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Kentucky 80, Ole Miss 85:  Postmortem

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Congratulations to a tough, determined and very skillful Ole Miss team.  They absolutely wanted this game more, and they earned it.  I am not going to insult the Rebels by suggesting it was Kentucky's deficiencies that were the difference.  The fact is, Ole Miss simply executed almost to perfection in every single facet of the game.  Combine sharp execution with players who were very confident and fearless of the newly-ranked Wildcats, and you have a big, fat upset at the Tad Pad.

Obviously, I am disappointed in the outcome, but UK has been on a long road trip and the road in the SEC can often be cruel.  Teams can get hot or just plain outplay you, especially in their own gym.  It was definitely the latter tonight for the Rebs.  Hotty Toddy, guys, well done.

For Kentucky, obviously this setback is a disappointment.  The 'Cats were hoping to find a down team that was undermanned, and instead walked into a team that has nothing to lose, and played without a shred of fear.  I will say that it looks clear to me that Kentucky was not well prepared for this Ole Miss team.  I think the 'Cats assumed that Jodie Meeks could wear his man down and get his shots, just has he has against many other teams this year.  That didn't happen.

Anyway, here are the rest of my observations for this game:

Star-divide

  • DeAndre Liggins had a good first half, but in the second half he reverted to form.  I think we have to be satisfied with that -- for now.
  • Jodie Meeks could not guard David Huertas.  The Rebels did a super job of bouncing Meeks off of screens, and all too many times, Huertas was able to get a good look, and he was very efficient.
  • Kentucky came back hard on the boards in the second half after being ourebounded soundly in the first.  UK wound up losing the rebounding battle by a total of five.
  • Turnovers did not hurt Kentucky in this game.  UK managed only 10 turnovers.
  • What did hurt UK in this game was a 25% 3-point percentage, and being held to 34.5% by Ole Miss -- 100% due to outstanding Rebel defense.  To everyone's surprise, Ole Miss scored as many points in  the paint as UK, 28, and more points of turnovers, 18-7.
  • What did Kentucky in was an unusual lack of offensive efficiency.  The 'Cats did not get the ball to Patterson enough, and Stevenson simply vanished into the thick air of the Tad Pad.
  • Terrico White, Malcolm White and David Huertas were just awesome tonight.  Zach Graham was just shy of awesome, but very good.
  • UK simply could not make up the 15+ points that Meeks was unable to score.  That is obviously a weakness that will have to be addressed.
  • I think Gillispie made a tactical error by allowing Meeks to guard Huertas.  That caused Meeks to expend way too much energy defensively, and it clearly affected Meeks' offense.
  • What happened to the good screens that were freeing up Meeks in the Alabama game?  They were absent today.
  • Defensively, UK never did get a grip on this team, and made number of glaring errors which Ole Miss was able to cash in on.
  • Darius Miller still has a long way to go offensively, but he did manage an inefficient nine points.
  • Deandre Liggins should never attempt 16 shots.  Ever.  He took more shots than Meeks, although they both shot about the same percentage.
  • Patrick Patterson mistimed virtually every jump today, and every time he did, Ole Miss got an offensive rebound.  I can't figure out why that happened, but it was so obvious it was surreal.  Perry Stevenson just took this game off.
  • Ramon Harris needs ... something.
  • I need a drink.

OK, well, that's that.  It's never fun to write postmortems about losses, and this one is no exception.  But lets give the Rebels their due -- they took this game with a grunt, grab and growl, and the 'Cats get to go home and dress their wounds -- especially the one to their reputation.

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The thing about liggins tonight...

that irritatedme more than anything else is that when the game was starting to wind down and we knew we needed something big to get us back, Liggins decided he was going to take over the game. Now, i appreciate the thought but i just kept yelling at the tv “Know your role!!”. Liggins is not the one we need taking over the game late.

by uk52 on Jan 27, 2009 9:48 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Re: The thing about liggins tonight

No kidding. To me it looked like he went to the Rajon Rondo school of basketball hogs. I am still shocked that Rondo is doing as well as he is with the Celtics (I guess he knows if he doesn’t distribute the ball there, his teammates will beat the hell out of him).

Hopefully BCG can teach him the basics of a good “lead” guard to 34, as I do like his speed.

Other than that, give credit to Ole Miss for last night, and hoefully the Cats will learn not to overlook a team.

by Dukesucks on Jan 28, 2009 5:26 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Terrico White and Malcolm White

They average 9.3 ppg and 5.7 ppg for a combined average of 15 ppg on the season.

TONIGHT they had 41 points combined. Ugh!

GBB!!!

by OGETARTS on Jan 27, 2009 9:48 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Yeah.

That really hurt.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Jan 27, 2009 9:49 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Both Are Very Capable Players

UK recruited Malcolm White a couple years ago.

by FortyYearCatFan on Jan 27, 2009 9:57 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Liggins Shots?

I saw the Game Stats link that said Liggins shot 16 times to Meeks 15 and Patterson’s 12. I know Liggins took a few ill-advised shots but 16? If that is true why did Coach leave him in the game? Was he trying to send Liggins a message? Why didn’t he put Porter or Galloway in? The team plays with more chemistry when they are in the game. After Liggins threw up wild treys, Stevenson threw up one and Harris launched two — when the game was still winnable. The point guard is supposed to get the players organized and focused, all playing together. Not panicking. There was no leadership on the floor during the last 10 critical minutes of the game. We have work to do.

by Fortunatus on Jan 27, 2009 9:56 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

A lot of them ...

… were taken at the end of the game when we needed threes. Meeks could not get looks.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Jan 27, 2009 10:00 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

What about other players?

