Morning Newspaper for January 19th
by Glenn Logan on Jan 19, 2009 9:13 AM EST
in Kentucky Wildcats News
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After validating the win over Tennessee with a road win over Georgia, Kentucky is preparing for an improved Auburn team on Wednesday in Rupp Arena.
The big question of the day -- will the big road win over Tennessee combined with the road win over Georgia be enough to propel the 'Cats into the top 25 for the first time since the pre-season of last year? We'll know soon enough.
Now, for news.
Kentucky Basketball News
- [New] Jerry Tipton submits his AP Ballot. Will UK be on it? Read his blog and see.
- Don't count out the SEC:
"There's some envy out there because they can point to a lot more years where we've had the best league in the country," Vanderbilt coach Kevin Stallings said. "They probably want to take their shots while they can get them in, and they need to because it's not going to last for long."
Word. Trent Johnson also has some nice words for Jodie Meeks. - I knew this was bothering Patrick. His shooting motion is off, and his touch is not what it normally is. It has been obvious for the last two games.
- Nice Larry Vaught article underlining what a good teammate Patrick Patterson is.
- When your coach says this ...
"I saw a million things I liked today," UK Coach Billy Gillispie said.
... you know you are doing something right. UK may not have been awesome on offense, but their defense was terrific. - UK's cheerleading squad win their 17th national championship. That and more from Matt Jones this morning.
- I love this lede from the Memphis Commercial-Appeal:
Meeks 'held' to 22 as Kentucky romps past Georgia - Blair Kerkhoff of the Kansas City Star says to keep an eye on Kentucky.
- The Wildcat Whisperer has thoughts about the game Sunday.
- UK Wildcat Country thinks UK belongs in the top 25. It could happen, but I'm not betting on it.
- Chris Diggs thinks that teamwork is responsible for Kentucky's rise. I think he has a point.
Kentucky Football News/Other UK Sports News
- UK Hoops falls to Mississippi State, 52-45.
NCAA Basketball News
- Uh-oh. One of Pelphrey's players was caught behaving badly.
- CHN wonders if anyone other than a Big East or ACC team can win the tournament. I say sure -- Oklahoma for one.
- Dick "Hoops" Weiss takes the NCAA to task for their decision to prevent college coaches from attending April weekend tournaments. I think Hoops has this exactly right. Rather than reducing the seediness of the recruiting game, it will enhance it by making middlemen, often with an agenda, more valuable.
- Minnesota falls to Northwestern. I had a feeling the Gophers, who have been getting into deep, early holes lately, were due for a letdown. This is not a bad loss, however, as Northwestern is better than usual and is still a top 100 team, and it was a road game for the Gophers.
- Mark Bradley at the AJC says Felton should be replaced. I suspect this is highly likely. More here.
- Alex Legion is getting more comfortable with the Illini. I watched the MSU/Illiniois game, and legion had a hot streak there for a few minutes. He still plays lousy defense, if you ask me. But he can shoot the ball. You can tell by his comments that all he thinks about is shooting.
- Katz has Jodie Meeks as his Player of the Week. Well, duh. Who ya gonna put in there after he breaks a 39-year old scoring record at the most storied basketball program in America? Calathes, Teague, Terrence Williams and Blake Griffin get honorable mentions.
NCAA Football News
- Gregg Doyel takes Pete Caroll's side after Caroll blasted USC quarterback Mark Sanchez for entering the NFL draft.
- Still lots of noise being made about an early signing period. I think it's a good idea if it's properly implemented.
Other News of Interest
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Comments
Felton
Many around here were saying that Felton “needed time to clean up after Herrick” or “He needs his own players.” I didn’t realize it until the game on Sunday, but he’s been there for six years!!!! Can you imagine the attitude from around here if it took Gillispie that long to get Kentucky back into national contender status?
Georgia is no Kentucky certainly, but they also deserve better than to be languishing at the bottom of the entire SEC. Its time for Felton to go. (Did he get a nice big extension last year after the tourney run?) If Ken McDonald keeps racking up signature wins at WKU, it won’t be long before a Big XII job comes a’callin for him. Maybe Felton can get his old job back in Bowling Green.
Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."
Georgia
They have often been an underachieving basketball program. Hugh Durham (now and then, not every year) and Tubby Smith (both 1996 and 97) are the only exceptions in my lifetime.
by FortyYearCatFan on Jan 19, 2009 10:21 AM EST up reply actions
UK theme for Firefox
Yesterday I went looking for a UK theme for Firefox and had no success. Does anyone know if such a theme exists?
