When you look up "pretentious" in the dictionary ...
... you find this guy's picture there.
Now, the old saying goes that they who live in glass houses ought to avoid throwing stones, but sometimes the target is just too tempting to ignore. Chris Diggs took issue with some snarky comments Tom Heiser made the other day, and he responds with this post.
Anyone who reads me knows that I am fond of throwing in some high-toned rhetoric, including a number of polysyllabic words, and even the occasional Latin phrase. But Heiser has my act beat with:
He also blustered on about my disabused notion that UK basketball doesn't belong in the same breath currently with North Carolina, Duke and UCLA, prompting this chunk of Asimovian reality:
Well. Asmovian reality is just right there in my mind, waiting to be plucked by his erudite turn of phrase. But can you imagine Louisville fans when they read this? Is "The Thinker" the image that pops into your head when you visualize your average Cardinal fan? Maybe it's just me.
More after the jump ...
But that's not all. In the same post, we have this beauty:
Any time UK's status in the SEC is mentioned, the hammer-to-the-knee reaction is to champion the conference's lofty status as one of the preeminent, if not the preeminent, leagues in the country. No argument here. I'll never dispute the SEC's place at the top of the football food chain. To quote ex-Communist Arthur Koestler:
You can't help being right for the wrong reasons. This fear of finding oneself in bad company is not an expression of [political] purity; it's an expression of a lack of self confidence.
I don't know about you, but when I think of Arthur Koestler, I draw a blank. Maybe the Cardinal fans are fond of ex-Communists' sayings, but somehow I think this about as apropos to sports as Brittany Spears dressed as a Knight of the Round Table and subbing for Uga VII at The World's Largest Outdoor Cocktail Party. Your mileage may vary, though.
As to the substance of his remarks, Heiser points out in defense of his argument that the SEC is not better than the Big East, because of this:
The argument that I've tried to make is that SEC superiority as a conference is insupportable, if not irrelevant, in matchups on the field. Not only has U of L regularly stifled UK over the majority of the last eight years, but South Florida and West Virginia have made great play with the likes of Georgia and Auburn.
Tom, your facts are accurate, but they support some other argument, not the one you are trying to make. The Big East has had relatively good success against the SEC in head-to-head games, but when we look at the body of work, those little data points fall into utter irrelevance.
Between 1991 (when the Big East was formed) and 2007, here are the post-season records of each conference:
| Team | Bowls 1991-2007 | Wins | Losses | W/L% | % Bowls |
| West Va. | 11 | 3 | 8 | 0.27 | 0.65 |
| Uconn | 1 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 0.06 |
| Cincinnati | 6 | 3 | 3 | 0.5 | 0.35 |
| USF | 2 | 1 | 1 | 0.5 | 0.12 |
| Rutgers | 2 | 1 | 1 | 0.5 | 0.12 |
| Louisville | 11 | 5 | 6 | 0.45 | 0.65 |
| Pittsburgh | 6 | 2 | 4 | 0.33 | 0.35 |
| Syracuse | 9 | 6 | 3 | 0.67 | 0.53 |
| Total | 48 | 22 | 26 | 0.46 | 0.35 |
| Team | Bowls 1991-2007 | Wins | Losses | W/L% | % Bowls |
| LSU | 10 | 8 | 2 | 0.8 | 0.59 |
| Georgia | 13 | 10 | 3 | 0.77 | 0.76 |
| Tennessee | 16 | 8 | 8 | 0.5 | 0.94 |
| Florida | 16 | 8 | 8 | 0.5 | 0.94 |
| Auburn | 10 | 6 | 4 | 0.6 | 0.59 |
| Arkansas | 9 | 2 | 7 | 0.22 | 0.53 |
| Miss. St. | 6 | 2 | 4 | 0.33 | 0.35 |
| Alabama | 12 | 7 | 5 | 0.58 | 0.71 |
| Kentucky | 4 | 1 | 3 | 0.25 | 0.24 |
| S. Carolina | 5 | 4 | 1 | 0.8 | 0.29 |
| Vanderbilt | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| Ole Miss | 8 | 6 | 2 | 0.75 | 0.47 |
| Total | 109 | 62 | 47 | 0.57 | 0.53 |
So tell me, Tom -- what would Arthur Koestler have to say about that?
