First let me say that Ole Miss and South Carolina is coached by two very good coaches. Kentucky has/had a target on its back and frankly we haven’t been able to handle it. Luckly Florida lost yesterday so we are still in a tie for first place. That is a four way tie I think with SC, FL, TN, and Kentucky. I have to also say that the East is a beast this year. Poor Vandy and Georgia wont’ keep up this year but SC, FL, TN, and Kentucky will be battling it out for the rest of the season. Time to “get our game on”. I support Coach but if we lose because of turnovers that is just not going to sit well with anyone in Big Blue Nation. I think our talent level is very high. Though I admit I am not a good person to judge that. I am starting to wonder though if something is going on in the lockerroom that we don’t know about. Or is it that we have faced some challenging teams? MSU will be a turning point for us(and I am SICK of having to look for the next turning point in Kentucky basketball). My patience is very low right now.
No Tubby Smith comments here.
And please, type complete sentences. This is a blog, not an SMS discussion.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
SORRY
you have lost your mind that Ole Miss and USC have more talent than UK.We have 2 players that are serious contenders for AA.
Didn't Read Or...
You must have missed the “excepting Patterson and Meeks” portion or chose to ignore it. Consider the rest of UK playable roster:
Stevenson, Harris and Porter could not make the starting lineup of most top teams and not many SEC teams. Liggins and MIller are rather typical freshmen but offer hope for the future. Galloway and Harrellson are junior college players which says much about their abilities and experience levels.
Stevenson would make any starting lineup in the SEC.
Harris, maybe not. Probably sixth man on most teams.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Glenn Logan on Jan 31, 2009 10:23 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed
I’ve been hard on Stevenson in the past. But, he has really proven that he has what it takes to start in the SEC. I agree that he would be a starter at this point on any SEC team.
Harris and Porter are another story. I think it is fair to say that most people thought Liggins would be starting at this point. But his game has not matured yet. I have mixed feelings about Harris. I think he could be a great 6th or 7th man, but UK really needs a more reliable scorer and ball handler in the SF/swing position.
the REAL fake Mr. Bob Dobalina
Formerly known as "senowen"
There is nothing wrong or weak with Stevenson's talent.
Yes, I know he is a little soft and could use some time in the weigt room and maybe get his ‘aggessiveness zone’ more engaged in his head…but he is not lacking in talent.
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
Hands Of Stone
Don’t know that I’ve ever seen a player at the level of UK with worse hands than Stevenson. He has minimum lower and upper body strength thus his rebounding skills are quite limited, cannot put the ball on the floor, has limited offensive moves and is, at best, a mediocre shooter. Even if all that were true and he possessed an aggressive personality there would be room for optimism, alas that is not the case. Other than that he’s just the type player a team with high aspirations should have as a part of the starting lineup.
If he was that unskilled...
….he wouldn’t be the shot blocker that he is.
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
I have often been the first
to give Hoze a hard time, but I’ll step up and say thanks for the P.Steve comments. He is the last UK player that should be criticized. He puts his gut on the floor every night..
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.
Yes, you have ...
… unless you missed Marvin Stone’s play. Stevenson is infinitely better in the hands area.
There are lots of players who don’t have great hands. Stevenson makes up for that with excellent defense and solid rebounding. In case you didn’t notice, he had 11 today and was two points short of a double-double.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Glenn Logan on Jan 31, 2009 10:26 PM EST up reply actions
Perry seemed a Marvin twin last year..
..and made me shudder everytime I saw him play,. This year he’s is a much improved player. More confident with the ball, more hustle (usually) and better ball awareness. His hands were a split second behind the ball last year, while this year he’s improved significantly even since the season started.
Yes, he missed the free throws at the end – but, first, it never should have come to free throws at the end of the game and second, at least he was still in the game playing hard enough to get fouled.
One quick point, and one other thing...
Don’t blame Meeks or Gillispie for what happened late. Downey often scores all his points late. Whether it’s because he’s clutch or because he’s just in good enough shape to outlast other players, no one can guard him late. This was probably his greatest late game performance, but it wasn’t the first time that he’s scored a lot of points in the last few minutes of a game.
The other thing. This was a huge win for me as a Gamecocks fan, perhaps the most emotional that I’ve ever witnessed. While I know it’s probably little consolation to you guys, the reason it means so much is that you guys are Kentucky. You’re the most history-rich program in the SEC, undoubtedly. This was only the second time we’ve won in Rupp! It means a lot to us, and I mean that with all due respect.
Don’t hang your heads, because at some point in the near future, you’ll be back on top. One thing, though: you may have to contend with one Darrin Horn and his Gamecocks. Both of these programs are headed in the right direction, and I look forward to more games like this between us. Good luck with the rest of your season and when you come to Columbia late February.
Garnet and Black Attack: A Blog by and for Gamecocks Fans. http://www.garnetandblackattack.com
We don't hang our heads here.
It isn’t allowed.
But thanks for the nice comment. I think Meeks was the wrong player at the wrong time, but who knows?
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
Heading in the Right Direction Indeed
Congratulations on the win. You are indeed headed in the right direction.
Thanks for the kind words. We’ll be looking forward to the re-match. ;-)
Thanks for the nice words...
One thing I like about Kentucky fans is that you guys, while harsh on your coaches, are honest and gracious in defeat. May the best team win in Columbia! Great game today.
Garnet and Black Attack: A Blog by and for Gamecocks Fans. http://www.garnetandblackattack.com
by Gamecock Man on Jan 31, 2009 7:54 PM EST up reply actions
I
hated the loss but I have always liked South Carolina. Its good to see you guys succeding. Not against us mind you but good to see SC in the mix. I hope to see you as the number two seed in the east(with us of course being the number one):)
I'll be living ...
… in Gamecock Land in four years or less. I love South Carolina, but when it comes to basketball, I am a Highlander — “There can be only one!”
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
I am normally pretty hard on officiating and maybe today's wasn't the best....
however UK shot 14 more free throws and made 18 more than USC. So maybe it evened out.
This loss comes down to 3 things for me:
1. Turnovers – UK had 21 turnovers that resulted in 26 USC points. It also allow USC to attempt 28 more shots and yet UK only lost by one on a last second shot. Conversely UK forced 10 turnovers resulting in 15 points (a difference of 11 points).
2. Offensive rebounds – USC had 18 OR’s to UK’s 9 which resulted in 21 2nd chance points for USC to UK’s 10. This has been a disturbing trend of late.
