Kill the Fatted Calf, Kentucky is Ranked Again!

by Truzenzuzex on Jan 26, 2009 4:40 PM EST in Commentary Comment 55 comments

The UK men's basketball team is finally ranked again in the AP poll for the first time in the regular season since October 29th, 2007. It has been a long dry spell for the Wildcats, something that Kentucky fans are not really (and don't want to get) used to. So now most of the hand-wringing has stopped, although some are still put out a bit by reason of the fact that the Wildcats remain unranked in the coach's poll.

Many people will tell you that being ranked isn't important, but that is not true. The reason is, rankings are the way that teams get press attention, and press attention helps recruiting. Why do you think the rich get richer? Is it because Roy Williams is a warm, fuzzy father figure, or Mike Krzyzewski is an American Express salesman and leadership guru, or that maybe John Calipari cooks a mean mostaccioli when the team visits his home? Nah. The teams they coach get on TV and play big, important games, and players on TV in big, important games get lots of love from the NBA scouts. Reporters write about these teams, and the players on them. NBA scouts listen. It isn't that hard to figure.

So despite the constant assertion by coaches that rankings don't mean anything, do not be deceived. No coach wants a ranking to become a distraction to a team that is playing well, which is why so many of them publicly decry the rankings and say weird things like "we don't deserve to be ranked [so high]" and so forth. But when they are at home with their thoughts, they know that being ranked helps recruiting by raising the profile of the program, and an already high-profile program like Kentucky being out of the rankings for a long time creates the perception of a problem. Recruits want to play for national championships, not solve the problems of an underachieving program.

So while I am personally ambivalent about what our position in the rankings actually means, the fact that Kentucky finds itself there again is a very good thing. Far more important, however, is that they stay there, and there are ~~twelve~~ eleven teams in the SEC who would like to arrange for UK to find their way back into the purgatory of the NR's. Gillispie knows that, and he can't let the team lose focus.

You can bet, though, that when he is alone with his thoughts, the little man inside Billy G.'s head is doing a few cartwheels now that the 'Cats are back in the polls.

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ahh

I’ve missed the poll watching and scheming to see who to root against to improve/protect our ranking

by BigBlue87 on Jan 26, 2009 5:11 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

That's something I didn't really think about

since it’s been awhile, but I enjoy that too. It makes me much more interested in the national scene during conference play.

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.

by blbskue on Jan 26, 2009 5:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Count me as one....

who thinks it is very important for UK to be ranked and stay ranked. After all this is UK we are talking about. As you pointed out it gives UK more press and certainly can influence recruits. Not to mention it soothes the fragile psyche of the BBN.

Slower Traffic Keep Right!

by SevenRings on Jan 26, 2009 5:30 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

It is huge...

to be ranked again. Anyone who says otherwise needs to think twice. The perception of the UK program around the nation needs a jolt of energy, and being ranked is the best way to do it. Recruits are greatly influenced by the perception of a program. This is very important

by DeadHeadCat on Jan 26, 2009 6:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Keep it up...

As long as we continue to perform, and don’t quickly lose, a la Florida last week. Lets keep up the winning, and go, one game at a time.

by JRod1229 on Jan 26, 2009 5:42 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Purgatory

I thought only eleven teams in the SEC wanted to send us back into purgatory.

by oldkentucky on Jan 26, 2009 7:02 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

OH, all right.

Thanks for the correction. :-)

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Jan 26, 2009 7:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Being ranked is one of those things UK fans take for granted. We, or at least I, didn't appreciate ...

… being ranked as much as I should have, until we weren’t ranked for what seemed like eons.

I think Tru and everyone who has commented are right on about the importance of the ranking. Now, keeping and raising the ranking should be the focus.

With the schedule UK has, they could find themselves in the top 15 or so pretty quickly. I think that’s when G needs to watch for signs that the team is resting on their laurels … of course there’s a couple of guys named Patterson and Meeks who will do a good job of policing that type of stuff.