Bottom line -- Chris Diggs is right, and no matter how you try to spin it, Tom Heiser is .... well, not. In basketball, the Big East is definitely somebody. In football, they are just barely above Conference USA. Those are the facts, and they should be undisputed.
But to the ultimate, larger point about Kentucky, Heiser is right. The fact of the SEC's strength does not make Kentucky a good team. Historically, we are a placemat in the SEC -- not as bad as Vandy, but certainly not what anyone would call a success. As to whether or not Louisville would have done better in the SEC than Kentucky during the Brohm years, that is a question that will remain forever academic.
But would Louisville have done better than Kentucky in the SEC last year? I rather doubt it, considering they had trouble in the inarguably weaker Big East, lost to Kentucky and couldn't even get to a bowl, and as I recall, Brohm was still there. As to this year, we'll have to wait and see. But instead of advancing the ball past the 20, I'd say Tom is pinned inside his own 5.
2 recs |
39 comments
Comments
What's the phrase? Yeah, pompous ass ...
... perfectly describes Heiser. Oh, and also, WRONG most of the time, regardless of how much he attempts to “pretty up” his opinions.
He is a picture perfect example of a typical Card fan who suffers from the disease that has hit Card nation since the arrival of Denny Crum, the often times fatal to reasoning, inferiority-complex.
Tru has impressively excoriated the poor fellow … aaah.
by Ken Howlett on Jul 30, 2008 6:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Great post Tru...
Knocking down Tom.
Chris Diggs has found himself in a situation I am sure he did not expect with all this UK-UL stuff.
This upcoming football game has fueled a bunch of swhit on the CJ website…I cannot imagine working alongside someone like Tom at this time.
by kykat51 on Jul 30, 2008 6:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Huh?
I look here to news about Kentucky athletics, not about some silly feud bloggers are having. keep it to youselves in emails.
by Paris on Jul 30, 2008 7:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
and yet...
...you took the time to write a comment. why keep reading after the jump? couldn’t figure out this was about “some silly feud bloggers are having” huh?
GO BIG BLUE!! GO BIG BLUE!!
by UKWildCatFanatic on Jul 30, 2008 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you serious?
I guess you don’t realize that this is a blog you are reading? It sometimes has news and sometimes has other things of interest to those that like UK sports. In reading your other comments, I even wonder why you are here as each one is in some way painting the referenced article in bad light. I rather enjoy the commentary, insights, news, and other articles that are published on this site and I think I am in the majority when I tell you to get over it. If you don’t like the article, don’t read it. And go somewhere else for your “news.”
Xbox Live Gamertag: hoopchi
by hoopchi on Jul 30, 2008 7:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Heh
Well, sometimes I enjoy writing about our rivals, and chiding them a bit. Writing every story about UK athletics is not what we have ever done here.
During the doldrums of summer, you may find me writing about the theoretical relationship between the strong nuclear force and a jelly doughnut.
That’s just how I roll.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on Jul 30, 2008 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
+1!!
i’m going to be quoting this whenever i want to do whatever i want:
the theoretical relationship between the strong nuclear force and a jelly doughnut.
just awesome.
GO BIG BLUE!! GO BIG BLUE!!
by UKWildCatFanatic on Jul 30, 2008 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And in addition
Thank god for Vandy or we’d be sucking hind tit in the SEC.
by Paris on Jul 30, 2008 7:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Really?
I think even without Vandy, we wouldn’t have been “sucking hind tit” in either of the last two years.
Not that you would have noticed, apparently.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on Jul 30, 2008 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Please go away Paris...
This site does not need you or want your comments.
I have seen your comments in the past…go away.
by kykat51 on Jul 30, 2008 7:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Penetratingly and perspicaciously penned, Tru. One gathers that Heisser employs sesquipedal speak merely to sound erudite.
In actuality, his writing comes across forced, choppy and generally unreadable (and I’m referring to the syntax alone, not the content!)
When I saw the title of the post my mind raced with possible candidates Pitino? Petrino? Coach Krybabyzewski (sp?)? Rick Dutrow? Think you nailed the pick of the litter though.
Two months (!). Two weeks. Two pencils.
by Thomas Hunt Morgan on Jul 30, 2008 8:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Uhmmm..
are you two in some sort of vocabulary squabble.. trying to impress with words? geeezzzz…. how silly. Get over yourselves…
by MyBloodRunsBlue on Jul 30, 2008 9:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
and UK does not belong in the same breath
with UNC, Duke or UCLA.. not even close. That is how far Tubby brought UK down. I certainly think that will change in the next year or two.