3. Guard play – USC’s Downey was able to drive and kick or score at will in the 2nd half. If he missed a shot then USC got alot of weak side rebounds. Smaller quicker guards have baffled UK at times this season (See VMI, Ole Miss and USC). Not only were their guards able to create havoc by driving the lane but they made 3’s as well. UK has one player that can do both consistently and that is Meeks.
A key point in the game for me was when Perry Stephenson picked up his 4th foul and left the game at the 14:30 mark. UK was ahead 54-44 and USC then went on a 14-2 run. As soon as Perry returned, UK came back and took the lead. To me that shows how much Perry meant to UK today. It is a shame he missed 2 high profile free throws at the end because that is all that some will remember.
Slower Traffic Keep Right!
Tru...
I am pleased to see your comments about the tone of the comments on ASOB. It is fine to be frustrated etc. but for the most part folks on this site are reasonable and make valid points without getting nasty. I have boycotted the sites you mentioned above because the tone of the comments are juvenile and inflammatory big time.
Slower Traffic Keep Right!
Coach or Skill Level?
I would like to believe that UK could find an answer to their ills but I am beginning to think that all the effort by the players and the best coaching in the world will not be able to make up for our lack of talent. It might be that simple.
I feel like the guys did there best today. Played strong. Played hard. When your point guard takes a very bad shot that Coach certainly talked about previously do you blame the coach for pulling him or do you bemoan the lack of a quality replacement? Do you blame a freshman for making a freshman shot? Maybe one or more of the new guys will get there some day. Right now, there are 2 players that are of the caliber us spoiled Wildcat fans have come to get use to wearing the Blue and White. Still, I am proud of the effort. Hey, I couldn’t guard Downey either!
I just don't agree with that.
I think we have plenty of talent. Plenty.
The bottom line is, no team should turn the ball over as much as we do. Without all those turnovers, the coaching shortcomings are irrelevant. Allowing an opponent to get up 28 more shots is simply unrecoverable, regardless of talent. Look we shot a higher percentage from everywhere and still lost. The only reason that can ever happen is turnovers.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
I Hope You Are Right
I would certainly be more than happy to admit I am wrong on this!!
However, I was not refering to a lack of shooting ability but a lack of other skills such as ball-handling and foot speed.
For our size ...
… the footspeed is fine. They almost never beat us in transition, and we beat them many times.
Ballhandling is something that can be taught, to some degree. We are clearly not teaching it well, and I blame the coaching for that. I have seen many, many high school players who couldn’t handle become solid ballhandlers in college because of the superior coaching.
But not this team.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
Our foot speed is fine....
however the perimeter quickness might be lacking against smaller guards. It can be overcome with proper defensive fundamentals though. For the most part UK overcomes quickness but at times it hurts.
Slower Traffic Keep Right!
Now that ...
… I can totally agree with.
Length helps with quickness, but you have to trust it. Our big players just attack anyone approaching the rim without regard for the consequences. Not fundamentally sound.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
Blocking shots
I remember being at Transy’s basketball camp when I was in high school and listening to Louie Dampier tell us that blocking shots was indicative of poor defense. He said that if it gets to the point where you think you need to block the shot you’ve already played poor defense. By the time it gets to Patterson and Stevenson leaving their feet in about 8 times out of 10 the poor defense has already occured. Good position defense by the whole team along with good blocking out and you won’t need a lot of blocked shots. Dampier also said that trying to block shots leads to a susceptability to taking fakes, fouls, and being out of position for the block out. He was correct on all points.
There's a lot to agree with in that.
Things are somewhat different now, though. It’s pretty much impossible to prevent penetration with a man-to-man defense when you have a significant quickness mismatch. Still, a block is always the last line of defense, and if you have to block a shot, normally your first line has broken down.
Perry and Pat should never both rotate to block a shot.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
Part of the problem
is the officials allow so much palming of the basketball. It’s way too easy to freeze the defender if you’re allowed to carry the ball like they do now. I had end zone seats a couple of years ago when LSU came to town and I couldn’t believe what they were letting the LSU guards as well as Crawford and Bradley get by with. From a hgher angle you can’t see it as clearly.
I am amazed...
at the way in which we continually give up the ball. I’ve never seen a team, even my rec league teams, that can find such creative ways to give up the basketball. Open floor, fast break, around the rim, driving the lane, passing around the horn. It’s absolutely unbelievable. The only bright thing I took from the Ole Miss game was the few turnovers. I had hoped we had learned the lesson and turned the corner. Obviously, I was wrong. Once again, we played well enough to win with one exception, turnovers. Until we solve this fundamental issue, we will not be able to win consistently. And oh yeah. Why does it seem that other teams decide to have miracle nights shooting against us? I thought we had pretty good defense most of the time but shot after shot fell in the second half. It’s just aggravating. Time to get mean, Cats. You better get a mean streak right now to finish out conference play or what was going to be a surprisingly satisfying year in the SEC is going to turn around fast. Please guys get mad and play some basketball!
Xbox Live Gamertag: hoopchi
Nice Post Tru - you gotta take the e out of emotion
Nice job Darren Horn and USC but where did he get that haircut… LOL. He can flat out coach… .
Not taking anything away from USC but you if you are a top team you should NEVER lose this type of game at home…
I thought UK played well and the difference in the game was Perry missing the two free throws… He makes those and we win… BCG did not shoot those…
As for BCG I do not understand rotation… Galloway looked really good for the brief time he was in the game and I do understand him not getting playing time… Could BCG not know how to use a team that has talent to go 10 deep!!! He is sure not showing that he does…
Someone help me understand the turnovers… Why? What is it?
Liggins should NEVER be allowed to shoot another three this year… He looked really good today at times and I belive he has skills to handle the point and play good defense…
When the game was over my texting group (16 people) came back with five Billy G has to go messages and one really funny comment about Darren Horns hair that I am still laughing about…
We are NOT a top 25 team… We should be!!! The talent is there but we are not getting it done… The schedule after Tuesday night is brutal… Look out!!!
ShagOnSports - "people should know when they are conquered"
Yeah.
It gets worse. Maybe we’ll get better. Maybe.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
Again...
…as a followup to my post below (often I will make comments first w/o reading others)…maybe a tougher schedule will be good for this team. I really think a weak schedule up to this point has ‘hurt’ this team progress. Maybe these next few games will be a good thing.
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
I disagree.
I think this team needed a soft schedule. What happened today was on the coach.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Glenn Logan on Jan 31, 2009 10:27 PM EST up reply actions
Turnovers.