Is Meeks the only player on our team who can shoot threes? If we have other players who can shoot threes at a point in the game when we need threes, why were they not in the game?

by Fortunatus on Jan 27, 2009 10:47 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree

I tink Liggins iverson’d us to death today. His bad shooting wasn’t limited to only the final few minutes. There were plenty of bad shots that he took that were the equivalent of turnovers.

In the past Billy would pull liggins after even one of those mistakes, yet suddenly today he left Liggins in to repeatedly make mistakes on the offensive end. Did porter play at all in the second half today? Even if he turned the ball over more, he would have at least not taken so many bad shots and would have tried to get the ball to patterson more (on a night like this when he was unstoppable, he went for long stretches without even touching the ball)

by schizm42 on Jan 28, 2009 1:11 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Liggins Shots?

What happened to Porter tonight? He disappeared after the first two minutes, and in my view, he’s been playing very heads up lately, esp. on D.

by Dukesucks on Jan 28, 2009 5:28 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I think you can chalk this loss up to a collective effort.,..

there is enough blame to go around whether it be offensively, defensively or rebounding-wise. Ole Miss had 4 players get at least 6 rebounds (8 with at least 5) and probably played as well as they are capable of playing. Not sure about the official stats but ESPN has Ole Miss with a 10 board advantage (not 5). I believe that UK was exposed in some sense by the fact that if you can make Jodie struggle, UK might struggle offensively. UK made up for a poor offensive shooting game by making 23 FT’s to 25 FG’s (2 FG’s coming in the final seconds on desperation 3’s).

Offensive rebounds were killers. Not sure how many 2nd chance points they got but they all hurt.

Slower Traffic Keep Right!

by SevenRings on Jan 27, 2009 10:00 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

The official stats show five.

I have no idea where ESPN came up with that number.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Jan 27, 2009 10:06 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I know Kentucky had ...

… a much better second half rebounding, and we were only down 14 boards at the half. I’m sure we made up a good number.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Jan 27, 2009 10:08 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

UK 23 Ole Miss 19

Per the ukathletics.com box score

...when you let other people tell you what success is, you already have no chance of ever finding it. - Doug Glanville

by JLeverenz on Jan 27, 2009 10:10 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

link

http://www.ukathletics.com/sports/m-baskbl/stats/2008-2009/uk0127.html

...when you let other people tell you what success is, you already have no chance of ever finding it. - Doug Glanville

by JLeverenz on Jan 27, 2009 10:11 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The difference might be due to "dead ball" rebounds

I’ve seen the 42-32 edge listed at ESPN, Yahoo, and CBS. Oddly enough, Yahoo has Miller with 10 and Patterson with 8 while the other two have 9 and 7 respectively.

...when you let other people tell you what success is, you already have no chance of ever finding it. - Doug Glanville

by JLeverenz on Jan 27, 2009 10:09 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

That would still be only ...

… a differential of eight.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Jan 27, 2009 10:17 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Thoughts

I agree with much of what you said Tru. A few additional thoughts of my own:

  • This was the 4th road game in 14 days with a home game in the middle. That’s a tough stretch and I think we saw the effects of it tonight. Fortunately, the Cats now have a stretch of home games and don’t have to leave Lexington until a Feb 14th game at Arkansas.
  • I thought Miller had a solid game overall. He did miss a lot of shots, but he also took a lot of shots which is what we’ve all been wanting him to do – you’ve got to expect this kind of a result from a freshman now and then. He continued to be solid on the boards and dished out 5 assists, so that’s good.
  • Liggins took too many shots and took too many shots early in the possession. I wonder if this is a result of not playing as much as maybe he should have back in late December.
  • I don’t care what the final rebounding numbers looked like – this was a terrible game and I’m surprised that Ole Miss only got 15 offensive rebounds, it seemed like a lot more. I’m also surprised they only got 19 second chance points.
  • Patterson should have touched the ball more. He had a very efficient night and it was good to see him score a lot. Maybe the team will get back to Patterson as the first option on offense as it should always be.

Ultimately the loss doesn’t bother me as much as the way the Cats played. It was a similar outing to the Alabama game except this time the defense didn’t show up. Too many drives and open looks at the basket. Not enough defensive rebounding. I don’t think we need to worry about those things because they have been solid most of the year. What does have me concerned is the offensive execution. That’s a recurrent problem and Gillispie needs to figure out how to make it better and soon.

...when you let other people tell you what success is, you already have no chance of ever finding it. - Doug Glanville

by JLeverenz on Jan 27, 2009 10:07 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I really don't think the 'Cats played that badly ...

… as much as they made assumptions about Ole Miss that turned out wrong. They were simply not mentally prepared for a game that physical, and as the old saying goes, “If you didn’t bring it with you, you wont find it when you get there.”

Kentucky didn’t bring a physical, dominating mindset with them. They were going to out-talent the Rebels, or so they imagined. As it turned out, it was only their imagination. :-)

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Jan 27, 2009 10:10 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I think it had a lot to do with being on the road for so long

That doesn’t excuse it of course, but it is understandable. Hopefully they learn the lesson and get better. This team is pretty good, but not so good they can afford to not show up for a game mentally.

...when you let other people tell you what success is, you already have no chance of ever finding it. - Doug Glanville

by JLeverenz on Jan 27, 2009 10:12 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Being on the road ...

… is definitely a factor.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Jan 27, 2009 10:15 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

C'mon guys...

…it has nothing to do with ‘being on the road’. This Ole Miss team is a terrible team…UK has so much more talent.

So why did they lose & look bad losing? Maybe the UK team isn’t as good as we think. Maybe the Ole Miss team is better than we think. Maybe the SEC isn’t really that weak.