Congrats to G and the guys. It’s much deserved.

by Ken Howlett on Jan 26, 2009 11:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

We need to get the list of the coaches in the coaches poll

…and schedule them. Then we’ll get some votes. 8’)

by EEWildcat on Jan 26, 2009 9:15 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

UK Would Get More Votes When/If The Cats Beat Ranked Teams

That’s a big factor, I think.

by FortyYearCatFan on Jan 26, 2009 10:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Kinda hard

when there are no ranked teams in your conference.

by EEWildcat on Jan 26, 2009 10:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Understand

But that’s how UK will earn more votes.

by FortyYearCatFan on Jan 27, 2009 6:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

As long as you know who sits atop the coaches' association....UK is not going to get much respect. Those guys sit around in the off season snuggling up and stroking each other and when their poll comes out....bingo, all of their buddies are there!!

by FOXTRAIL on Jan 27, 2009 9:32 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

That's Balderdash

The head of the Coaches’ Association has ZERO to do with who’s ranked or not.

by FortyYearCatFan on Jan 27, 2009 12:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

We don't do ...

… Tubby bashing around here.

I know you are new, but please refrain. We have had enough of that lately.

Thanks for your cooperation.

The management.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Jan 27, 2009 1:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

A Noble Goal

I certainly applaud “the management” in their attempt to rein in conversation regarding the pros and cons of UK’s previous regime. Lack of such is one reason I frequent ASoB but until you curtail the thinly disguised — usually by use of statistical spin — attempts at revision of history you’re likely to receive counterpoints.

by Wild Weasel on Jan 27, 2009 2:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

He's tried

And in all fairness… " the thinly disguised — usually by use of statistical spin — attempts at revision of history" are generally in response to someone else’s thinly disguised comments.

We’d all be better off if we could focus on what Pitino once called the “precious present.”

Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."

by chirop1 on Jan 27, 2009 2:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Amen, brother.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Jan 27, 2009 3:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

OK Then

UK is 34-17 under Billy Gillispie.

What’s past is over.

by FortyYearCatFan on Jan 27, 2009 4:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

To stay ranked

To stay ranke UK must win both games this week… With Notre Dame fading and Georgetown at six losses then UK could crack the top 20 with two wins this week… These right now are the two biggest games of the year… Go Cats!!!

ShagOnSports - "people should know when they are conquered"

by ShagOnSports on Jan 26, 2009 10:07 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Great title for post

Thought I’d but a gut when I first read it. Very apropos.

by hoboat33 on Jan 26, 2009 10:53 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Rankings

also help to get better seeds in the NCAA tourney. With a solid showing in the SEC and SECT we could get and decent draw and possibly make some noise in March.

Still not a crook!

by TrickyD26 on Jan 27, 2009 12:10 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Just Win Baby!!!

To quote Al Davis… The way to silence the critics is just keep up the pace… Win the SEC and win the SEC Tourney and this team can work it’s way up to a three seed even in our weak a#$ conference ;o)

ShagOnSports - "people should know when they are conquered"

by ShagOnSports on Jan 27, 2009 7:09 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Wasn't it great seeing David Hobbs on Sat...guess he doesn't have a job anymore..must be living off of investments from the Tubby era!!

by FOXTRAIL on Jan 27, 2009 9:35 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

False

Hobbs is an NBA scout now.

I figure you were spewing Anti-Tubby Hatred by your comment above.

by FortyYearCatFan on Jan 27, 2009 12:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Mmmmm....Fatted Calf......

< drools >

by JLeverenz on Jan 27, 2009 9:48 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

ROFL

Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."

by chirop1 on Jan 27, 2009 10:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

AP voter breakdown from KSR

http://new.kentuckysportsradio.com/?p=13054

Pretty interesting. Vitale ranks us at 14!

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.

by blbskue on Jan 27, 2009 11:38 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I meant 15. Some other guy has us at 14.

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.

by blbskue on Jan 27, 2009 11:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Certainly interesting

We are ranked fairly high by a number of high profile names, and not at all by many writers I’ve never heard of. I’d be interested to see the entire ballot of the writers who don’t have us ranked.

Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."

by chirop1 on Jan 27, 2009 11:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Rankings doesn't necessarily begat better recruiting

Kentucky was not ranked in the AP or the ESPN Coaches’ polls for the months of January through March of 2007. Furthermore, the overall media coverage of Kentucky during that time was negative, as reporters routinely wrote about how Kentucky (and Coach Tubby Smith) was not meeting expectations. Tubby had two highly-ranked recruits — Jai Lucas and Patrick Patterson — interested in attending UK.

Once Tubby left, some of the media backlash was very negative towards UK and UK fans for being “against” Tubby. When Billy Gillispie was hired on, some of the media reaction was that Gillsipie would be cooked by the constant unsatisfiable pressure created by the Kentucky adminstration.