Favorite quote
Perry Stevenson, from the article about Pat’s hand: “Those guys are huge,” Stevenson said. “They’re like buildings with feet.”
Is this a regionalism I’m not aware of, or was this a witty comment off the top of Perry’s head? It made me giggle.
Turgeon: A Personal Note
In the KC Star article mentioning UK as a team to watch there was a photo of Mark Turgeon who replaced Billy Gillispie in College Station, and who returns to Lawrence tonight on ESPN, and I was stunned at how old he appeared. Then I calculated that he is in his mid-40’s yet it still appears he’s prematurely aged. Adding to my consternation was the fact that I did play-by-play radio of Turgeon during his days at Topeka Hayden High School — further confirmation that I’m an old Cat.
I Remember Turgeon As Jayhawk In Mid 1980's
He’s somewhere in mid 40’s by now.
by FortyYearCatFan on Jan 19, 2009 1:28 PM EST up reply actions
Ranking
No ranked in the Coaches Poll. Actually only got 12 votes.
Wildcat Whisperer
This is the first time I had seen this blog and I must say this guy is really good and entertaining. I love his writing style.
I looked around the blog a bit and found a recent interview with “Sam Bowie’s Old Uniform Shorts”. I know many of us can remember those short bottoms of years ago and Sam’s shorts has some really funny comments. Take a look!
Bracketology...
This week UK took a big leap forward in Lunardi’s Bracketology. He has UK as a 6 seed against a familiar foe Utah. Poor Utah they never get a break.
Slower Traffic Keep Right!
11 Seed
And one of the “Last four in.”
Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."
bologna
We got 12 votes in the ESPN poll. WTF! Dayton got more than us. I guess it’s just no respect for the SEC, but I honestly don’t believe there are 33 teams better than us right now. Effin 12 votes…
The polls...
USA Today—NR 12 votes
AP—NR 105 votes
Not that UK should be ranked, but I have noticed a trend in the polls from one week to the next…
If you are in the Big East, a loss means very little…
Keep on rolling CATS…!
Steelers fan 1st! UK is my 2nd love.
I do believe ...
… I said this would happen. :-)
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
This is about what I would expect
We will gradually pick up votes as we continue to win through the SEC schedule and get ranked sometime towards the early/mid part of February.
I would assume UT is now out of both polls and the SEC officially has no one ranked?
Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."
Holy #%$&!!! Not quite on the zero SEC teams being ranked, huh?
Florida has managed to connive their way into the f’ing AP poll.
Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."
I really have no problem with UFA being ranked. They've won like 10 in a row. I think they deserve it.
I don’t necessarily like it (them being ranked and UK not), but a “correction” should be coming soon :)
UK 28th in the AP, 34th in the Coaches
I pay no mind to the Coaches — They don’t see many games, unless their team is playing, or if they’re preparing for an opponent.
Considering two weeks ago UK received zero votes, I’m happy with where they stand in the AP poll. Beat Auburn and ‘Bama, and they’ll be in.
I agree that UK is probably about where they belong considering their resume...
The real key is that UK is greatly improved over the beginning of the season. You want your team to continue to build and get better as the season goes along so that you are playing your best basketball at the end of the season and that seems to be what this UK team is doing. Provided they take care of business and win the games they are supposed to win, they will be in a good position entering postseason. I do believe that UK will be a team that few teams will happy to draw in the tournament which is something I never would have said 3 weeks ago.
Slower Traffic Keep Right!
my stomach is in knots
about the disrespect we are getting. The coaches keep Minn in but give us no love but twelve votes? Something backlash going on there. I like Tru didn’t see us making the top twenty five but I thought we would be closer then that. We are on AP. I think we are in if we take care of business next week. Of course like daddy always taught me it doesn’t really matter. It matters in April where we finish. He would always say that if we were number 1 or 25.
Don't let it bother you.
It isn’t really disrespect. Kentucky has made a case for inclusion, but it is by no means an open-and-shut case. There exists plenty of arguments to include others. Florida, for example, has two fewer losses, even though their schedule is arguably weaker and they lost to a team they should have beaten. We have only one win against a formerly top-flight team, and two other good but hardly great wins. Almost everything else is status quo.
I will tell you further that there is a fair chance we won’t make it in both polls next week if we win both at home and in Tuscaloosa. If that happens, I think we may sneak in to the media poll, but I don’t think we will get there in the coach’s poll.