No, the reason that the team lost and looked bad doing it was due to coaching….or lack thereof. What was he doing with the rotations? When will he be held accountable for the team starting out slowly game-after-game-after game? Don’t blame the team for this showing…surely Meeks will have a bad offensive game, but where is Billy making in game adjustments? What is he doing allowing Liggins to hoist that many shots for crying out loud? Where was Harrelson or Galloway?

This is bad in so many ways….it will kill the RPI. It was on ESPN where the rest of the country can witness this debacle. It certainly gives Florida and Tennessee some hope. I can’t see any silver lining whatsoever. And on top of all that, he makes himself look bad by being flippant and rude to the TV reporter at halftime. C’mon.

'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'

by HozeKing on Jan 27, 2009 10:45 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

well

there is a good opinion for all………not……hozeking ………..way to kick a fanbase when their down. I mean its not that bad. Good grief. Not many of us expected to go undefeated and Kentucky looked worn down. Everyone will have a bad game…….Western Kentucky sound familiar to you? They have played with alot of heart this season and one bad game isn’t going to ruin it.

by tenken on Jan 28, 2009 12:38 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Well...boo-hoo.

Just let me know how long I have to wait to comment before I hurt your feelings.

I am just saying there should be a concern with coaching. You don’t see a Coach K losing to a Florida State team this far into a conference schedule. You don’t see a Calhoun losing to a Seton Hall this far into a conference schedule. There is no reason a good team such as Kentucky as compared to the other teams within their conference lose to a really bad & under-manned team like this….and not only lose but look really bad doing it.

After the game he complains that Liggins shot the ball too much?!? Are you kidding me? There is an easy way to stop that during the game…sit him down. You can’t play Porter or Galloway? You haven’t yet coached a player like Galloway at this point where he can come in and at least ‘prevent’ Liggins from jacking it up?

To me it has little to do with Kentucky ‘not playing with heart’. During the season, every team has down games. It’s just that good coaches make adjustments against terrible teams to counter that….it didn’t happen this game and that is what should be concerning.

'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'

by HozeKing on Jan 28, 2009 6:21 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe you should have a concern

with Pitino,who lost to Seton Hall this time last year,this “deep” into the conference schedule.

by -Zoso- on Jan 28, 2009 6:37 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yea...

…if UofL would have been the class of the Big East last year and lost to Seton Hall….I sure as heck would have had a concern.

If the Cards would lose this year to Seton Hall while Preston Knowles jacked up 17 shots and then Pitino expressing concerns after the game about that….your darn right I’d have a concern.

'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'

by HozeKing on Jan 28, 2009 6:47 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Look, Hoze ...

… I have warned you before about coming in here after a loss and kicking sand in people’s eyes. This is the kind of comment that causes members to become angry and start losing their temper.

If you posted something like this on the Cats Pause, you would be immediately and permanently banned. No community appreciates fans of other schools, particularly bitter rivals, coming in after the game and trying to score points off them or their team, or even giving that appearance.

Kentucky is a marginal top 25 team at best, and it is susceptible to upsets, particularly during a long road swing like this. Two years ago, the entire ACC kicked Duke around, they lost to VCU (who?) in the first round of the tourney and nearly lost to mighty Belmont in the first round last year. I am waiting for your vilification of Coach K over those games. I can go on and on about every coach you mentioned. No, they don’t lose to those schools when they are in the top ten very often, but that is not the kind of team Kentucky has.

If Gillispie is to blame for last night, he is equally responsible for the fact that the ‘Cats are on their way back up, even if a bit haltingly. No, I don’t agree with every decision and neither should you or anyone else, but I don’t think many rational Kentucky fans would have raised the points you have raised. We always debate which players should play and when, but in the end, UK is winning many more than they are losing, so I think the coach has earned some latitude with respect to game management and decision-making.

I know it’s a double-standard, but it is one thing for a UK fan to complain about UK coaching and quite another thing for a fan of a rival school to come in and make the same criticism immediately after a loss when tempers are frayed. That may not seem fair, but it is the nature of partisanship.

So please, be considerate. The above post was not considerate, even if the points you made are debatable.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Jan 28, 2009 8:54 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm getting really, really tired of reading anything posted from HozeKing

…. and I would imagine a lot of others here at ASoB are getting tired of his crap too. If he wants to come here and discuss the game politely, that’s fine. I do welcome fans from other schools. I think they can add a lot to the discussion. But when HozeKing comes here to rub salt in the wounds and slams our coach after a tough loss, that’s uncalled and irritates the heck out of me.

GBB!!!

by OGETARTS on Jan 28, 2009 9:54 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Disagree with ya Tru

I don’t think Hozeking said anything a true Cats fan wouldn’t say after a very bad loss. (Secretly we know he’s a die hard Cats fan but only has this outlet to vent his frustration; his Cards friends don’t share his love for Cats.)
The double standard is unfair in that it seemed to be instituted only because he is a UL fan that said BCG needs to be held “accountable”. Many of the points he made could have easily been made by one of us and being accountable is part of his job. We’ve all seen posts directing overly harsh comments toward players so the head coach, especially, should not be above the fray – that’s why he makes the big bucks. We’ve all seen some decisions by BCG that were really head scratchers – The Gillespie D’fect – so we should hold the coach accountable. Tru, you comments and others point to several areas where BCG may have been less than we expect and Hozeking brought these points together into a single statement and for that got barbequed.
Don’t get me wrong – there’s not another coach I’d rather have at Kentucky than BCG and I hope he stays for many years. When he was hired away from Texas A&M (as I hoped) I sent my best friend, an Aggie alum, two fifths of Jim Beam and will continue to send him a fifth/year as long as BCG stays at Kentucky. He has turned the program around and I see nothing but success in the future. We should never avoid questioning anything a coach does and sometimes that observation can be made by someone outside the Blue Blooded Fanbase (even if they’re Red Blooded). Where’s the love?

by hoboat33 on Jan 28, 2009 3:50 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

good points (from you and hoze)

but i also think it’s a bit of the “nobody makes fun of my little brother but me.” especially right after a loss. :-)

GO BIG BLUE!! GO BIG BLUE!!

by UKWildCatFanatic on Jan 28, 2009 8:13 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Does that mean..