Now I will wait for the old guy to call me a racist even though I am a man of color.
by MyBloodRunsBlue on Jul 30, 2008 9:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
FYI
I go back to the 50’s and 60’s and I grew up with the black community in my predominantly Catholic small town. I never had prejudice towards them as my parents taught me to love all peoples. And many of the Negro community in my hometown have shown themselves to be outstanding citizens and I have known many personally.
Get over the racist thing…that has been deleted for a very long time.
by kykat51 on Jul 30, 2008 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, bother.
Keep Smith out of this thread, please. His name is not mentioned. This thread is about football, not basketball.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on Jul 30, 2008 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Forty
His comment was unfair and out of line; I was going to say that, but Tru had already closed the comments. Still, I hope we’ll leave it in the past for the sake of the excellent discussion that usually takes place here. If it does come up again, I trust Tru will handle it appropriately.
by Acdixon on Jul 31, 2008 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And ...
... I also warned Forty about it. As I warned MyBloodRunsBlue for his over the top comments.
Look, MyBloodRunsBlue, if you have a feud with Forty from some other board or relationship, keep it the hell off my blog. Same goes for anyone else who might have some kind of previous grudge against someone else.
Life is too short for this crap.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on Jul 31, 2008 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just to be clear
Didn’t mean to make that sound like I was blaming you, either, Tru. You do a good job putting the quietus to petty stuff. Just been itching to get that out of my system. I despise seeing people play the race card where it is not clearly warranted.
by Acdixon on Jul 31, 2008 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No problem.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on Jul 31, 2008 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree..
he plays the race card and it is shameful.
by MyBloodRunsBlue on Jul 31, 2008 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am on no other blog..
so i don’t know what you are talking about.
by MyBloodRunsBlue on Jul 31, 2008 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK, that's fine.
Bury the hatchet and lets all move on.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on Jul 31, 2008 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh Geez...
Why in the world of this excellent UK blog would you want to say that?
I hope that FortyYear will restrain his comments as we here do not need or want confrontation in any manner.
by kykat51 on Jul 30, 2008 9:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Go Away?
and miss all this gushy, gooey love you have for the never failing, always a winner Wildcats?
I bet you all are going to love spending your money to see those battles against Norfork State, Middle Tenn and Western. Win them and we’re half way to a bowl game. Now just finding three more wins and we can go on saying how this coach is right up there with Bear Bryant.
When Bryant was going to the bowls there were seven and eight TOTAL bowls. Not the thirty one or thirty two they have now. If you made it to a bowl then you beat someone to get there. They didn’t have the three ‘show up and win’ games the fans are paying for now to feel good going into the conference schedule.
Go away? Not in this life time. I need to come here to see just how silly you all can be over coaches like Brooks and Billy G.
Wouldn’t it be nice to finish higher than fifth in the Eastern Division in football.
And no we didn’t last year. At Paris they taught us K comes before S as in South Carolina, who by the way had a terrible season, didn’t go bowling but did beat Kentucky.
Yep, We have reached the level of also rans in the SEC. But lets keep Barnhart around to see just how low the programs can get before we get a real athletic director.
Sorry people, I can’t be happy like you while the kingdom is crumbling.
And for the forty year fan, I’ve got you my twenty.
by Paris on Jul 30, 2008 10:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I can't wait
until you are made to eat your words by Billy G., Brooks and eventually Joker Phillips. Your statements are idiotic and utterly negative. Who needs opposing teams to play against when a University has a fan like you? Why don’t you and Billy Packer work as Wal Mart greeters together and talk about how great everything was before electricity was invented.
That's what she said.
by adaircam4 on Jul 31, 2008 1:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whatever.
Your excessive negativism is extremely annoying. You are welcome to disagree, but you are not welcome to drag down the blog with comments like this. If you wish to criticize, support it with something other than “Sorry people, I can’t be happy like you while the kingdom is crumbling.”
Most people here are positive fans who want to encourage the program, not drag it down with hypercritical opinions based on nothing other than an unfounded nonsense and living 50 years in the past. I don’t quite know how to tell you this, but Kentucky’s football kingdom crumbled back in 1955, and despite an occasional foray into competency, has pretty much remained in ruins since.