But don’t sweat it. The best way for UK to wind up ranked is to win. If they do that, they will get there.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
Minnesota Deserves To Stay In
They beat Wisconsin in Madison, very tough W for anyone. Only 8th home L for Badgers in Bo Ryan’s 9 years there.
by FortyYearCatFan on Jan 19, 2009 2:33 PM EST up reply actions
I think they probably do ...
… but not at 21. I would have knocked them down to at least 23 or even 24. But not out.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
They Looked Pretty Bad In 2nd Half Yesterday
I saw Tubby’s eyes bursting from their sockets a couple of times!
by FortyYearCatFan on Jan 19, 2009 2:38 PM EST up reply actions
My Favorite
Damian Johnson through a cross court pass 10 feet over the guard’s head and straight at Tubby. He (OTS) jumped up and caught it before it went into the stands.
His eyes showed up then. And Damian Johnson sat down for a while.
by FortyYearCatFan on Jan 19, 2009 4:03 PM EST up reply actions
Not impressed
Losing to an 0-4 Northwestern team, I think we will see a repeat of last year’s Minnesota team. Wisconsin is still good, but not that good.
Northwestern is better than what their record shows.
They weren’t able to finish some games where they had big leads in the second half.
by BBallSophist on Jan 19, 2009 3:59 PM EST up reply actions
Oh, Yes It Is
Big 10 teams will beat each other up.
by FortyYearCatFan on Jan 19, 2009 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
The Big 10/11 is one of the deepest conferences this year
I think they’ll get 7 teams into the Big Dance.
GBB!!!
Definitely
Big 10 has been down lately.
Several new coaches were added in 2007. The 2008 results were better. And 2009 even better (so far).
by FortyYearCatFan on Jan 19, 2009 7:20 PM EST up reply actions
Northwestern Is A Good Team
They beat Fla St and took Purdue down to the wire.
Look for Gophers to get 25 W by end of postseason.
Wisconsin is good and VERY good at HOME.
by FortyYearCatFan on Jan 19, 2009 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
Big 10 teams
Look good against each other. Mich. State and Purdue both got trounced in out of conference games this year.
This is starting...
to sound like a BCS argument. I just don’t consider 52-48 games good basketball.
How would you classify UCLA's recent success?
Ben Howland’s brand of basketball isn’t pretty… but he’d be an immortalized coach here if we rode that to three straight Final Fours.
“Good Basketball” is winning basketball IMO.
Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."
Winning basketball...
Is championships. UCLA and big ten teams end up getting beat by teams that can score. Same as our ugly teams of the past.
Big 10 Rated 2nd Only To Big East Among All Conferences, Top-2-Bottom
ACC is 3rd.
SEC is not close.
by FortyYearCatFan on Jan 19, 2009 5:04 PM EST up reply actions
Minnesota Beat Louisville
To name just 1 OOC success by Big 10 team.
by FortyYearCatFan on Jan 19, 2009 5:06 PM EST up reply actions
If you call that a success
Western beat them too, are we going to rate them as better than the SEC now? You can bend stats for a story any way you want. Big Ten is always ranked high in football too but they don’t win much when it comes to the BCS. The Big East, ACC and Big ten were all hyped last year too and neither had a team in the championship game. We’ll see when March arrives.
This ...
… makes no sense.
Winning in basketball is not how many total points are scored. It is who scores the most. Or put another way, who prevents their opponent from scoring more.
I don’t get this argument at all.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
I have steadfastly said since I was old enough to know what a BB was that I don't care ...
… if UK averages 50 ppg as long as they win.
This is not the prevailing view among UK fans (or so it seems).
My argument
Is who you play has to be taken into account. And I’ll admit it, I’d rather lose 90-89 than win 50-48 every time out. I know that sounds stupid, but recruits don’t want to play in a program that could get outscored by Texas Tech’s football offense.
Heh ...
… well, that’s another argument. We see recruits playing right now for teams that win those kinds of games, and getting to the final four.
Style of play is a factor in recruiting, but it isn’t the main one by any means. Given a choice, I prefer teams that score in the mid to high 70’s and low 80’s, because teams that score in the 90’s and higher usually (not always, but usually) are not playing good half-court defense.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
Recruits
It sounds logical and is certainly the excuse we have used in the past… but UCLA had the number one recruiting class in the nation this year and has been in the top ten the last several years. No one would argue that Howland plays an up and down style of ball.