..someone here is going to have to adopt Hoze into the Blue family?!! ’-)

by hoboat33 on Jan 28, 2009 10:58 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

not quite brothers :)

reminds of a scene from Psych:

Shawn and Gus are talking to Det. Lassiter (the Cards in this example)

Shawn: You’re like our brother.
Gus: [Shakes head]
Shawn: Step-brother?
Gus: [Shakes head again]
Shawn: Weird kid who lives down the street and eats nothing but mayonnaise on saltines?

GO BIG BLUE!! GO BIG BLUE!!

by UKWildCatFanatic on Jan 28, 2009 11:10 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Disagreement is always welcome.

I do understand that his criticism of Gillispie is similar to what any fine UK fan might say, and my point was not that it is OK for a UK fan to say it and not him.

My point is that after a game, tempers are raw, and I have been around blogs and message boards a very long time. In order for me to maintain the pleasant atmosphere of this blog, I have to take into account aspects that others don’t. It’s easy to say I am setting a bit of a double standard, and I am, but not in the way you think.

It’s all about tone, its not really about content. Fans of other schools can’t come in here and blast Coach Gillispie in a highly negative tone. They just can’t, I won’t allow it to pass without comment. Most UK fans will stew about it when fans of other schools do that, and some will post an angry reply. If you have ever been over at The Cats Pause when that happens, you will note that the moderators will instantly ban the offender. They have no tolerance for other fans coming in and laying into Gillispie, because they know full well what happens if they do — a flamewar will erupt 100% of the time. I am much more tolerant, but I do monitor it closely and speak up as soon as I see potential trouble. That’s part of my job.

The other part was his sarcastic remark, and this part is intended for everybody. Sarcasm directed at members like that is not a good thing after a loss, it angers the target and sometimes prompts others to jump in. I don’t want that. I want polite, rational discussion, and if that requires a double standard to ensure, I am all about that.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Jan 29, 2009 6:03 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Well let me remind everyone...

…I could have disguised my allegiences from the get go. I could have even embedded a photo of a blue wildcat on my signature photo. I didn’t do that, rightly thinking that complete transparency on ‘who I am’ is a good thing for all. I just don’t think it is entirely fair that my comments are sometimes held to a higher standard than others. I’ll give you an example….

When I often bring up a point, I get something to the effect of ‘…yea, what do you say about Pitino when UofL lost to Seton Hall back in 2006?…’ Now I don’t necessarily have an issue with that, but I have yet to see a concern with the ‘tone’ of those type of responses….no big deal mind you to me…but I’d like to get a little leeway once in awhile.

Regardless, if you all think I don’t offer a different, or knowledgeable, or a unique perspective and I become only a ‘Troll’ (I was called that name below…I have never name called), just let me know and I won’t continue…..either that or I wil comeback as WildCat Jack with a clever signature and fool you all. :)

'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'

by HozeKing on Jan 29, 2009 9:20 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Fair enough.

Just think of me as the Wishmaster — Granted! :-)

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Jan 29, 2009 2:34 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

It bothers me to think that you might have actually watched that movie at some point...

Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."

by chirop1 on Jan 29, 2009 2:43 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, yes.

Actually, it has some very interesting aspects. It is wrong in it’s ridiculous made-up concoction of the djinni, but there is at least one somewhat similar horror fiction novel by Graham Masterton, only much, much better.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Jan 29, 2009 11:01 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Daggone...I have no idea what you are referencing

…and I am feeling obligated to watch it.

'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'

by HozeKing on Jan 29, 2009 9:35 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

A B-horror flick.

Wishmaster has a bit of a cult following, though, and actually made money and spawned three sequels.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Jan 29, 2009 11:03 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

You

did not hurt my feelings you pissed me off but did not hurt my feelings. I have met some fine Cardinal fans that are kinda arrogant but still would not rub in anyones face about losing a game like that. Your “deep into the season” comment doesn’t shake off that your team still lost to Western Kentucky…….a team that you should have beaten. Does that mean its danger time in UofL …….no it doesn’t. Yall bounced back and are doing great. That was my point. If we lose two or three more then I am concerned but not now. Like Tru said, its not that your points have no validity its that you rub it in at a raw time. That is just not cool. We know that we aren’t top notch right now and that we working our way up. Not one person on this whole ASofB has said Kentucky is the best team in the country. Heck, how do you explain Carolina losing to Boston College? Even THE best team has bad games. So get off your high horse please and join us in decent discussion.

by tenken on Jan 28, 2009 10:10 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Duke doesn't lose to Florida State? You mean like in 2006, 2007,...

And that’s just losses to the actual Florida State. There are plenty of other Duke losses to teams “like” Florida State (Wake Forest last year, Virginia in 07, Virginia Tech in 05…

If you think a team playing it’s 4th road game out of 5 (and 4th in 14 days) doesn’t have an effect on performance, well, then you must not watch a lot of college basketball.

...when you let other people tell you what success is, you already have no chance of ever finding it. - Doug Glanville

by JLeverenz on Jan 28, 2009 10:14 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Jeez...