Just wondering why we’ve failed to improve on them throughout the season. At the begining of the year, I thought it was due to players being 1)inexperienced and 2) unfamiliar with each other.
We shouldn’t be making these same mistakes going into February. Good teams just don’t turn the ball over that much especially at home.
I am incredulous. I don’t much know the problem and don’t have any idea on how to fix them.
"Yeah, the guy wearing the $4,000 suit is holding the elevator for the guy who doesn't make that in four months. COME ON! "--GOB
by Thomas Hunt Morgan on Jan 31, 2009 7:21 PM EST reply actions
Here is my theory.
A strong schedule allows a team to grow. It doesn’t allow a team to develop bad habits that are masked by inferior opponents. I really think this is the root cause to this point…and you know what…It is hard to hold the coach responsible for not improving a team or correcting deficiencies since they don’t arise against stronger competition.
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
Nobody ...
… knows more about tough schedules than Kentucky. Billy G. may not be a believer, but our former coach was. It is a double-edged sword.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Glenn Logan on Jan 31, 2009 10:28 PM EST up reply actions
Our Coach is hard to like
Tru,
I just couldn’t agree more with your PG analysis.
NO way Meeks should have been guarding Downey. One, he needs his energy for offense and two, he is not as quick on the D as Liggins and Harris. That was a critical coaching error and follows the same one he made at Ole Miss.
As much as I love the heart of Porter, he cannot be in the close games at crunch time. Another missed layup is one thing, but he is two steps slow on D and everyone on the other team knows that. Critical coaching error.
And, once again, Galloway played solid and our Coach decided that a couple of minutes was all he earned in practice this week. Critical coaching error.
You cannot get T’d up in a close game you desperately need at home. Critical coaching error.
You are correct. This L is mostly on the coach.
He criticized his players for allowing the back to back rainbows from Frederick. That hurt us very badly at that point and set up their comeback.
I especially don’t like Texas Billy ragging on his own guys when he needs to look into the mirror himself.
Let’s all hope they can turn it around. At least Jodie looked like himself for the first five minutes of the second half and PPat continues to define the word “manchild”.
Why can’t our Coach, after a year and a half, find the right system and players to play consistently on the offensive end?
I am afraid that question will continue to haunt us.
GO YOU VALIANT KATS!
I think Billy took responsibility.
At least I listened to the post game show and heard him say the loss was on him as Coach.
We all have bad days. I have them at work. He’s had two in a row now. Not too many were complaining when we were 5-0 in the SEC though.
This is a guy who won co-SEC coach of the year last year. I’m not ready to give up on him yet. Plus I like the way he works and recruits.
It’s hard to run any kind of offense when you turn the ball over 22 times. In my humble opinion. If he could just find a way to fix TO’s I think we would be golden, ready for a deep March run.
Xbox Live Gamertag: hoopchi
Are you saying...
that nothing the Coach can do could affect the outcome of the game? Because if you are, then I will stop right now with any response.
If you are not, then you have to recognize that coaches do influence games and sometimes make mistakes that contribute to losses. If you agree with that, then we can talk. And we can determine what a coach could do to maximize the talent he has available and give his team the best chance of winning despite weaknesses that the team may have.
All teams have weaknesses. If not, we would see undefeated teams every year. They do. Coaching is eliminating and mitigating those weaknesses to give your team the chance to succeed. We have the players we have. All in all, probably better physically than the Unforgettable team. He’s getting paid to figure this out. Let’s hope he does. Either way, I’m not blaming this on Tubby. Perhaps you forgot that Tubby recruited Meeks? And Patterson?
Xbox Live Gamertag: hoopchi
"Flub"
Is 18-3 with 3 W over ranked teams. I’ll pass along your thaks to him.
by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 1, 2009 1:54 PM EST up reply actions
Enough.
No more responses to Smith attacks. From now on, I will just delete them.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
Words of wisdom from The Wiz...
Adolph is my favorite coach.
In second is The Wizard.
If this team could learn just ONE thing from him, it would be this:
“BE QUICK. BUT, DON’T HURRY”
Great advice.
I remember several years ago a UK team was struggling with free throws. They lost a few games because of it and it seemed that toward the end of a game, no one could make one. As the season went on, I think it became almost a psychological thing to where they could not make end game free throws despite all the practice in the world.
Maybe this is like that. Maybe it’s become psychological. I know that you have to play basketball quickly without hurrying which implies playing instinctively. Perhaps we’re thinking too much about trying to not give it away and giving it away all the more. Either way, the only way out is to just play ball. Stop thinking and play quick, but don’t hurry. Again, great advice.
Xbox Live Gamertag: hoopchi
Follow The Leader
I just can’t see BCG being the long-term leader of UKs program. Maybe the kids playing for him see it, but I just cannot as an outsider. I cannot believe that quality, all-around players see it either. I can see playing for UK because of tradition, just not BCG.
In regards to Liggins and his decision making, maybe we’re seeing on the court the reasons he struggled mightily to qualify for college.
I disagree ...
I see this as a learning process for Gillispie and for Liggins. Liggins is trying very hard to be something right now that he won’t be for a year or two. It’s normal. Some players mature faster than others.
His talent is undeniable, but he is clearly trying too hard. He needs to relax, and not worry about scoring. Let the game come to him.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
Liggins struggles...
I think can be attributed to being a freshman. This isn’t high school and the passes he sometimes tries to make look very much like good passes in a high school game. Unfortunately, the personnel are faster at this level and he’s just not adjusted completely to it yet. To correlate any of his struggles to whatever delayed his college qualification is a long jump of logic that I would not take.
Xbox Live Gamertag: hoopchi
Gillispie tries to walk past Horn without a handshake
I sincerely hope I didn’t see what I think I saw at the end of the game. From my seat on the couch, it certainly looked like Gillispie walked right past Horn and the SC coach had to turn and grab him to acknowledge him. Perhaps someone else saw it different, but if what I saw is what happened, I find it inexcusable from the coach of Kentucky and my opinion of Gillispie the man just dropped a notch or two.
Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."
There is bad blood there, I think.
Horn made some very critical comments of Gillispie shortly after coming into the league.
I frankly am still very displeased with what Horn said, and I hope the two can sort it out. But I do believe that there is a backstory of bad blood, and not just a little. Horn overstepped his bounds, and I think the coach was sending him the message that he has not forgotten it.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
Tru, I haven't read about this. Could you give me a link or details?