I think recruits want to win, go pro, and be on TV. (In not necessarily that order.) If you can do that for them, they’ll come.
Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."
Population Numbers
Ben Howland could play without a shot clock — providing it was allowed — and still be able to recruit. The reasons: one, the 20 million people who live in southern California — with those demographics odds are there are a dozen or so highly talented players every year; two, the mystique and tradition of UCLA — yes, Wizard of Westwood is alive and well. Ergo, UCLA is not a good counter to style of play argument.
by Wild Weasel on Jan 19, 2009 10:04 PM EST up reply actions
UCLA Had Lots Of Coaches Between Wooden And Howland
Most didn’t recruit nearly as well as either of them.
Howland plays a slow, deliberate style and W with it.
by FortyYearCatFan on Jan 19, 2009 10:42 PM EST up reply actions
Sure it is.
The same could theoretically be said of teams in New York, but St. Johns has not had similar success.
It is a perfect example.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Glenn Logan on Jan 20, 2009 12:09 AM EST up reply actions
I agree with that
And I think Steve Lavin would agree with 40 that location isn’t the only factor producing recruits for UCLA.
Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."
I Didn't Rate Anyone
I listed that W over Louisville as an example of nice W in OOC play by Big 10 team.
Yes, the Big 10 overall is better than SEC overall.
by FortyYearCatFan on Jan 19, 2009 5:28 PM EST up reply actions
Coaching Tool
Surprised! Disappointed! Truth be known Coach is probably pleased, players ambivalent. Great motivational tool. Bring on the state of Alabama.
Nor am I.
Didn’t expect to be ranked. Our play warrants it, our resume’ does not.
by BBallSophist on Jan 19, 2009 4:50 PM EST up reply actions
RPI and KenPom
I checked both this morning. We’ve moved up to 19 in the KenPom rankings, but are at 56?!?!? in the RPI. Unless I’m mistaken, I think the win at Georgia actually dropped us in the RPI.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
--O.W.
FL is ranked in the AP Poll
They are the only ranked SEC team in both polls.
UK moved up a lot, but we’re still not quiet there yet. We need some more teams ahead of us to lose this week.
GBB!!!
Dick Weiss article
Does this mean that college coaches and assistants cannot attend the high school basketball tournaments? If so, that is a terrible shame.
No, just during the period he talked about. At least, that's how I read it.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
tiny little snub?
UF in with some uninspired “not losses” some others still in? Can rationalize it, but I would rather spend these few seconds in a crazy day to embrace the hate. Real or otherwise.
So a Big East loss is > / = to an SEC win?
Oh well. Draw us in March and take a spankin’
Changing how you think will change what you think.
The UK cheerleaders are feakishly good. It's not only their 17th Championship ...
… but they’ve won like 10 years in a row now.
Congratulations!!
Just
heard the bracketology guy say he expects Kentucky to get a top four seed. Now that just makes me smile!!!
I think that can definitely happen.
And that would make me smile, also.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
To become a top 25 team...
…we must beat a top 25 team, which we have not done in a long time. Therefore, we should all be happy that Florida is ranked in the top 25 because Florida might represent our only remaining chance to beat a ranked team (until tournament time, that is.)
That said, I really like the way this team is coming together.
We Beat 3 Of Them In 2007 (Louisville, Tennessee, Indiana)
And we beat a couple of them in 2008 also.
by FortyYearCatFan on Jan 19, 2009 5:05 PM EST up reply actions
Not necessarily.
We just need to keep winning. Others will make room for us. A bunch of victories over mediocre opponents will get us in just as surely.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
It Worked Last Year
UK beat 12 SEC teams but most were subpar. 25 W will get UK (or most anyone) into the NCAA.
by FortyYearCatFan on Jan 19, 2009 7:33 PM EST up reply actions
And... Here... We... Go...
Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."
NO!
I am done with Tubby Eruptions.
*Warning to everyone*
Tubby debates in this thread will be deleted. I am done.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
So warned!!!
Does your warning in any way affect Forty’s unending (and unrestrained) proclamations of love for everything Tubby has done, or will do, for the rest of his life?
I’m just trying to get the rules straight.
Damn skippy.
I already deleted one of his posts.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
I try to be ...
… an equal-opportunity deleter. :-)
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
Sorry But I State Facts About Any And All UK Coaches, Past Or Present
The #1 shortcoming of the current UK coach is postseason performance. He needs to improve that.
His W-L record in Below .500 in postseason. He has won 0 conference tourneys, NIT or NCAA titles. None of the prior 5 UK coaches was 0-for-3 in that regard.
by FortyYearCatFan on Jan 19, 2009 7:32 PM EST up reply actions
Very true. But largely irrelevant to this thread. I can't recall a single article ...
… that deals with Gillispie or his place in the UK coaching pantheon.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
I have no problem
With going the rest of my life and never hearing the name Tubby again. I wish him the best. I just get tired of every time we do anything it’s always “Well this is what we did when Tubby was here” or “Tubby is doing this now”. That’s what I’m done with. It’s not a direct Tubby quote usually, but we all get the drift. The team is playing great, but it always comes back to Tubby this or Tubby that. It’s not enough that I have to hear it every time Dicky idiot calls a game on ESPN, now I have to hear it from UK fans too. Now I’m done with it too. Sorry.
I Compare UK Currently 2 Ways
- the post Rupp era from 1973 to 2008.
75.6% (887 W, 286 L), 72.2% in NCAA games.
3 NCAA titles in 36 seasons. 16 SEC titles in 36 years.
And #2 UK all-time (including Rupp).
76% W-L record, 69% in NCAA games.
7 NCAA titles in 70 years (NCAA began in 1939). 43 SEC titles in 76 years (SEC began in 1933).
That’s surely fair. Those are the standards (W-L record, NCAA and SEC titles) by which current performance should be judged.
by FortyYearCatFan on Jan 19, 2009 7:29 PM EST up reply actions
UK Won Titles And/Or Made FF Under Each Of The Past 5 Coaches
Not (yet) under the current coach.
The SEC title should be forthcoming soon. FF and/or other titles are probably down the road, not 2009.
by FortyYearCatFan on Jan 19, 2009 7:38 PM EST up reply actions
At some point common sense has to take over.
Sure UK has 4 losses. Sure they’ve beaten only one ranked team.
But anybody who has watched them play knows they are a Top 25 team. Folks are too concerned with bogus RPI and Pomeroy numbers, when the eyeball test is the true measure of a good/great team.
If Pom, RPI, and Sagarin had magical formulas which were accurate in deciding which team would win a given game, then Vegas would have to stop accepting wagers on sporting events.
I don't disagree.
I think UK is definitely playing like a top 25 team. I also think, however, that we still need to beat another ranked team, like Florida, to crack the top 25, which is why I am glad that Florida has entered the rankings (deserving or not).
You may be right, but I think that if UK wins their next two then they'll get in.
Surely there will be movement (losses) among the bottom half of the Top 25.
Top 25
People love to hate on Kentucky and that has something to do with why we are not ranked… If we continue at this pace and win the SEC and SEC tourney we could work are way up to a 2 to 4 seed I think… We took the number 9 team to the brink, Beat UT who was top 25, WVA who has been in the top 25 but we will need to win two more straight games to crack the field… This team is playing well on defense and remember how good the Cats got last year in conference play… I am once again EXCITED!!!
ShagOnSports - "people should know when they are conquered"
People love to hate Kentucky???
I see this argument all the time from UK fans….it’s silly..and according to Tru, I have to back up my statements so here it goes:
1. The ESPN poll is a coaches poll…there is no way that ‘hatred’ for UK can sway this poll.
2. Last year as everyone knows, UK made the tournament. I maintain that any other program with the record that UK had would not have made the tournament. It was only UK love that got them in…..and sorry Tru, I can’t bring up the OOC record nor the RPI, but it wasn’t pretty. Granted they had a good SEC record, but the conference wasn’t strong last year either.
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
Kind of like
Any other venue would have seen Pitt beat Louisville because they wouldn’t have been hosed on so many calls at the end of the game…
Wow...I am left speechless. Congratulations.
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
Whenever you read that UK fans say that people "hate" UK, they're referring to the media, not necessarily ...
… athletic department employees, who make up the coaches poll (who half the time don’t even vote), and the Selection Committee.
Yes, I think that many media members don’t care for UK. It’s actually pretty easy to make a strong case for that opinion.
I am sorry I really don't see it...I really don't.
Dickie V. absolutely loves UK…to name one. Who are these people? I think Jay Bilas has said some really complimentary things about UK’s play recently and Billy Gillespie. I thought ESPN absolutely threw opened there doors a couple of weeks ago to Billie…who did a great job on the interviews by the way.
Again, give me some names and I’ll try to listen a little more closely.
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
The entire ESPN crew, especially since OTS left. Seth Davis, Goodman ...
… they all have been extremely hard on UK and UK fans over the last year-and-a-half.
Ignorance (not you, them) on full display. They speak of which they have no knowledge, or they allow their bias to color their commentary. A lot of it comes from UK’s history of NCAA infraction, then with the alleged dissing of OTS, the unjust criticism was ramped up considerably.
Certainly there is a...
…community that believes UK ran Tubby out. I just don’t think they or that mindset comes into play when ranking teams. If that is the case, does the same hold true in college football with Notre Dame and Ty Willingham?? Again, I think ND is given the benefit of the doubt in rankings…much like UK would in basketball. I know this comment will get me in trouble, but with all the top college programs out there (UNC, KY, Kansas, UCLA), Kentucky seems to be the only fan base that is hit by the case of paranoia. I just don’t get it.
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
I would actually agree with that.
I don’t think the “we won’t vote for them because they ran Tubby out” is even close to true. I fact, both Seth Davis and Dick Vitale ranked UK in the latest media poll, so I would say that is convincing evidence against that perception.
If you think UK is the only paranoid fan base, all I can say is that you must not get out much. :-) Working you to hard, I imagine. :-)
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
Well, I have to admit...
…I feel a little paranoid right now….but just a little.
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
No One Thinks That Any More
The talking heads have all talked to the parties involved and know that’s not true.
Maybe they weren’t sure in March 2007 but they are now.
UK hasn’t gotten many votes in 2008 season or 2009 (until now) because they haven’t EARNED many votes with 32-17 record (so far).
by FortyYearCatFan on Jan 19, 2009 8:11 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think Vitale hates UK.
Vitale is just a goofy guy who talks really loud for money. But he doesn’t hate UK and never has. He dwells too much on things he knows nothing about, but he’s entitled to do that. This is America.
He loves Duke too much for his own good, though. Even the Dookies have lamented that perception is one of the reasons they are so universally loathed.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
love this:
Vitale is just a goofy guy who talks really loud for money
A more succinct and accurate appraisal of Dick Vitale, I have never seen : ) Anyone ever heard of 6-word memoirs? You couldn’t beat “Goofy guy talks loud for money” with a stick.
by blue kentucky girl on Jan 20, 2009 3:28 PM EST up reply actions
Heh.
That’s just how I see him. He’s probably a real nice, generous man as well, but the TV persona is all I have to judge on.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
Well ...
… a conspiracy theorist (not me, mind you) might posit that all the things that got Gillispie such bad press earlier this year, particularly the moving of midnight madness, might have prompted many of the coaches to think less of the Wildcats. A conspiracy theorist might even postulate that was driven from the NABC. An argument could be made that the wide disparity between the coach’s vote and the AP might be due to a bit more than just coaches not having time to read the news.
Me, I think that won’t fly. But it isn’t inherently preposterous.
Your argument that UK shouldn’t have made the tournament last year is specious. I don’t mean to be rude, but it just doesn’t deserve a rebuttal. If you wish to pursue it, you can look up my commentary last year dismissing it, there must be three or four posts and dozens of comments dedicated to that issue.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
Well I am relatively new...
…so I didn’t read your argument. All I am saying is that in my humble opinion, one of the reasons UK got into the tournament last year was due to their hard earned reputation as a basketball icon. Other teams….many teams…most teams…don’t have that going for them. What’s so bad about that?
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
They got in because they deserved to get in.
But there is no way to prove our differing points, unless we were in the room when the selections were made.
12-4 in the SEC should get any team in, regardless of how strong or weak the conference was.
I disagree
Kentucky earned the bid last year with a very good 12-4 SEC record… Winning 11 of thier last 13 reg. season games.. come on HK…
Steelers fan 1st! UK is my 2nd love.
I must not be making my point clearly...
…I am not aguing that UK shouldn’t have made the tournament. I am just saying that one of the reasons that UK made it…again, one of the reasons…is the historical pedigree. Heck, embrace your history….I think it works for you, not against you.
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
That's just not true...
If USC would have gone 12-4 in the SEC, 2nd in the east, they would have been in…
Has nothing to do with WHO we are…
Steelers fan 1st! UK is my 2nd love.
Sure It Does
UK was 16-12 but got in back in 1985. 18-10 but got NCAA bid in 1987. 21-11 in 2007 or 21-12 in 2006, both got into NCAA.