Jai Lucas elected to attend school at Florida. Patrick Patterson — despite all the negative attention — chose UK. Obviously Patterson and his family, who loved Tubby, were swayed by the promises of Coach Gillspie, and not by the media attention or the national rankings.

Since that time, Gillispie has scored highly-ranked recruits such as Daniel Orton, DeAndre Liggins, Jon Hood, Alex Legion, etc., while Kentucky was losing to VMI, San Diego, Gardner-Webb, blown out at Vandy, etc.

I believe networking within the AAU clubs, coaches, and how a college basketball coach can manage/relate with parents of recruits/current players are the primary driving forces in recruiting right now. Practice facilities and academic facilities (such as the CATS tutoring service) are more important than what Dick Vitale or Scott Van Pelt says.

And as I’ve said before, we are Kentucky. Basketball will always be a priority for us. Recruits will know that, even if they’re watching us lose badly on ESPN.

by TheFakeGimelMartinez on Jan 27, 2009 1:21 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

What Happened (Then) In 1996 And 1997?

UK was at its peak. And yet, recruiting was a struggle (both years).

I think Pitino-2-The-NBA rumors really hurt UK recruiting then.

by FortyYearCatFan on Jan 27, 2009 1:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I thought it was more that we were stacked

All the top kids didn’t want to sit a year backing up who we had.

Also, I’m not for sure what the AAU circuit was like back then. IIRC, it seemed like relationships with high school coaches were more important than the AAU stuff.

Mind you, my theory about AAU and high school stuff relies on dated information gleamed back in 1998-2000. I will defer to any strong testimony that denounces that.

by TheFakeGimelMartinez on Jan 27, 2009 1:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I Don't See It That Way

UK lost 8 talented players (6 to NBA) in 1996 and 97. Plenty of openings for talented players. Yet few such players were signed in 96 or 97.

AAU circuit has been Hot Stuff since the mid 1990’s.

Tubby (please excuse the reference) has very successfully “connected” with local HS and AAU coaches in his new coaching gig. Also Canadian AAU and HS coaches FWIW.

So I don’t see the AAU/HS Coaches as a major factor in UK recruiting results of the mid 2000’s.

by FortyYearCatFan on Jan 27, 2009 4:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

There were 3 NBA first round draft picks left on the 1997-98 team

However, they were all forwards or centers. I agree that there was really no reason for us to pick up a high-profile guard in 1997’s class.

by TheFakeGimelMartinez on Jan 27, 2009 5:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Hogan Instead OF Kenny Gregory

Pitino took first to commit. Unfortunately the wrong one was first to decide.

by FortyYearCatFan on Jan 27, 2009 5:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Ignoring Two Consequential Factors

Anyone who’s ever parented teenagers should know that traditionally peer pressure is a most influential contribution to decision making. For 21st century adolescents one would have to add communication technology. UK fell behind in both those categories and just at the time they were gaining impact and are just now inching back into the awareness of the recruit-aged cohort. Being unranked (absence from the ESPN bottom-of-the-page crawl being a prime example) was a decisive part of that.

by Wild Weasel on Jan 27, 2009 1:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

David Hobbs was all about the text messaging

Remember? :)

I agree that UK fell behind on recruiting in the later Tubby Years. Take a look at this year’s Senior class, and who was once in it, for proof. But the awareness comes from those within the system, and not necessarily due to the media’s coverage.

In fact, I’d argue that Tubby increased UK’s media shine. I’d also argue that there were times since our Elite 8 loss against MSU where we were probably not really a top-25 team, yet remained in the polls. In theory, that should have helped us land better recruits than we did.

by TheFakeGimelMartinez on Jan 27, 2009 2:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Senior Class In 2009

UK only had 2 scholarships to offer.

Look at UK senior class in 1985 (1 player) or 1989 (0 players) for similar experiences with limited recruiting.

Or 2000 (1 senior) and 2001 (1 senior) for more recent examples. Limited recruiting in 1996 and 97 was a key reason why.

by FortyYearCatFan on Jan 27, 2009 4:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

There were 3 scholarships for Jared's class

Rekalin Sims and Adam Williams took the other two. Sims was a Juco transfer and IIRC he was a sophomore (eligibility-speaking) at UK. Williams was a true freshman who transfered to Marshall and… still plays?

by TheFakeGimelMartinez on Jan 27, 2009 5:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

There Were 2 During Nov 2004 Recruiting Period

Williams committed in 2004 class and UK was bound to honor NLOI since he met his end of the LOI requirements.