Garnet and Black Attack: A Blog by and for Gamecocks Fans. http://www.garnetandblackattack.com
by Gamecock Man on Jan 31, 2009 8:43 PM EST up reply actions
If it's what I suspect ...
… read this.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Glenn Logan on Jan 31, 2009 10:24 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks. Didn't know about this exchange.
Garnet and Black Attack: A Blog by and for Gamecocks Fans. http://www.garnetandblackattack.com
by Gamecock Man on Feb 1, 2009 12:09 PM EST up reply actions
I have no idea ...
… if that had anything at all to do with the alleged incident. It may not have. But it is interesting.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
Tru.....
I have attempted to not comment on today’s game to respect that the Big Blue Nation have time to settle down after tough losses such as this…I’ll take your post as the okay to comment, ableit with politeness, with my post.
I am sure you recall that my comments after the last game were directed at Gilliispie. No I don’t think he should be fired, but he should be fairly critiqued. You are right that his methods are not working and he needs to try something else. I don’t think Liggins has regressed, but he hasn’t improved at the point either…at least not to the point where they are in the season. Where is Galloway? Do we know anything about him? I could go on.
Now this is not the coach’s problem, but I think it fair to remind all that the OCC schedule is particularly weak this year…not to mention the SEC. Maybe it is difficult to improve the team if you are playing a schedule that is ranked #100th. It’s probably fools gold to take anything away from victories for both the fans and the coach.
Look, a primary problem if not the #1 problem is the point guard play…and you know I have defended Porter. Maybe it is more accurate to say the point guard talent. What is most concerning is that the upcoming recruitment base does not address this big gap. It just doesn’t.
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
...and one more thing.
…and this borders on ciricizing the coach directly so I am treading on a fine line here. I think there is a concern about Gillispie’s bench coaching. I think his strength lies in recruiting and effort and commitment and defense, etc. I just have not seen where he has made in game or halftime coaching changes that allows the team to respond. Hell, maybe he is just young and will eventually learn it….
…which brings me to a thought. Whom does he have on the bench?? Does he even have an ‘old coach’ or a mentor that could help him out and grow? Everyone needs a mentor in his job/
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
I addressed all this briefly above, but I think I owe you more than short answers.
Scheduling is largely a matter of taste. When you have a strong team, or expect to have a strong team, a tough schedule is a very good thing. When you are just coaching your second year with a team that is recovering from two down years, scheduling a relatively weaker OOC schedule is defensible. It is also subject to criticism.
I’m not saying you’re wrong, but I am saying it is not as relevant as you are trying to make it. Many teams who have weak OOC schedules have gone on to excel, and vice versa. There is no magic formula, no magic bullet. Strong OOC schedules get you more respect from the pundits, so there’s that. I think Gillispie is trying to develop a feeling of winning first, and deal with the schedule second. I don’t know if that’s the best approach, but it is certainly defensible.
Gillispie’s mentor is Bill Self. That’s a fair mentor, if you ask me. He has people on the bench that he trusts, and I think that’s about all you can ask.
Regarding point guard talent, I think Gillispie is to much into a process that forces him not to play his best talent unless they perform at a high level in practice, and some players simply don’t do that well in practice. Gillispie also is less tolerant of errors made by players that don’t play well in practice. I think that we are just going to have to live with that, or press to get him fired and replaced. Gillispie is what he is, and we should either embrace that, or start lobbying for his replacement. I’m certainly not going to do that — not now, for sure. He is underachieving as a coach right now, I think, but coaching is neither an exact science nor something that can be perfected in the few years he has been on the job. People forget that Gillispie has the least coaching experience, overall, of any head coach at Kentucky in memory. He is clearly still learning his craft.
We of the Big Blue Nation are not known for our patience, which makes this one of the tougher jobs in the nation. Gillispie new that coming in. I have echoed JL Blue’s call for the Big Blue Nation to “embrace the hate” from some in the national media. We must also embrace the style of Gillispie, or reject it . It’s that simple.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Glenn Logan on Jan 31, 2009 10:40 PM EST up reply actions
Two points:
1. Scheduleing – I don’t mean this as a criticism of the program or Gillispie. Sometimes the schedule is stronger or weaker than what may been intended when negotiated. For example, who would have thought two years ago that IU would be terrible this year. Call it luck of the draw if you will, but I think this year’s schedule turned out weaker than what anyone intended and it is hurting the team. As I said above, at least they are not necessarily improving at a rate that I think anyone likes or has at least stalled. You get good playing against good teams…that’s the justification I use, at least, when I get my butt kicked on a regular basis on the golf course. :)
2. Mentor – Yea, I know Self is a mentor but the last time I looked he was busy coaching his own team. I am talking about a mentor on the bench or staff. I think it is fair that Gillispie is still considered a young coach who is yet still learning. Does he have a guy by his side? He sees so daggone stubborn that I would think he would benefit from an old guy who he respects that can counsel him on a daily basis….maybe he has one….I am not that familiar with his staff.
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
Sorry for the ridiculously late reply on this.
I’m sure most people probably don’t go back several days to check for new posts, but, here is my reply anyway. : )
For some reason I just thought about this conversation and I can’t believe I didn’t think to post this the first time I read your post, but, on the topic of mentors, Coach Gillispie did (unfortunately past tense) until recently (September 2008), have an old coach that he respected as a mentor. Don Haskins.
This piece is about Don Haskins, but there is an excellent quote from Coach Gillispie on the bottom of the first page if you are at all interested. I’m assuming that the quote was given after Haskins’ passing, so I would think the "phone calls after each and every game" that Coach Gillispie is referring to receiving from Haskins also pertained to his time at Kentucky as well as his time in Texas.
Liggins Decision Making
Tru, I agree with everything you’re saying except for Liggins “incredibly stupid three.” On the shot I think you’re referring to, Liggins was absolutely WIDE OPEN. Grant it, it was early in the shot clock but there was no one within 10 feet. If the kid doesn’t shoot that shot, Billy G is going to bench him…so he takes the shot, misses, and goes to the bench. I know he’s been dreadful this year from behind the arc, but when he’s that open he needs to shoot the ball. When we start benching players for taking open three’s it messes up their decision making and especially their confidence
I don't think ...
… that three could be described any other way considering time and score. It wasn’t that, in isolation, it was a lousy shot. It was a lousy shot because of where we were in the game, and what the score was. Yes, he was open, but he shot that thing on the move, which is the toughest shot in all of basketball.