And 18-12 in 2008 but NCAA bid received.
by FortyYearCatFan on Jan 19, 2009 8:08 PM EST up reply actions
OK THEN...
…What where UK’s RPI ranking in those years…?
We used to play VERY tough schedules and that would hold alot of water in the selection room…
Steelers fan 1st! UK is my 2nd love.
RPI???
Meant nothing.
UK has gotten 17 straight NCAA bids. And (throwing out 1989-90-91 for obvious reasons) 9 straight before that.
by FortyYearCatFan on Jan 19, 2009 8:14 PM EST up reply actions
crap, hit my post too fast...
…I was going to add, the RPI “does” mean something… Why else would Alabama make the tourney at 16-13…?
Because in that year, "bama had the #1 SOS…
Alabama will never be mistaken for a “power basketball college”
Steelers fan 1st! UK is my 2nd love.
I Remember 1985 More Clearly Than Others
Several SEC teams had better resumes than UK. The Cats lost 1st round SECT game. And yet, UK got in and the others were left out.
UK sometimes gets in because of the name, not the numbers.
by FortyYearCatFan on Jan 19, 2009 8:27 PM EST up reply actions
A lot of weight is put on the final 10 games...
…In 1985, Kentucky was 7-3 in there last 10, so that may have helped their cause…
Steelers fan 1st! UK is my 2nd love.
That's A Factor
Not THE factor. NCAA says, time and again, it’s the Whole Body Of Work over the season.
UK is not the only one who gets in for its name. Cincinnati got 2002 bid at 17-11. They gave Gonzaga a decent game but L.
by FortyYearCatFan on Jan 19, 2009 8:41 PM EST up reply actions
NCAA Tourney
Im ok with making the tourney just becuase we are UK. I’ll take any shot at a national championship I can get.
DEEETROIT BASKETBALLL!!!
The 85 Cats Really Didn't Belong In NCAA
But they got a bid. Cincy in 2002 is another example.
by FortyYearCatFan on Jan 19, 2009 9:56 PM EST up reply actions
Well ...
… I would, I just don’t think it was much of a factor. Who knows, perhaps you’re right about that. But as I say, others have made it in on less, which makes it kind of irrelevant.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
You don't think 12-4 with quality wins against several ranked SEC teams ...
… overcame their slow start? I’m not viewing it through the eye of a partisan. Georgia and others made it into the tournament in previous years having substantially the same set of circumstances, so as I say, this may be your opinion, but it is demonstrably inconsistent with reality.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
Okay...I promise you that this will be my last post on the subject...
…and thanks for hearing me out in a mature and even manner.
[side comment: usually I post on memory, and then I realize I should go back and double-check my memory on facts]
I looked up UK’s RPI last year and it was 57th in the country with an 18-12 record. I literally just got back from visiting my oldest son at Illinois State University and they were ranked 33rd with a 23-9 record…they didn’t make the tournament.
Say what you must, but I think this example alone suggests that UK’s historical presence, fanbase, whatever is one of the reasons that UK made the tournament and ISU didn’t. I just do. I just don’t see it as a case of people hating UK…it’s much more of a fact that people love UK. Be glad of it.
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
It may be...
…The fact that UK plays in a power conference, and going 18-12 (12-4) in a power conference will hold more water then going then going 23-9 in a non-power conference…
That argument, I can deal with, but just because we are Kentucky…? We will have to just disagree…
Steelers fan 1st! UK is my 2nd love.
Syracuse
…plays in a power conference…the best conference by the way :)….and they were rated 2 spots above UK and they were left out. No way does Syracuse have the pedigree as Kentucky does.
[daggone it….you made me break my promise]
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
Cuse
Beat Fla, Kansas, Memphis, and Notre Dame (so far).
by FortyYearCatFan on Jan 19, 2009 9:33 PM EST up reply actions
That IS This Season
’Cuse beat those 4 teams on 2008-09 schedule.
by FortyYearCatFan on Jan 19, 2009 9:44 PM EST up reply actions
Perhaps the biggest factor when two teams are close to one another in the committee's ...
… eyes is their records over the last 12 games (it used to be 10 but they changed it last year). That may be why Syracuse didn’t get in last year, although I thought they deserved a bid.
IF we had beaten U of L or Miami, UK would be ranked right now
We dug ourselves an enormous hole in November. We’ve come along way since then and we’re improving each week. I think we’ll be ranked in next weeks polls provided we win both games this week.