My apologies. I just don’t see where I was rude. I have given this team props all year long. In fact, I have complimented Gillispie on improving the team….I could go on.

My only point…try as I might was this….I didn’t see the coach making in game adjustments and I think there has been an issue with having the team starting out games strongly.

Email me the parameters on what I can say and when I can say it. I comment pretty much after every game whether they win or lose. I think I am pretty balanced. If someone is ‘offfended’ maybe it’s partly do to that person as well. Cripes.

'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'

by HozeKing on Jan 28, 2009 10:20 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

...and one more thing...I NEVER mentioned UofL...you all did.

'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'

by HozeKing on Jan 28, 2009 10:21 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

ok

if I had said what you had said or another Kentucky fan had said it then you know ……no one would be offended most likely………but you ARE NOT a Kentucky fan. Just use good judgement. I have enjoyed your threads for the most part. Just put yourself in our place. That always helps when deciding on whether to say something or not.

by tenken on Jan 28, 2009 10:24 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Hey as a UofL fan...

…I’ve been in worse places that you . :) I’ll do my best, but I’ll ask you to view my comments on their own basis….not whether or not I am a ‘UofL fan’. I am a college basketball fan….I rarely rub it in (and in my mind that would be comparing UofL’s team against UK, or laughing about a loss, etc.).

…and now that I think about it…I don’t think I have ever rubbed it in or ‘kicked sand in someone’s face’. Ever on this site.

'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'

by HozeKing on Jan 28, 2009 10:30 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm certain ...

… you weren’t trying to make trouble. I believe that. What I also know is that extremely harsh criticism of coaching after a loss is not welcomed from fans of another team. I’m sorry if you find that unfair, but life is like that.

Combine that with a sarcastic snark, and you force me to say something. I do this not just for your benefit, but for everyone’s benefit. We have people who are UK fans who do as bad or worse, and it is very disruptive to good discussion.

I don’t like hyper-critical comments calling for “accountability” from anyone. You see that all the time on other fora, and it always degenerates into a personal flamewar. I am determined to keep this blog free of that. Accountability is the province of the UK athletic department, and demands for that should be directed to them, not here. As fans, we can surely discuss Gillispie’s shortcomings reasonably, but I draw the line at reflexive criticism that makes no attempt at fairness to both sides of an issue except to the extent of occasional venting.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Jan 28, 2009 11:09 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'll give you a hint:
Well…boo-hoo.
Just let me know how long I have to wait to comment before I hurt your feelings.

Why the gratuitous sarcasm? I mean, look Hoze, this thing is not that hard. It truly isn’t. Don’t provoke people after a loss. Don’t. You don’t need parameters for that, and if you need them for how to behave in a polite forum … well, I just know you’re smarter than that. The best guideline to use is this: “Would I say this to the host of a party I barely know who was kind enough to invite me?” If the answer is ‘’No,’’ don’t say it here.

Surely, surely this is obvious to you. You cannot possibly be that tone-deaf. Remember Patrick Swayze’s instructions to his ’’coolers’’ in Roadhouse — ‘’Be nice.’’ That’s all you have to do.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Jan 28, 2009 10:57 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah Hoze. You're not like him at all,

but if you come in here after losses and be snarky or too critical, even if there is some truth to your comments (and I agree with you, Gillispie didn’t make in-game adjustments, especially in the second half, it was your tone that wasn’t appreciated), you run the risk of becoming “LouisvilleFanCraig” from the KSR blog. You’re above that, and I think that’s why Tru is giving you the stern warning.

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.

by blbskue on Jan 28, 2009 11:55 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'll take that as an insult :)

….I’ve read his comments at times and they are WAY out of line. I’ve made a conscience decision to not take part of that blog.

'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'

by HozeKing on Jan 28, 2009 1:52 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't believe I ever said you were rude

You made a factually incorrect statement:

You don’t see a Coach K losing to a Florida State team this far into a conference schedule

That I corrected. You also stated an opinion in regard to a contributing cause to the loss:

…it has nothing to do with ‘being on the road’.

I disagree with that and I think it’s rather foolish and naive to discount the effect of a long series of road games on a team. This is based on experience watching and reading about a lot of college basketball, not just UK.

You should perhaps try not to be so defensive when people disagree with you.

...when you let other people tell you what success is, you already have no chance of ever finding it. - Doug Glanville

by JLeverenz on Jan 28, 2009 11:55 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Fair enough...

…I agree that the boo-hoo comment was a little out of line. But I think at times I am held at a little higher standard….I’m not saying I shouldn’t be, but I am and I get that. Maybe I should change my photo and I wouldn’t be subjected to the higher scrutiny, but I think complete transparency is fairer than not. :)

'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'

by HozeKing on Jan 28, 2009 1:50 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

HozeKing

I kind of feel for ol’ HozeKing SOMETIMES. I think that overall he is a pretty level headed and fair person. I dont think that he intentionally tries to (pardon the pun) ruffle feathers. I think it is an issue of timing. I, myself, know that I am NOT in a good frame of mind after a loss and being a HUGE Billy G. fan, I dont like to hear ANYONE say ANYTHING that could be taken as remotely BCG bashing. I think HozeKing is alright though. He makes more of an effort on here than many rival fans would. I think that after the number of times he has been reprimanded for things he has said that others may have just left the site altogether. I DO think that he is a “closet” UK fan, though ;)

by kentuckygirl0724 on Jan 29, 2009 2:51 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

(...shedding a tear here...)

'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'

by HozeKing on Jan 29, 2009 9:39 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

See?

You’re actually more welcome than you think. Feel the love.

Only not for that … avatar. :-)

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Jan 29, 2009 11:05 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Avatar

Yeah the avatar pretty much sucks ;)

by kentuckygirl0724 on Jan 30, 2009 12:09 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Just re-read my own post..