The best three is a wide-open set shot. The second best is a wide-open jumpshot. The third best is the one you don’t take when you can’t get square to the basket, your feet set, or when you see a better shot elsewhere. The very worst is a three point shot on the move.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Glenn Logan on Jan 31, 2009 10:44 PM EST up reply actions
Turnovers….
My 2 cents about turnovers. If we slow the pace down we reduce the turnovers by at least 5 game. Multiple times today, we rebounded or received an outlet pass and just tried “ramming” it down the floor. Also, if Porter is going to be the PG he needs to act like it. On many occasions, Stevenson or Pat had the ball at half court with noone to pass causing them to throw bad pases. Porter needs to demand the ball or go get it when this happen.
But really it was a good game to watch, outside of the turnovers. And anyone who talk talent needs to realize that UK has talent just inexperienced. But all of out experienced players are not talent, just experienced.
I think the pace was fine ...
… I just think we are rushing too much. We need to play “deliberately fast,” which is to say as fast as possible while under control. We play a kind of “chaotic fast,” which does generate “live” turnovers, the worst kind.
Good comment.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Glenn Logan on Jan 31, 2009 10:50 PM EST up reply actions
New Guy
Hello all,
I am fairly new to this website, and new to blogging on this site. I am from Kansas and have been a Kentucky fan for the last 15 years. I became a die-hard fan due Travis Ford. I loved the way he played. Since starting my love affair with UK, I have emersed myself in the history of UK. I am a sports freak and love stats and history. I have to say, I can hang with most UK fans about the history of this great program. Anyway, on to today’s game and what I think of UK and Coach.
This loss was tuff to take. I loved the technical by Coach. I felt that was done intentially, to fire of the the team, and it worked. The team played hard, but give up too many offensive rebounds. We could have dealt with the turnovers if we hit the boards better. I agree, Patterson and Stevenson often over rotate, as they love the block shot, leaving open lanes for offensive rebounds. This can be fixed. I really feel that Coach knows what he is doing, but is dealing with a team trying to find an identity and a point guard. As we saw today, a great point guard makes the difference. Regarding our point guards, Porter is not the answer. He misses open lay-ups and is not a good 3-point shooter. He turns the ball over too much as well. Liggins is a freshman and plays like one. However, he is quick, as good one-on-one moves, and can get to the rack. His outside shot needs to be develped (so did Meeks when he first got here, as he was not a great shooter as a freshman). Liggins is a good passer, wtih the potential to be a great passer. Also, hit height makes him a mismatch. He has potential, once his mind catches up. If he does not get it together, Coach as a true point guard coming in next year to challenge Liggins.
This team is new to each other. Last year Meeks did not play. Crawford and Bradley are gone. This is like a whole new team. Patterson is the only stud that played a lot last year. We have 2 studs in Meeks and Patterson. Miller is improving and beat his guy one-on-one. He is an average defender with potential. Stevenson is a great shot blocker, solid rebounder, and can add points. Patterson and Meeks are great. Galloway and Harrellson have potential to provide solid minutes off the bench. If this team would just take care of the ball, we would have at least 2 more wins, even with average talent, and below the overall talent level of the teams of the mid and late 90’s. Coach is recruting well, but need some time to develop this program and get everything back on track.
Lets be patient. If Meeks and Patterson come back, which I think both will, next year should be awesome. Hood will provide another 3 point threat. The 5-star center (forget his name) will take some pressure of Patterson, and by next year a solid point guard will be here (either LIggins gets better or the new guy, again forget name, will help out). I have hope that things are on their way up, but it will take time.
Sorry I am kind of all over the place, I don’t blog much. Anyway, lets hope the guys learn from these 2 loses and get things back on track.
Glad to have found this website I also appologize for any type-o’s – Lane
Thanks ...
… for the great comment. I love positive comments, they are always welcome. I think you are more right than wrong, and virtually all your points have the virtue of being defensible.
Well done, and welcome to A Sea of Blue.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Glenn Logan on Jan 31, 2009 10:46 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks
Thanks for the positive words. I have learned that patience is important when re-building a program. Also, if you look at college ball, every GREAT team has be beaten and played poorly at some point this year. We are very young, only one Senior who does not play. Things are only going to get better, but we must be a patient fan base, and support your coach.
Lane
thanks for the civil discussion
this stinks – no other way to put it. my 10 yr old son cried. but i do appreciate having some place to go for a civil discussion – even the UL fan makes some good points (maybe i am going too far).
This game was lost the day Derrick Jasper left. i would argue every game we have lost this year except UNC was lost the day he left. as much as i love porter and am pulling for liggins, they are not there yet. maybe they pull some miracle growth later like crawford and bradley did, but waiting is a pain. quiet frankly, we are lucky to have the record we do averaging around 20 to’s a game…
i not as upset with liggins taking that shot – that shot, if he makes it, combined with the one at the end of the first have might have been enough to push his confidence to the level we need it to be. that being said, the timing was bad. BCG might have let him play through it and give him a chance to say my bad…
and i am not sure meeks should have been on Downey. by the way, patterson and stevenson had rotated over to help ALL day long and decide on that play not to? i would have liked to see someone longer on Downey – Harris is the obvious choice because if coach had put liggins, miller or galloway on him and he scored, he would be second guessed for putting a first year player on Downey.
I keep telling myself that i thought pitino would never get it done after losing to duke in the 92 regional final. i am not saying BCG is pitino, but he does need time….
by memphis wildcat on Jan 31, 2009 10:41 PM EST reply actions
I see what you are saying ...
… but if you read my pre-game, you would know that I have been calling for this excess rotation to stop for some time. It is silly and it is singularly to blame for most of the offensive rebounds and second-chance points.
Yes, they have over-rotated all year, but it’s time to stop now. It is hurting us. I grant you, it was not the reason we lost, that belongs squarely on our turnover problem. But it does hurt us more than it helps, and we have to learn to control it.
Great comment.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Glenn Logan on Jan 31, 2009 10:48 PM EST up reply actions
turnovers are number one but
over rotation was close number two today. i think USC had 25+ points off to’s and 20+ second chance points which was directly related to USC’s offensive rebounds – hard to imagine usc was #10 in rebounding coming into the game
i agree with you that over rotation needs to stop but they picked an inopportune time to stop!
oh one other point – we are almost half way into BCG’s second conference season and he just today got his first home loss. i know the SEC is down, but we know the other teams always bring it against UK – just trying to help you pace yourself with your Four Roses…..
by memphis wildcat on Jan 31, 2009 11:01 PM EST up reply actions
Heh.
Thanks for that, but I have learned to avoid excess in alcohol. My youth was littered with ‘’experiences,’’ but as I approach my dotage, I have learned the good sense in moderation. :-)
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Glenn Logan on Jan 31, 2009 11:12 PM EST up reply actions
FINAL: Tennessee 79, Florida 63
I didn’t see this posted yet, but the loss drops FL to 5-2 with UK also at 5-2.
UT is 4-2.
GBB!!!
Just visited Garnet and Black Attack.
I wanted to see what their fans were saying about the game. Unfortunately, not one comment on the game recap article.
I’m glad I’m a Kentucky fan so that anytime, day or night, I can get online and converse with my fellow Cat fans. It’s great to be part of the Big Blue Nation and thanks to A Sea of Blue for hosting such a hospitable environment where legitimate discussion and varied opinion can make us all richer and more intelligent about the sport we love.
I feel our team is at a crossroads. The next game is crucial.
I have finished all of my Woodford Reserve. I plan to try this Four Roses you all speak of so highly. Perhaps moderation would have been wise. Alas, in this area, turnover prone I am.
Xbox Live Gamertag: hoopchi
We are ...
… all afflicted with the same insanity. :-)
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Glenn Logan on Jan 31, 2009 11:28 PM EST up reply actions
Talent
Many comments have talked about talent. For the 2009 class, rivals has UK ranked 13th. We are getting their. I know we have a 5 star in the 2009 class, and another 5 star in the 2010 class. The talent level is getting their. If Patterson and Meeks stay, next year this team is top 15, and will only keep getting better. Within 5 years, UK is back in the elite and playing for National Titles.
If Patterson and Meeks stay ...
… we are a legitimate threat to win the whole thing. Top ten, no doubt.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Glenn Logan on Jan 31, 2009 11:33 PM EST up reply actions
They will stay
I think they stay. Meeks has shown the past 2 games that he is human. He would benefit from improving his ball handeling skills and mid range jumper (that Downey beat us on all day long). Patterson is very skilled, but would benefit from adding a solid 12-15 foot jump shot. Also, his rebounding lately has been weak. I think Patterson wants to be knows as the recruit (the guy) that got UK back on track. He seems to love the college game. I also think Meeks love college ball, and both know that if they stay, they could etch their names in the history books of the greatest college basketball program.
I agree with everything you guys are saying...
I believe liggins, miller, galloway will all look back at tape of freshman year/first yr and say: “i cannot believe i every played like that”
Hopefully that is my head and not my heart speaking!
by memphis wildcat on Feb 1, 2009 9:22 AM EST up reply actions
I was disappointed that Harrellson didn't get any pt in the 2nd half
I’m not sure why CBG went with Stewart over Harrellson in the 2nd half. I thought Harrellson looked good in the 1st half. He was aggressive and did a good job rebounding when he was in there.
GBB!!!
I think ...
… the problem is that they went small most of the second half, and Harrellson is a bad matchup. We had a bunch of mismatches all over the floor, and Gillsipie played Harrellson from need only in the first half.
Harrellson did play pretty well, though. I don’t really get playing AJ instead of him, AJ is just so wild and careless, where Josh is much more mature and stable. I don’t really know.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Glenn Logan on Jan 31, 2009 11:36 PM EST up reply actions
Happy For My Friend (DBO On K-St Staff) There
But highly disappointed to L to Gamecocks in Rupp Arena. Tough L today.
by FortyYearCatFan on Jan 31, 2009 11:56 PM EST up reply actions
Didn't Guarantee ANY
Predicted this one wrong.
by FortyYearCatFan on Jan 31, 2009 11:59 PM EST up reply actions
Miami???
I didn’t guarantee it but I said it SHOULD have been a W at home.
Nothing more, nor less. UK should not be losing this many home games.
by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 1, 2009 12:16 AM EST up reply actions
Here's your prediction, Forty re: Miami
Not Nervous
UK wins this game. Maybe single digit margin but W not in doubt.
by FortyYearCatFan on Dec 6, 2008 10:34 AM PST actions 0 recs
If it quacks like a duck, call him Daffy….looks like you guaranteed it.
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
Indeed
It was a prediction, not a guarantee. No G word used in there.
by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 1, 2009 12:38 AM EST up reply actions
'...not in doubt...'
= Guarantee. Just live up to your mistakes…it’s good for the soul.
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
Defense
Turnovers were huge, but if defense is supposed to be the calling card for this team, then I think defense lost us the game. We had no answer for their guards, and for the 2nd straight game.
Does anyone think a trapping halfcourt defense would enable our defense to be more effective in limiting penetration and creating turnovers? I thought we played this style in the 2nd half vs Miami, and it seemed effective. It allows us to take advantage of our length and positions us as the aggressor on defense, which is the attitude BG wants to establish. We might give up some buckets, but we might create turnovers as well, and right now Id take that tradeoff because as it is, the opposing guards are scoring at will.
I don't.
Trapping defenses are best played by smaller teams, and surrender a lot of easy baskets to good ballhandling teams. We used to see that all the time in the Pitino years. Gillispie will trap some, but it’s hard to trap South Carolina, and a failed attempt will usually result in a layup. Traps work much better against teams that don’t handle the ball well, and we have used it sometimes in those cases, usually at home.
I don’t think there is anything fundamentally wrong with our defense. South Carolina and Auburn present unique matchup problems that are hard for a long, lean team to overcome. Quite frankly, most of the very best teams today have a zone defense in their arsenal, at least a matchup zone, that can help disrupt a team and force teams to react to different defenses. You never have to worry about that with UK. UK plays one defense — man-to-man, no changes no surprises. The zone will generally prevent guard penetration, but does create more opportunities for offensive rebounds.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
But that's a problem
I think not having a zone is something that’s fundamentally wrong with our defense. A zone is just a tool and like all tools there’s a time and a place to use it. Even John Wooden, who’s forgotten more about basketball than Billy Clyde knows, used a zone to beat Houston 101-69 in the rematch after Houston ended UCLA’s 47 game winning streak earlier that year and he was a strong believer in man to man. He also routinely used a 2-2-1 full court zone press. KY could put a lineup on the floor capable of playing a great zone. Liggins, Galloway, Stevenson, Patterson, and Meeks. The length and quickness of that group could give people trouble in a zone. Denny Crum is an example of a coach too inflexible to use every tool available to him when he wouldn’t adapt his offense strategy to use the 3 point shot.