GBB!!!
I don't know why ...
… the UNC loss would be. We were a prohibitive underdog, and it was early in the season against a deep and experienced Tarheel team on the road. That shouldn’t be much of a factor.
But VMI is another matter altogether…
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
But to hear the ESPN people tell it
We had fallen off the map because we couldn’t compete with the likes of UNC. And since 90 percent of sports fans swallow down everything ESPN says, I think it has a big impact.
Well ...
… in terms of competing for the national championship, I could hardly argue with them. Now, in terms of having a good basketball team that’s improving, I couldn’t disagree more.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
Thanks for a word of reason, Tru
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
Not sure what you mean, HK
I’m not reading where anyone here is touting UK as a national title contender.
Sorry...
…kind of confusing post. I mean to agree with Tru’s points that recently UK has fallen short of UNC’s recent historical play (heck, not too many teams can ‘compete’ with them)….and the fact that UK has shown great improvement.
'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'
UNC and Duke
Also went through down times before getting back to the top but didn’t seem to get the same scrutiny. Arrg.
ESPN has a financial stake in the ACC being successful
They carry the contract for the game. Its the same reason you saw the Rose Bowl get over-hyped on ESPN this year and very little hype (relatively speaking) for the BCS title game.
If people want to watch UNC and Duke… the ratings will go up and therefore ad revenue increases. We’ll benefit from that when ESPN has our contract next year. Wait and see.
Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."
We never sucked that bad.
Thank god. If I were a Carolina fan and had to go through the Doherty years, I might have hung myself. (And if I were a Duke fan, I’d just hang myself on principle.)
C! A! T! S! CATS! CATS! CATS!
I don't see ESPN being any different than any other media outlet....
UK has had issues the last few years and media outlets have correctly pointed that out. Not one Media outlet has been anywhere near as harsh as the UK fanbase has. The things I have heard and read over the last few years would make a preacher cuss.
Slower Traffic Keep Right!
talk about emrcaing the hate....
how would you like to be a Buckeye football fan right now? Talk about venom
Slower Traffic Keep Right!
All they do is go to BCS games and they are described as awful and overrated etc.
If I were a fan of theirs I would upset by all the criticism. Its not like they are unranked and a so-so team. In my opinion UK has not deserved butt kissing the last few years and the media has been somewhat down on them. But OSU has been very successful and still gets ripped at every opportunity. BTW I dislike OSu as much as the next guy.
Slower Traffic Keep Right!
AP Poll: Who Voted for UK and Who didn't
I thought this was pretty interesting….
http://pollspeak.com/pollstalker/pollstalker.php?s=6&p=10&t1=44&v=416&w=11&r=T
GBB!!!
Love from Seth Davis. Wow.
He must have actually watched the Tennessee game. :-)
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
Seth Davis...
…I think he had Kentucky in his “watch” list last week…
Steelers fan 1st! UK is my 2nd love.
By looking at these names of the voters, it seems that
the names we know, know us. And the names we don’t know, don’t know us. For example, Dickie V, Seth Davis, Jerry Tipton voted for us…..Ryan Malashock, Bill Liesse, and Paul Klee????? Who cares about their opinions, lol……
gobigbluecatsfan72
by gobigbluecatsfan72 on Jan 19, 2009 8:05 PM EST reply actions
I wonder if John Pelfrey voted for us in the coaches poll?
gobigbluecatsfan72
by gobigbluecatsfan72 on Jan 19, 2009 8:14 PM EST reply actions
my comments
for some strange reason, its not letting me comment straight from the thread so I am just making my comments here:
Dick Vitale: I have said this for years does not hate our UK. He has always lauded us with respect. He loves Duke/North Carolina but I have to say he loves us third. He was very frustrated by fans treatment of Tubby and said some things that he really shouldn’t have said based on the fact that he isn’t want of us. That is my only beef with him.
Media will always jump on UK when we are down and I think at read this on KSR. Like Van Pelt(sp?) said Kentucky is a newstory. If we get beat by a VMI we are the lead. If we have a scorer that scores 54 then we are the lead. I agree with him. We haven’t gotten the respect of the media over the last three years well because we haven’t deserved it. It will take more then winning a few games for us to be in conversation with North Carolina and Duke. I hate it but it is what it is. I am more upset with the 12 votes in the coaches poll. That just bothers the stew out of me. How do we get over one hundred votes in the media and only 12 in the coaches? Sounds to me like media is giving us more respect then coaches.
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