How you can be critical of Brooks for restoring to program to at least a modicum of respectability simply cannot be justified rationally. At least your dislike of Gillispie has some basis that could be considered “rational,” even if is taken only in isolation and without considering the fact that he hasn’t had but one year here. Bear Bryant and Adolph Rupp are not walking through that door—in fact, neither of them are walking anywhere on this Earth.
So please, don’t come in here just to stir the pot, or if you are going to do that, try to do it with a sense of respect for your fellow member and Kentucky fan, no matter how much you disagree with them. You are welcome to dislike the entire athletic department from Barnhart on down, that’s your right. But if you are going to bash them, at least have the decency to support your position with something other than an orphaned statement of criticism, so that others may respond to the logic (if that’s what it is) that theoretically lies behind your dislike. Comparing 2008 to 1952 is not, generally speaking, a valid argument.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on Jul 31, 2008 7:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Diggs is not right, at least not completely
No one being honest with themselves is going to argue that the Big East is a better football conference then the SEC, but statements like “a conference struggling to maintain its BCS affiliation,” and “Vanderbilt could play with anybody in the Big East” simply aren’t true.
The Big East is the only league in the country undefeated in BCS games over the last three years. Any talk of the conference losing its BCS affiliation died when West Virginia beat Georgia in Atlanta in the ‘06 Sugar Bowl.
If there were some sort of annual Big East/SEC challenge in football, then I think the results would be every bit as one-sided as the ACC/Big Ten challenge in basketball. But when South Florida beats Auburn at Auburn, and West Virginia destroys Mississippi State for the second straight year, I think it renders mindless statements like “Vanderbilt could play with any team in the Big East” pretty vacant.
If we’re just barely above C-USA, then where the hell is the ACC?
I have no idea who Arthur Koestler is.
by Mike Rutherford on Jul 31, 2008 4:13 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
*than* the SEC
If I’d read more Koestler I wouldn’t make these types of mistakes.
by Mike Rutherford on Jul 31, 2008 4:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Mike
While I agree completely that Diggs stating that the Big East is “struggling to maintain its BCS affiliation” is hyperbole, and by the way, wrong, what he wrote about Vandy was the following: “I would glady put Vanderbilt … against anyone in the Big East, and the Commodores would give them a heck of a fight, if not win the game.”
In any given year his Vandy statement is probably very close to being accurate. Heck, Vandy plays most all of their SEC opponents close on a fairly consistent basis, downgrading to a Big East schedule would only increase their chances at victory on any given Saturday.
I do like WVU and what they’ve done over the last few years, and Greg Schiano is doing a great job at Rutgers, along with Jim Levette ( sp.) at S. Florida. But all one has to do is watch any five Big East games and any five SEC games, to realize there is simply no comparison in the talent levels, yet.
By the way, the ACC is pathetic.
by Ken Howlett on Jul 31, 2008 6:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't agree ...
... with Diggs’ comment that the Big East is “struggling to maintain it’s BCS affiliation.” I don’t even know what that is supposed to mean.
Part and parcel, though, of understanding football or any other sport is understanding who you have beaten, and where their place is in the hierarchy that year. South Florida beating Auburn at Auburn in overtime is no more shocking than Auburn beating Florida at Florida. Auburn had a schizophrenic team last year, capable of losing to anyone or beating anyone, which they proved in a microcosm in those two games. They barely beat an average Arkansas team, turned around and almost upset the BCS champs in Baton Rouge.
Mississippi State, a traditional doormat turned mid-pack SEC team last year who could have just as easily been 1-7 in the league instead of 4-4 with just a few bounces of the football lost huge to Virginia Tech, traditionally the best team in the Big East, in Morgantown. What a shocker.
Nobody is suggesting the Big East has no good football teams, and if they are, they are wrong. Virginia Tech could compete at a high level in any league including the SEC. Louisville has a strong program that could also be successful in the SEC, although I think most years the best they could hope for is mid-pack with the odd foray (see 2004, 2006) into the upper reaches.