…I’ll blame it a little on a few adult beverages during a late dinner after a late work day here in Philly. On the other hand, I would rate my comments as having revealed a little anger or frustrations than ‘rubbing’ it in on anybody.

Plus, I was a stll little ticked with those half time comments…I think he and whom he represents are better than a ‘Knight-like’ response to a reporter…and a lady reporter at that. Sorry if I aggravated anyone.

'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'

by HozeKing on Jan 28, 2009 2:02 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

That's fine.

Perfectly reasonable.

One thing, though. Gillispie may have been rude to Edwards, but her question was sophomoric and, quite frankly, showed a remarkable lack of understanding of either Gillsipie in particular or college basketball in general. He frequently makes similar remarks to call-in shows when they ask him questions of a similar nature, and the reason is to emphasize that this is not about individuals, it is about the team. It was obvious that ESPN was emphasizing Meeks at the expense of the rest of his players, and that gets under his skin.

But he could have been more tactful, no doubt.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Jan 28, 2009 3:51 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Pitt lost to Providence last night

And UNC needed a last second three to beat your prime example Florida State.

Things happen in conference play that you don’t expect.

That said, I don’t necessarily disagree with you. I do blame Gillispie for this loss. I think he’s an excellent coach when it comes to creating a team that sees itself as a team… I think he leaves a little to be desired once the ball is tipped. But that’s just me.

Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."

by chirop1 on Jan 29, 2009 1:30 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Offensive Rebounds

seem to come mostly off shots missed by a penetrating guard or forward. Meeks penetrates, draws the center over to defend, misses the shot, but Patterson or Stevenson gets the jam. A Meeks penetrating — getting by his primary defender — getting the big guy in the middle to shift — throwing up a soft shot — giving Patterson a chance to stuff — that’s as good as an assist. Last year, Bradley and Crawford provided many offensive rebounding opportunities; this year we don’t have players who can provide them at the same level.

by Fortunatus on Jan 27, 2009 10:35 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly.

Our defensive rotation was off tonight. We tended to overrotate and wind up leaving players wide open. I saw many occasions where both Pat and Perry rotated to the block and left their man.

You have to trust your teammate.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Jan 27, 2009 10:39 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Offensive futility...

If I looked at the play by play correctly, Patterson scored a field goal at the 7:29 mark and UK did not make another field goal until Stephenson made a layup at the 1:56 mark. There were FT’s made between then but no FG’s. The next made FG came at the :35 mark when things were basically over. That is not typical but UK has to do a better job of executing offense down the stretch in tight games.

Slower Traffic Keep Right!

by SevenRings on Jan 27, 2009 10:25 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Yeah.

That’s true. I think we have to stop looking for Meeks and let him be a decoy. Our other players are just going to have to step up. If they don’t , we’re going to lose.

I think it’s really about that simple.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Jan 27, 2009 10:31 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Meeks

has to do a better job finding the open man when he is triple teamed.

DEEETROIT BASKETBALLL!!!

by davw83 on Jan 27, 2009 10:53 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Miller: 12 points, 9 rebounds and 5 assists

He had a solid game. It wasn’t great, but it was better then he has played in a long time. I hope he can build on this game and continue to improve. We’re going to need him as we get into Feb and March.

GBB!!!

by OGETARTS on Jan 27, 2009 10:31 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

His jumper looked a little better tonight.

Not a lot, but a little.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Jan 27, 2009 10:32 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

That's the good thing about Miller

Even if he isn’t scoring, he contributes strongly in other categories. He also had a block tonight. I think as he gets used to looking to shoot more we’ll see his FG% increase. In the meantime he does a lot to help in other areas.

...when you let other people tell you what success is, you already have no chance of ever finding it. - Doug Glanville

by JLeverenz on Jan 27, 2009 10:38 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

He also had 5 assists.

Not bad, that. 3 TO’s but he isn’t a point guard.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Jan 27, 2009 10:40 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

It's a Team Game

And we didn’t look like a team tonight.

by Fortunatus on Jan 27, 2009 10:49 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Losses

The UK faithful is going to have face losses such as this once and a while under BG.

Kennedy’s game plan was to face guard Meeks with one guy, crowd the lane with the other 4 in a zone, then converge on Meeks or Patterson when they get the ball and hope the rest of the team will not know what to do. And it worked to a T. Kennedy is not a genius, this is the same defense we have faced for the last three games (all of which we looked bad on defense), but this time the opposing team had longer to implement it and they executed it well enough to win.

Offensively, they employed moving screens, which the refs refused to call tonight (unlike the ALA game). They also repeatedly got Patterson out of the middle by moving his man a little bit outside just a second before someone drove to the lane. Patterson, playing man D, would move outside just a bit and then have to run back into the lane. More often or not he was too late. Again Kennedy is not a genius. This is a very old play designed to defeat man defense, but only works if one of your big men can hit an outside shot and you KNOW that the defense is not switching back and forth between man and matchup zone. The fact that Ole Miss was able to run this play over and over was very frustrating.

BG’s game plan is simple. Play man D, get the ball to the best offensive players at auspicious moments. With very good athletes in very good shape and executing well, this WILL win many games, even if the opposing side knows exactly what is going to happen. But, sometimes, like tonight, lesser teams are going to win because they execute their counter-strategy better than we execute our game plan.