I agree.
But Gillispie disagrees, and his vote is the only one that counts.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
Actually I think the lack of quickness is hurting the man-to-man.
…at least at the guard position. I don’t see Meeks as a real good on the ball defender…heck he is probably exhausted from working so hard on the offensive end. I think Liggins’ length can help but he has a tough time with small quick guards. And Porter…well. They just aren’t deep enough at the guard position to keep up defensively….look how often UofL rotates their guys and they give them a blow every once in awhile with a zone.
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
Porter
He was recruited as a back-up G for depth behind Meeks at SG and Jasper at PG (both Top 40 rated recruits). Porter is that, and should be playing 5-10 minutes PT in back-up role.
by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 1, 2009 9:05 PM EST up reply actions
Technical Foul = Loss
It’s that simple. That’s all that needs to be said.
I will probably get some flames for this comment, but I don’t care. :(
really?
i don’t see how just because we lost by a point. we were down 26-20 with 1 SC free throw coming when he got T’d up. They made both and the 1 they had coming putting UK down 29-20. The refs made some bad calls, and I think Coach had to say something…refs missed some easy basic calls. Anyway the bad calls and the T got the crowd really fired up….they were super loud and i think it helped the team. They scored two easy buckets, and forced a SC timeout. Uk went on a quick (at least) 12-4 run, and then managed to take the lead into the half. They lost the lead in the second half when they couldn’t contain Downey or get defensive rebounds.
You can blame Coach for the loss, saying he was outcoached, that he didn’t make the right adjustments, lineup changes, whatever…but it was a 1 point loss, and you really can’t take one thing in isolation and say that event lost the game (not even Stevenson’s FTs), but especially not something in the first half of the game.
GO BIG BLUE!! GO BIG BLUE!!
by UKWildCatFanatic on Feb 1, 2009 1:35 AM EST up reply actions
Yes you will get flames.
It is absurd to blame the loss on Billy’s technical. Hell, you could argue that they responded after that foul. I find it incredibly hard to pin the loss on any single occurance.
I disagree...
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe the two games this year (with the exception of the exhibition game) where BCG got technicals were our two closest losses. I understand that A does not necessarily imply B, but I do think its worth noting.
no tubby commits
the reason were in the shape were in is because of tubby smith. if he was still there patterson would not be there and where would we be. we need a guard and i can’t believe the number one program in the nation can’t get a guard. we have no one who can guard a quick fast guard. Porter should have came to kentucky to play football because he can’t play basketball can’t even make a layup. no reason to go on bad day very bad lost 101 old grandad on a day like to day.
Guard Recruits
Alex Legion. DeAndre Liggins. Kevin Galloway. Donald Williams. (All signed by Billy Gillispie)
He had the opportunity to sign anyone else (guards) he wanted with those 3 scholarships.
Patterson was coming to UK regardless. We did lose out on Jai Lucas because of the coaching change.
by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 1, 2009 8:25 AM EST up reply actions
Regardless?
If Patterson was coming regardless, why did he wait so long to make the decision?
He Said (His Own Words) He Wanted To See Whether Tubby Would Still Be At UK
I’ll ask his parents (again) when i see them on Feb 25th in SC.
by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 1, 2009 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
I am on a Tubby Smith Eruption crusade.
Please keep the Smith complaints out. It draws too much fire and takes over threads.
Thank you for your cooperation.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
January Swoon
Like it was in the Joe B Hall days. UK recovered quite nicely most of those years.
by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 1, 2009 9:57 AM EST up reply actions
I had forgotten about that!
The January Swoon of Joe B. Hall. I barely remember Hall as a coach but I remember my dad going off every January because the Cats suddenly turned into a bad team for a few games. It made the cold weather all the worse.
Xbox Live Gamertag: hoopchi
Understand But
I doubt you’ll find many complaints about Tubby on any Minnesota boards.
by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 1, 2009 1:52 PM EST up reply actions
Porter/Harris/Stewart vs. Liggins/Miller/Harrellson
The trio of Porter, Harris and Stewart really struggled and didn’t contribute enough given the amount of pt they received.
The stats don’t tell everything, but they do tell a lot.
Porter/Harris/Stewart:
54 minutes
2 points (they only took 4 shots and no free throws were attempted)
6 rebounds
6 assists
7 turnovers
0 block shots
vs.
Liggins/Miller/Harrellson:
39 minutes
17 points
11 rebounds
2 assists
6 turnovers
1 block shot
GBB!!!
Who Is It That Determines PT?
The coach who recruited them, or the one who COACHES them now?
by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 1, 2009 8:50 AM EST up reply actions
I don't care who recruited them.
I just want UK to win and I felt that Liggins, Miller and Harrellson should have played more.
Liggins played great in the 1st half and CBG completely ignored him for the first 10 minutes of the 2nd half. That has to really drive a player like Liggins crazy. I’d be willing to bet that was a big reason why he struggled once he went back in with about 10:30 left in the game.
Harrellson also played well in his 4 minutes in the 1st half. CBG for some reason went with Stewart over Harrellson in the 2nd half. If a kid plays well and hustles, which Harrellson did, then you have to reward him with more playing time.
Miller is starting to gain confidence and he’s playing much, much better. He was solid in the Alabama and Ole Miss games. He looked pretty good yesterday when he was in there. His mid-range game was very good and he had nice block shot late in the 2nd half. This kid needs more playing time.
GBB!!!
Indeed
But it is GILLISPIE who decides PT.
He is responsible for W or L ultimately. Not the cause, not the reason, but ultimately it’s on him.
by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 1, 2009 9:50 AM EST up reply actions
I know it's CBG that determines the playing time :-)
I don’t think I will ever understand his rotations or substitution patterns. At times, they just don’t make a bit of sense.
GBB!!!
Agree that BCG is responsible!!!
When Forty’s counterpart 30 years from now puts out stats on whatever passes for a UK blog, it will have Gillispie’s name and a number of wins and a number of losses. Nowhere will it say, “Yeah, but Louisville beat us when they shot out of their butts; and the SC loss was a one-pointer.” Just Ws and Ls. That’s unforgiving, but that’s the way it is. And Ws are what the fan base expects. The fact that we expect a lot of Ws notwithstanding, there will be some Ls beside BCG’s name. If there are too many, he won’t last long. If there are a lot, he’ll be in for a long tenure. And some won’t like him and some will still be talking about Tubby . . . .and Adolph . . . . and Pitino . . . . and . . . .