Syracuse has a rich history of good football, and presumably will someday recover from their current state of futility, but they would be food for the gods in the SEC right now. Pittsburgh isn’t horrible, and USF is up and coming, but neither of those would be anything but a cannon fodder in the SEC, much like Kentucky has been and pretty much continues to be. After that, the Big East has teams that Vanderbilt would have beaten soundly last year.
Where is the ACC? Right there with the Big East - a great basketball conference. :)
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on Jul 31, 2008 7:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Truz
I guess I’m just not enough of a ‘rah rah’ guy to sit around and buy in to all this stuff about how good the Kentucky program is now.
I’m not the one who is comparing Brooks to Bryant. Its the sports writers and the wanna be sports writers (bloggers), who are eager to make the comparison. I’m not dumb enough to compare going the the Music City Bowl with going to the Sugar and Cotton Bowls.
I’ll wait for Billy G, and Brooks and Joker to make the big turn around. Just hope it happens in the next decade though. I might not be here for it.
How come if I don’t come in here and buy into what a wonderful athletic program the Cats have now I’m asked to get out?
If you are wanting only someone who agrees with everything you say to pump up you and their egos you’ve pretty much accomplished it. Its a shame you can’t stand for someone to question your judgement.
Maybe sometime you’ll find there is other opinions other than yours.
by Paris on Jul 31, 2008 9:13 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I didn't ...
... ask you to get out. In fact, this comment is right in line with what I prefer here. You made a very fair point and defended it, and I have no truck with that.
Some people get annoyed by your point of view. Many fans want to see the glass half-full all the time, and I think that’s what helps keep fans together. Sometimes ignoring reality and leaning on the future is the only way to get through tough times. Constantly delving into negativism is not a way to keep a fan base united—recall the terrible online wars of the late Tubby Smith era, some of which still echo today.
I am fine with what you are saying, my concern is about how you have been saying it. When you make an extremely negative comment, it is what we call in the biz, “baiting.” You know when you make one that it is going to attract a negative reaction, and calls for you to go somewhere else. Those kinds of comments are not helpful. We all can be critical of our program without being so overtly negative that the reflex reaction is anger and outrage.
All I’m asking is for you to be considerate of your fellow-members and fellow-fans, and they will be considerate of you. If they don’t, I’ll correct them. But blasting our head coaches and athletics director as incompetents is never going to win you friends and influence people on this blog. We have too many people who wear blue-colored sunglasses, including yours truly.
As far as questioning my judgment, you are free to do that anytime, but please remember that I am a person, too. How would you like it if I told you something you were proud of sucked? You wouldn’t like it. How would you like it if, when you were trying to get some positive thinking on a subject, somebody came up and told you that you were wasting your time and that reality is much worse than your hopes? Nobody likes that. Arguing realism is one thing, but trashing everyone else’s worldview with blunt comments is just totally different.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on Jul 31, 2008 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Paris
I challenge you to show me where anyone on this blog compared Bear Bryant to Rick Brooks.
I challenge you to show me where anyone on this blog stated that UK’s last two bowl wins compare to Bryant’s teams winning the Sugar and Cotton Bowls.
Furthermore, I challenge you to show me where a sportswriter compared Bryant to Brooks. You stated: “I’m not the one comparing Brooks to Bryant. Its the sports writers and the wanna be sports writers ( bloggers ).”
If you think that the UK football program hasn’t made tremendous strides over the last 4-5 years then you need to take a remedial course in collegiate athletics.
Try this on for size; try backing up your BS with some facts or statistics. You are extremely dogmatic; making statements without a hint of supportive evidence.
Other than that, I hear UL is looking for folks to fill up their stadium.
by Ken Howlett on Aug 1, 2008 12:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Got it wrong
Dude, its not your disagreeing thats the issue . Feel free to disagree all you want just express it rationally with some type of logical reasoning instead of just bashing on people.
DEEETROIT BASKETBALLL!!!
by davw83 on Jul 31, 2008 9:57 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Debate
Think of it like debate class instead of argueing with your buddy over beer and calling him names.
DEEETROIT BASKETBALLL!!!
by davw83 on Jul 31, 2008 9:58 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
UK FB is still a laughing stock
My, what courage one win at home, from a broken play, on a last second play from the worst Cardinal team in years brings to the hopeless kat fan. Must be the GLORY of a music bowl victory in 2 visits to Nashville. Maybe you can make it back again for #3.
by Cards8386 on Aug 23, 2008 1:28 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

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