The crazy thing is,with a second reliable outside scorer, Ole Miss could not have beaten us. Period. They couldn’t have crowed the lane like that and they couldn’t have focused on PP and Meeks as much. This is why everyone has been talking about the elusive “third scorer.”

the REAL fake Mr. Bob Dobalina
Formerly known as "senowen"

by bluesquire on Jan 28, 2009 12:11 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

I think

that you did a good job summarizing things Tru. The shots weren’t falling. We weren’t consistently tough on defense. It bit us in the rear tonight. I mean how rarely do we see Meeks miss that many? Its going to happen. But it gets them focused for South Carolina who will be very very tough. In this case a loss humbles them. I don’t know if this team is mentally ready or mature enough to handle spotlight.

by tenken on Jan 28, 2009 12:41 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

This is not a top 25 Team

A top 25 team would not lose to a depleted Ole Miss team even on the road… Not taking anything away from Ole Miss, they out played us in every part of the game and Andy K put on a coaching clinic for Billy G… Hey Billy it was a box in one did you not see that coming? As good as our defense has been in this stretch is as bad as it was against Ole Miss… I do not have an issue with Liggins having that many shot attempts but they need to be off the dribble drives as this kid is not an outside shooter at all… I still do not understand not getting any playing time at all out of Galloway or Harrelson? Utilize the bench as that is and should be one of our strengths… This is a very bad loss… With USC, Miss St, Florida, at Ark, at Vandy, UT and at USC we will see what we truly have or have not… I think 4 and 3 wil be about as good as it gets for this stretch… Can four or five losses win the conference??? Five or six seed is probably right for this team… Go Cats…

ShagOnSports - "people should know when they are conquered"

by ShagOnSports on Jan 28, 2009 4:02 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

I think

these are young players and even our older ones are not used to being in the top twenty five with a big huge target on their back. They did not play their game last night and the shots did not fall. Liggins/ Miller showed their youth last night. Outside of this cincy crap, Kennedy is a darn good coach and if allowed will make Ole Miss a contender. Those guys put it all on the table last night. (ole miss)

by tenken on Jan 28, 2009 10:17 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The Curse of the Rankings

As hard as this team has worked all year, as soon as we get into the top 25, we lose to an inferior team. I am so disappointed that I could drink my Southern Comfort without ice. I wasn’t able to see the whole game, our cable went out last night about 5 minutes into the first half & didn’t come back on until there was about 7 minutes left in the game, but what I was able to see was a disjointed affair masquerading as a “team”. Ole Miss was able to take Meeks out of the equation (although with so many misses he helped tremendously) & our second option, PPat didn’t seem to be in sync either. That leaves us pretty much exposed to the world because no one, except on the rare occasion, Stephenson, has the ability to step up. And trust me fellow bluesmen, from here on, stepping up becomes the name of the game.

I admit that I am still puzzled by BCG & his coaching. Most teams have a reliable rotation of players. Players know their roles (or not-Liggins) & what situations they may be called on to perform. I don’t see that, in any way, shape or form here at Kentucky. Don’t get me wrong, I love my Cats, have for 40 years, & always will, but I don’t get the coach’s overall system, other than man-to-man defense, which can be overcome with good screening. And if you question him, coach gets an attitude which is quite rude, crude & socially unattractive. It just makes me wonder.

by Bluegilla on Jan 28, 2009 7:51 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

BCG's coaching

I think everyone can agree, regardless of whether you like him or not, that BCG definitely employs some “unconventional” tactics with regard to substitution patterns, etc. And it has, on more than one occassion, led to some losses that leave everyone scratching their heads. That is all well and good, if you are building up to something, or sending a message, that you think will pay off come tournament time.

But as Forty is wont to point out, BCG’s record in the post-season is not that strong. So until he actually proves that his strategy leads to something better at the end of the year, color me skeptical. Not opposed, let me be clear, but not convinced either. Those that criticize the coach definitely have grounds for their argument.

Losing sucks.

C! A! T! S! CATS! CATS! CATS!

by NYCCats on Jan 28, 2009 8:57 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Valid

point………I think that concerns alot of people. BCG is hard to figure out but I keep telling myself so was Rick P and he did great things for UK.

by tenken on Jan 28, 2009 10:18 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Postseason Results

Coach BCG is unproven, not necessarily bad. But he is Below .500 (W-L % record) in postseason tourney and NCAA or NIT so far.

Given talent (TAMU in 2007) he did pretty well. Not great, just pretty well.

UK coaches are expected to deliver Great postseason results.

by FortyYearCatFan on Jan 28, 2009 12:01 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I dont'

know the history but didn’t he rebuild programs and then move on? So what is his record. The one I remember is the game against UofL which I loeve :)

by tenken on Jan 28, 2009 1:16 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Off The Top Of My Head

5-5 in NCAA (3-4) or NIT (2-1) plus 4-6 in postseason conference tourneys.

Compare that to Pitino at Boston U and Providence (pre UK) or Tubby at Tulsa and Georgia (pre UK). You’ll find both had well Above .500 (W-L %) record in postseason play (pre UK).

by FortyYearCatFan on Jan 28, 2009 1:34 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The players on the floor were not the problem.

The problem was that they were unable to defend Ole Miss, and unable to rebound well enough to make up for the fact that Meeks got held down.

One thing UK fans have to do is recognize when we run into a motivated team that plays exceptionally, and quit blaming that solely on the UK team. Yes, UK did not play their best game of the season, but Ole Miss executed brilliantly. They may be “inferior” in talent, but last night, they used all the talent they had to their best advantage, and Kentucky was unable to match their intensity or their level of execution.

UK lost some of its composure at the end, but that wasn’t the problem. The problem was the middle of the game, where UK simply could not stop Ole Miss and could not get rebounds. I don’t think any other players on our squad would have done any better.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Jan 28, 2009 9:02 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't disagree the Ole Miss deserved it.