An extra extra scholarship opened up in spring 2005 when Azubuike unexpectedly left for pro basketball. Couldn’t predict that until it happened.

by FortyYearCatFan on Jan 27, 2009 5:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The key word here being ...

…“necessarily.” With emphasis on that caveat, your point is well made.

However, it does help for the program to have a high, successful profile. It does not, by any means, guarantee successful recruiting or even decent recruiting. It is like advertising to a business — a successful ad campaign is a benefit, but only if a strong marketing and sales effort, not to mention fulfillment and execution, follow.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Jan 27, 2009 3:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

On an unrelated note

I don’t have an account at KSR, so I just wanted you to know your Stephon Marbury “news report” was one of the funniest things I’ve read in a while. (For those who wonder what this is, go here)

Now, to keep this on topic – I agree that there are more important factors to recruiting than rankings and good media publicity, but it certainly helps to have that number next to the school and it makes it more likely to have highlights on sports shows (not just Sportscenter) which helps keep the team in the minds of many.

...when you let other people tell you what success is, you already have no chance of ever finding it. - Doug Glanville

by JLeverenz on Jan 27, 2009 4:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

UK's Best Recruiting Classes Of The Past 20 Years

1992. 1994. 1995. 1998. 1999. 2004. Those are the 6 best classes.

UK’s top results were in 1993. 1996. 1997. 1998. 2003. Only once (98) do they match the above.

by FortyYearCatFan on Jan 27, 2009 5:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Summer Series

Forty, I think you should do a series this summer where you do a year-by-year retrospective on UK classes. Do one year at a time and 2 or 3 per week where you take a look at who was in the class, how the players were rated individually and collectively, and what they accomplished while at UK. It could include:

Wins, postseason results, individual and team honors (POY, AA, All-SEC, etc) and notable individual placement in UK history (1000 point scorers, top 15 in rebounding/assists/steals, etc).

Do it during the summer when there is nothing else going on (UK-related anyway) so we’ll have something to read and discuss, then at the end of the series we can do a ranking of the classes which might be a fun community exercise.

...when you let other people tell you what success is, you already have no chance of ever finding it. - Doug Glanville

by JLeverenz on Jan 27, 2009 5:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Will Do

That will be fun for me.

Off the top of my head, the best classes are 1974 and 1995 (edging out 1992).

by FortyYearCatFan on Jan 27, 2009 5:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Oops!

1993 = The Final Four; 1996 = The Final Four; 1997 = The Final Four; 1998 = The Final Four; 2003 = Oops!

by Wild Weasel on Jan 27, 2009 6:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Missed The Point

UK’s best recruiting years did not coincide with UK’s best results. Suggest you re-read above.

by FortyYearCatFan on Jan 27, 2009 8:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I was

suprised to find myself lackluster with ranking. I don’t know why but it didn’t. I think maybe if we get ranked in the top ten I will be dancing in my shoes! I know , I know I am ungrateful!

by tenken on Jan 27, 2009 3:16 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Hobbs recruited but he wasn't the primary recruiter, Rigot and Hanson were.

Rigot was brought in specifically for his recruiting “acumen”.

Mike Sutton was a darn fine recruiter, Hanson and Rigot weren’t quite as good.

by Ken Howlett on Jan 27, 2009 3:53 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Rigot Better Than He Gets Credited

He was the “chief” UK recruiter on Jodie Meeks, Ramel Bradley, and Derrick Jasper (to name just 3).

Sutton recruited at UK in 2001 and 2002 classes when Felton and Finney left in 2000.

by FortyYearCatFan on Jan 27, 2009 4:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

He swung and missed on a lot of players -- K. Barber, the kid that went to UNC, Werner.

by Ken Howlett on Jan 27, 2009 5:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Let me add:

Rigot was billed as a recruiter-extraordinaire, who was going to open up foreign markets.

In my opinion, he did not live up to his hype. I don’t feel he was in the same class as Sutton, and as you mention Felton and Finney.

by Ken Howlett on Jan 27, 2009 5:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Actually He Was picked For His All-Around Coaching (Not Just Recruiting) Ability

His only Euro recruit was Darius Salinskis, who signed in April 2003. He was later on star on Lithuanaian national team. He proved ineligible to play at UK because he didn’t pass the NCAA Amateur test.

by FortyYearCatFan on Jan 27, 2009 8:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs