Turnover Improvement: Real or Mirage?
[Promoted from the Diaries. -- Ed.]
I think it's fair to say that turnovers are on the mind of the Big Blue Faithful heading in to the annual tilt with Louisville. We've seen improvement in the number of turnovers committed by the Cats in their last four games, but there is still some question as to how much of that improvement reflects real growth by the team and how much is a result of playing inferior teams.
There is some anecdotal evidence that players, particularly Michael Porter, are becoming more comfortable with their role on the floor and are making fewer mistakes leading to fewer turnovers. Still, there's a nagging doubt (for me anyway) that the gains made over the past two weeks are a mirage of competition, and that on Sunday against a good UL team that plays the kind of pressure defense that has given UK trouble this season the same turnover bugaboos that plagued the squad agianst UNC, VMI, Kansas State, West Virginia, and Indiana will reappear.
With that question in mind, I decided to take a closer look at UK's performance and that of its competition to see if there was something in the numbers to backup what my eyes have told me and what the players and coaches have said.
The Basics
Here are UK's turnovers and possessions for all their games so far this season. Stats come from StatSheet.com.
| Opponent | VMI | UNC | Del St | Longwood | KSU | WVU | Lamar | Miami (FL) | MVSU | Indiana | App St | Tenn St | Florida Atl | Cent Mich |
| Possessions | 92 | 73 | 65 | 82 | 76 | 64 | 77 | 73 | 72 | 74 | 78 | 77 | 64 | 68 |
| UK Turnovers | 25 | 28 | 12 | 19 | 31 | 23 | 16 | 14 | 14 | 23 | 15 | 16 | 7 | 13 |
In their first ten games UK committed 205 turnovers, 20.5 per game.
In their last four games UK committed 51 turnovers, 12.75 per game.
Of course, games are played at different paces and this can affect the number of turnovers committed.
In their first ten games UK had 748 possessions and turned the ball over 27.4% of the time.
In their last four games UK had 287 possessions and turned the ball over 17.8% of the time.
That's pretty good. UK averages about the same number of possessions per game in each group (74.8 vs 71.7) but is committing roughly 35% fewer turnovers in its last four. This tells us that UK's turnover numbers are not being artificially deflated by a slower pace over its last four games. So far so good, the improvement looks real.
The Competition
The real meat and potatoes of this analysis though is to look at the teams UK has played and try to determine the extent to which the quality of the competition affects the number of turnovers UK commits. The way I have chosen to do this is to get an Expected Number of Turnovers in each game based on the number of possessions and each opponents' defensive TO% (supplied by Ken Pomeroy and current as of Jan. 2).
| Opponent | VMI | UNC | Del St | Longwood | KSU | WVU | Lamar | Miami (FL) | MVSU | Indiana | App St | Tenn St | Florida Atl | Cent Mich |
| Possessions | 92 | 73 | 65 | 82 | 76 | 64 | 77 | 73 | 72 | 74 | 78 | 77 | 64 | 68 |
| Opp def T0% | 26.5 | 24.6 | 16.9 | 25.5 | 27.0 | 28.8 | 19.2 | 19.2 | 21.4 | 25.1 | 17.6 | 20.1 | 16.8 | 22.9 |
| Exp. UK TO | 24.4 | 18.0 | 11.0 | 20.9 | 20.5 | 18.4 | 14.8 | 14.0 | 15.4 | 18.6 | 13.7 | 15.5 | 10.8 | 15.6 |
| Actual TO | 25 | 28 | 12 | 19 | 31 | 23 | 16 | 14 | 14 | 23 | 15 | 16 | 7 | 13 |
There's some good news and bad news here. The bad news is that over the last four games the turnovers are about what we would expect them to be given the number of possessions in the game. This suggests that competition was a big factor in the apparent recent improvement. The good news is that aside from the two games against UNC and Kansas St and to a lesser extent the games against West Virginia and Indiana, UK has performed 'as expected' against its competition. This might imply that the team is actually closer to average than we thought when it comes to taking care of the ball.
On the downside, I don't think the results against UNC and Kansas St. can simply be dismissed as outliers. Both of those teams play pressure defense and in each case UK turned the ball over far more than expected and more than any other team has that has faced UNC and KSU. It could very well be the case that given its lack of a true or experienced PG UK is more susceptible to this kind of pressure defense than other teams are. That certainly does not bode well for Sunday's game.
The Competition, Part II
There's another way to break down these numbers. Turnovers aren't all the same. Generally they can be divided into two categories: Dead ball Turnovers and Live ball Turnovers (aka Steals). As the names imply, Dead ball TOs are turnovers that result in a stoppage in play (walks, five second calls, stepping out of bounds, etc). Live ball TOs (henceforth referred to as Steals) do not involve a stoppage in play.
There are other differences. Steals often lead to fast break opportunities whereas Dead ball TOs require the receiving team to inbound the ball and allow the defense to get set. More importantly (for the purposes of this post), steals are usually caused by direct physical action by the defense whereas dead ball turnovers are usually caused by mental mistakes by the offense. This is not to say the defense has nothing to do with forcing dead ball turnovers or that mental mistakes don't lead to steals, but speaking generally the defense has more control over forcing steals and the offense has more control over committing dead ball turnovers.
We can account for this in breaking down the game results for UK. Instead of using the Opponents defensive TO% (as I did above) to get an expected TO count for each game, we can divide turnovers into the two groups and get an expected value for each. This should allow us to more accurately assess the affects of competition.
Opponents Steal% is easy to get as it is supplied by Ken Pomeroy. Kentucky's Dead ball TO% can be found by taking the Offensive TO% (how often the offense turns the ball over) and subtracting the Offensive Steal% (how often the offense gets the ball stolen from it). These numbers are, again, supplied by Pomeroy. As a quick aside, both percentages have a common denominator (possessions) so we are mathematically justified in subtracting one fraction from the other.
| Opponent | VMI | UNC | Del St | Longwood | KSU | WVU | Lamar | Miami (FL) | MVSU | Indiana | App St | Tenn St | Florida Atl | Cent Mich |
| Possessions | 92 | 73 | 65 | 82 | 76 | 64 | 77 | 73 | 72 | 74 | 78 | 77 | 64 | 68 |
| Opp Steal% | 15.8 | 13.7 | 7.8 | 10.9 | 10.3 | 12.9 | 9.5 | 9.3 | 10.3 | 11.7 | 8.1 | 10.3 | 6.4 | 11.7 |
| Ex Opp. Steals | 14.5 | 10.0 | 5.1 | 8.9 | 7.8 | 8.3 | 7.3 | 6.8 | 7.4 | 8.7 | 6.3 | 7.9 | 4.1 | 8.0 |
| Actual Steals | 13 | 16 | 5 | 5 | 10 | 6 | 9 | 6 | 7 | 9 | 8 | 8 | 2 | 7 |
| UK dbTO% | 13.6 | 13.6 | 13.6 | 13.6 | 13.6 | 13.6 | 13.6 | 13.6 | 13.6 | 13.6 | 13.6 | 13.6 | 13.6 | 13.6 |
| Ex db TOs | 12.5 | 9.9 | 8.8 | 11.2 | 10.3 | 8.7 | 10.5 | 9.9 | 9.8 | 10.1 | 10.6 | 10.5 | 8.7 | 9.2 |
| Actual db TOs | 12 | 12 | 7 | 14 | 21 | 17 | 7 | 8 | 7 | 14 | 7 | 8 | 5 | 6 |
There's a lot of numbers up there so here's the summary:
| Exp. Opp. Steals | Actual Steals | Exp. UK db TOs | Actual UK db TOs | |
| First 10 Games | 84.8 | 86 | 101.7 | 119 |
| Last 4 Games | 26.3 | 25 | 39 | 26 |
Looked at this way, there are some reasons for major optimism. Throughout all 14 games UK has had the ball stolen pretty much exactly the number of times we would expect with practically no difference between the first ten games and the last four. Contrary to what the previous results showed, this suggests that UK might not have any weakness to a particular type of defense after all.
Where the team has made great strides is in cutting down on the number of dead ball turnovers. That makes a lot of sense if you think about it. As I mentioned earlier, deadball turnovers are mostly due to mental mistakes. As players become more comfortable with their roles and with each other on the court, those kinds of mistakes should decrease. The improvement probably isn't quite as good as what is shown because the defense will have some indirect affect on those turnovers, but I feel comfortable in saying that improvement is real and not due to competition.
So You're Saying There's A Chance?
What does all this say about the team heading into Sunday's game against Louisville? The Cards steal the ball 12.4% of the time, good for 39th in the nation. I think we should expect that to continue on Sunday and maybe go a bit higher since they are at home. UL plays at the same tempo as UK (71.4 adj pos/40 min versus 71.3). I would put the over/under on total turnovers at 18. If UK commits fewer than that they will be in the game with a good chance to win. If UK commits more than 18 turnovers, it will be a long afternoon.
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13 comments
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Comments
Interesting analysis
of something I have definitely (amazingly) overlooked.
Also, I hope you consciously made the “Dumb and Dumber” reference with the last heading. Hahahaha.
by mrmondaynite on Jan 2, 2009 4:21 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Oh Yes
Although I think UK has a better chance than Jim Carrey did (or was it Jeff Daniels? It’s been too long since I’ve seen that movie).
"That's not a Sherman tank, it's Frank Thomas!" - Monkeyball
by JLeverenz on Jan 2, 2009 4:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
For you fans of the crude movie genre,
… I noticed that the black Death Car entered in the parade in “Animal House” is presently for sale. Maybe only the Batmobile and the BTTF DeLorean would be more famous.
by Ken Pomeroy on Jan 2, 2009 9:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
BCG is big on the difference between DB TO's and Non-DB To's/Steals, but he tends to speak about WHERE the TO occurs as the major factor in how bad it is.
He claims he is not too troubled by the DB TO’s, or those that happen deep on the line (at our goal) as they leave the team in a position to defend the loss of the ball. He is very troubled by the live turnovers that occur in the back court, as they almost inevitably lead to scores the other way.
JL, I think these exercises have real value and provide valuable insight for real students of the game. Fascinating stuff.
by Ken Pomeroy on Jan 2, 2009 9:36 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I seem to recall hearing BCG say something similar also
Though for the life of me I can’t seem to remember where or when. I’m a bit surprised that the difference in types of turnovers isn’t talked about more in general conversations about the game. I think it would help educate those who are new to watching as well as provide fertile ground for discussions that would be of interest to those more experienced. For example, I’m curious to know whether teams practice or talk about what to do defensively after an opponent steals the ball. Are scenarios discussed concerning when to foul or mitigate the damage after a steal, or is it just left up to the individual experience and judgment of the player?
I’m glad you enjoy the write ups. I almost always learn something interesting when putting them together. I was astonished at how closely the game results in steals matched up with what was expected – I thought opponents would have stolen the ball far more times than they did.
Another interesting tidbit I noticed while pulling together the numbers, 5 of UK’s first 6 opponents currently rank in the top 37 in forcing turnovers (in terms of TO%): VMI (15), UNC (37), Longwood (25), Kansas St (9) and West Virginia (4). Anyone who wants to point at the competition in the last four games needs to acknowledge the competition in the first six as well.
"That's not a Sherman tank, it's Frank Thomas!" - Monkeyball
by JLeverenz on Jan 2, 2009 10:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not just in the back court ...
… but near the back court.
Live ball turnovers that happen below the top of the key are generally less harmful than those that happen at or above the top of the key. Turnovers that result in a dead ball are the least harmful, i.e. traveling, palming, etc. Live turnovers at or above the top of the key usually result in a fast break opportunity, and a high percentage shot.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on Jan 3, 2009 12:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Nice work.
You have been promoted. :-)
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on Jan 3, 2009 12:11 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Great job, JLeverenz
One of my basketball related pet peeves is the “steal.”
In my view, there are very few actual steals. More often than not a steal is credited when a player simply makes a bone-headed pass, and the opposing player (the one credited with the steal) happens to be standing in the vicinity of where the errant pass was misguided.
There are ball-hawks out there, ala Rondo and Hawkins, but those types of players are few in number.
Perhaps the steal should be re-credited to the team, because pressure defense does cause errant or hurried passes that are often intercepted. But instead of the lucky fella who happens to be standing in the right place at the right time getting credit for simply breathing, the team defense should rightfully be credited.
Once again, tremendous job JLeverenz!
by Ken Howlett on Jan 3, 2009 12:57 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Good point about team defense being credited with steals
From games I’ve watched, it seems like most steals come from a combination of one player knocking the ball away and another coming up with possession. Knocking the ball away can come on a dribble or a pass, but it seems like both players should get credit for the play even if one of them was only in the right place at the right time. Most guards are good enough to protect the dribble against a single defender and it seems like many times when a player single handily comes up with a steal it’s because there was another defender putting pressure on the ball handler – yet the second guy doesn’t get credited.
"That's not a Sherman tank, it's Frank Thomas!" - Monkeyball
by JLeverenz on Jan 3, 2009 11:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
8 Of The Top 10 UK Career Steals Leaders Were Recruited From 1992 On
It’s a fairly “recent” stat. And most of the leaders are PG.
by FortyYearCatFan on Jan 3, 2009 11:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No beef with these stats!
Thank you for taking note of pace. Your articles are excellent.
by #3 on Jan 3, 2009 1:44 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

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