It's All About W And L
Nothing else.
Rupp won 4 of 5. So did Pitino. They’re revered as UK’s best.
Hall won 3 of 4. So did Tubby. They’re next tier at UK.
Sutton won fewer than they did.
by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 1, 2009 10:09 AM EST up reply actions
If there are too many, he won’t last long. If there are a lot, he’ll be in for a long tenure.
If there are a lot… he will have a short tenure, it’ll just feel long. Heh.
Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."
Following Coach's Orders
is the way to get playing time. Gillispie and most other coaches play the players who go out on the floor and try hard to do what the coach tells them to do — all of the time they are on the floor. That’s why Porter and Harris get more minutes.
Coach's Order
but if they’re following coach’s orders & are still ineffective why are they still getting so many minutes. It all comes back to one man doesn’t it?
third scorer
Old news that Ky needs a little more scoring punch from somebody not named Patterson or Meeks. Enter Harrelson: 4 minutes, 5 points. Could it be possible if he plays 16 minutes—less than half the game—he gets 20? Everybody knows he’s prone to stretches of somnolence on the defensive side of the ball, but if he got to play more, perhaps that would improve. Another big threat down low (or on the wing) wouldn’t be a bad thing. What say you, BCG?
What I think we need ...
… is less a third scorer than more aggressive defensive and offensive rebounding, and less shot block rotation.
We are getting enough scoring. We need to prevent put backs and play better on the ball defense. I think we are hurting ourselves more with our defensive rotation than helping.
On one possession yesterday, USC got 5 (!) offensive rebounds ultimately ending in a basket. As big as we are, there is no excuse whatever for that. It is just a simple lack of effort and fundamentals.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
Defense
UK gave up 80+ ppg the past 2 games after only allowing 50 something ppg in the prior 3 games.
by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 1, 2009 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
Ha Tru......
You beat me to the punch. I couldn’t believe no one mentioned the sequence where USC got 5 ORs! The most disturbing thing to me……..and I think you kind of alluded to it……is seeing so many fundamental mistakes being made. Regarding ORs, I noticed many times the ball was around at least three of our players and no one grabbed. Basic hand issue………argh! And both big men rotating out has been driving me nuts too!! And in regards to talent, we have plenty, but our three most talented players (Jodie, Pat, Perry) had 8 of our 21 turnovers. I really think we have some mental toughness issues to overcome. There has to be a good balance of transition offense and half court offense. I think sometimes we just rush ahead and don’t think it through……..if that makes sense.
I don't think our toughness is that big a problem.
What I think is that players are not using their heads at all, they are just out there reacting. Now, you can overthink this game for sure, but most of what is going on are players being out of proper position, and lacking trust in each other.
Players like Liggins are going to get beat off the dribble by smaller, quicker guards. What we are seeing, though, is Liggins usually stays close enough to bother the shot with his length. But Patterson and Stevenson don’t trust that, nor do they trust each other. We are seeing them both rotate to the ball, leaving a simple pass to a big or cutting slasher for the score. They don’t trust Liggins to recover, and they don’t even trust the help-side defender by himself. Somebody needs to stay with the bigs under the basket and force the tough shot and be in position for the rebound. We need to stop going for so many blocks, because when you have two guys going for it and both miss, an OR and putback is almost guaranteed.
This is fundamental basketball. Fundamental. It isn’t a toughness issue, it is just poor fundamental basketball. This team may be close, but their desire to help each other is their undoing. Too much help is worse than too little, because somebody is going to be open. We have got to learn to stay at home more and trust players to recover. The Suffocats were great at that.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
Also on the 5 USC ORs
That is a prime example of the lack of mental toughness that really hurts us. It’s such a glaring lack of effort that it can’t be ignored. Almost 1/3 of their ORs in one possession. Come on now!!!
Again ...
… it isn’t so much toughness. Both the big guys were going for blocks on every shot, and nobody was worrying about where the ball went if it missed. You can’t do that. Somebody has to rebound.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
Point taken
I totally agree that the rotation of the big men hurt us on the boards a lot. I also remember a lot of white jerseys around the ball on both ends and nobody really working to get it. Maybe lack of concentration is a better way of putting it. This is more evident in the TO dept with the slew of unforced TOs we’ve seen this season.
Maybe I’m wrong but I think the offensive rotation leaves a lot to be desired at times too. Once again I think Pat and Perry rotate outside the arc too much. They should most always both be near the post and no farther than 15 feet from the basket IMO. You feed them from there and they can shoot or assist one another underneath.
And I know Meeks is not a PG, but he has got to have more assists. Everytime he gets the ball there are at least two players coming at him. That leaves somebody open and he has got to take advantage of that.
I may be Billy's biggest fan.
He didnt have a good game day yesterday, but that happens. I believe that he is a good coach and will prove himself to be great. Its coming. I agree that the past two years have been tough and frustrating, but good times are coming. I just hope Gillispie continues to stay with us. I love everything about the man. I love the way he interviews (hee hee), I love his passion for the game – which does result in the occasional techincal, but he IS human after all. (I would HATE to see how many techincals I would rack up;) I really believe that – even in light of “questionable” coaching decisions and rotation patterns that Bill G is building a dynasty and is not always looking at the here and now, which to a UK fan can be infurating. Our time is coming – mark my words. I see us as a final four team next year and agree with Tru that if (WHEN) Meeks and Patterson return next year that we will be in the position to win it all. Patience is a virtue, and not one that I necessarily have. It will be ok. It will be better than ok.
by kentuckygirl0724 on Feb 1, 2009 2:34 PM EST reply actions
Gillispie ...
… will be fine, as will the team. These are fixable problems, but Gillispie does need to spend some time on them, particularly on the defensive rotation and ballhandling issues. I have a feeling this game will get his full attention in those areas — they are glaring, serious problems that must be addressed right away.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
Patience
That, plus some more coaching, will end the January Swoon.
by FortyYearCatFan on Feb 1, 2009 3:06 PM EST up reply actions
Darren Horn
I also just want to add that I go to church with Darren Horn’s brother and he was at church this morning sporting a USC shirt and commented, “Hey one win in (however many) games, you gotta celebrate with a brother a little bit, right?” He was (JOKINGLY) “booed” by the congregation. He is a good guy. It was funny.
I do think that there is bad blood between Gillispie and (Coach) Horn. All I can say is Horn better be ready in Columbia! GO CATS!
by kentuckygirl0724 on Feb 1, 2009 2:37 PM EST reply actions
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