They played better, harder, etc. But I think it was clear that certain members of the team were just not getting it done in the second half. Whether that was because Ole Miss was playing better or UK was playing worse is really immaterial – the fact is, there were other players on the bench that have performed well (or reasonably well) for us in the past that did not hardly sniff the court. That is, and always will be, a coaching decision.

C! A! T! S! CATS! CATS! CATS!

by NYCCats on Jan 28, 2009 9:08 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

the = that

C! A! T! S! CATS! CATS! CATS!

by NYCCats on Jan 28, 2009 9:09 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I think ...

… Gillispie has earned some latitude in coaching decisions. He has from me, at least.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Jan 28, 2009 9:36 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

exactly

one loss doesn’t diminish what he has accomplished from a team that was picked to finish third in the SEC East. That could still happen but I hope and don’t think that it will. I know we are “Kentucky” but he is building a team right now.

by tenken on Jan 28, 2009 10:03 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Here

is my question……why is it that teams can score so many threes on us? Is it our defensive positioning?

by tenken on Jan 28, 2009 10:19 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

We don't ...

… put enough pressure on the perimeter. That enables us to help more inside, but it allows teams to get more open looks from three.

What we have here is a trade-off. Defensive rotation is easier if you don’t overplay the perimeter. It also prevents guards from dashing into the paint and forcing defensive rotation, or should. Ole Miss was able to do both, but the real problem is that we too often overrotated on defense and wound up leaving people open underneath.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Jan 28, 2009 10:22 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

thanks

for the explanation. That makes sense.

by tenken on Jan 28, 2009 10:27 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

There is a word for people like HozeKing\...

who go onto message boards and post antagonistic comments – TROLL! He is looking for an argument plain and simple.

Slower Traffic Keep Right!

by SevenRings on Jan 28, 2009 1:59 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Upon Further Review

Usually watch a game 3 times prior to commenting but couldn’t bring myself to watch for a third so 2 will have to do, besides it didn’t take long to see the primary problem: lack of competition, but a bit longer for specifics:

1) For the first time in awhile — possibly since first half vs Hurricanes — Cats didn’t compete consistently. The flavor of the game was defined on Rebs’ first score when Huertas received the ball on the wing, received no pressure, drove across the lane, was fouled by late-arriving help and made 2 FT’s. Camera switched to Gillispie whose gestures were: What’s this? The effort and focus typified play the rest of the way. Fact is Cats were not mentally prepared. Coach’s responsibility but it happens at all levels and if one had a preventive concoction or procedure he would be wealthy.

2) Despite Coach’s and others’ denial UK is basically a 2-man team and until some other player develops Cats are easily defended. Expect others to copy Kennedy’s game plan, question is can others execute it as well.

3) Position by position Ole Miss has equal talent as UK. Obviously Patterson and Meeks are better but at the other 3 positions Rebs have greater physical/athletic ability although they do lack a bit in experience. Further confirmation — as if any is needed — that Porter, Stevenson and Harris (60% of starting lineup) are not the caliber of athlete required to play for an elite team.

4) Liggins increased minutes leads me to believe that Coach has made the decision that if Cats are to be as good as they can be and have a modicum of post-season success Liggins must be at the point. IMO that’s why there isn’t the usual level of criticism and it’s a state that Coach will live through. I’m not sure I can, but trust that end justifies means.

5) Continue to be impressed and pleased with improved play of Miller. Providing Patterson and Meeks return Miller will be that elusive third player next season. Whether he can do it this year is problematic and probably too much for which to hope.

6) Back to the first point on competition. UK’s success thus far is a tribute to effort over ability, toughness over talent, want-to over able-to, or, if you will, overachieving. Perusing the remaining schedule there are few, if any, games that Cats can emerge victorious without overachieving and relentless competing. It’s an unfortunate truth that there are a select few teams with talent enough to occasionally coast to victory but, alas, UK isn’t one of them…yet.

by Wild Weasel on Jan 28, 2009 2:17 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Good stuff. #1 says it all. You could almost have saved the rest.

Kentucky was not ready to compete. They were prepared for a down team and got a tough, determined one. That is a failure to mentally prepare.

The only reason Kentucky is a 2 man team is because the rest of the team is afraid to do anything. They are not aggressive on offense, they almost fear to take an open jump shot. I lost count of how many open 15 footers Stevenson turned down. These guys have to quit looking for Meeks and Patterson so much and just look for whoever is open, and work to get good looks. They don’t, and that makes us a 2-man team.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Jan 28, 2009 3:57 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Missing #7

Ole Miss executed its game plan very well.

In most athletic contests (not all), the team that executes better, wins.

by FortyYearCatFan on Jan 28, 2009 4:01 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Alluded In #2

Execution is key of course especially when talent level is approximately the same. Alluded to here:

Expect others to copy Kennedy’s game plan, question is can others execute it as well.

by Wild Weasel on Jan 28, 2009 4:20 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Regarding #3 Above

Why not play Liggins, Harrellson, and Galloway then? Maybe not “elite” players?

by FortyYearCatFan on Jan 28, 2009 3:26 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Questionably Elite

Little doubt in my mind that Harrellson and Galloway aren’t elite players and were caught-in-a-pinch recruiting mistakes although Harrellson with 3 years of eligibility has time to improve just not likely to elite status. Liggins has even more time and more upside but with limitations. You didn’t mention Miller but I expect him to reach UK quality soon.

by Wild Weasel on Jan 28, 2009 4:28 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I Think Galloway Should Be Elite (Memphis Wanted Him)

But you can’t elite sitting on the bench.

I consider Miller an Elite player, no doubt.

by FortyYearCatFan on Jan 28, 2009 4:52 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

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