Pilgrim a Wildcat...

by ReverendBlue on Jun 3, 2008 10:17 PM EDT

According to reports I've seen (Kentucky Sports Radio), Pilgrim is now a Wildcat. I read that he has moved into the Wildcat Lodge. He's a big, athletic body but also has a reputation as having attitude problems. He will likely either thrive under Billy Clyde or he won't make it past Christmas. I hope he's a Heshimu Evans-type transfer who comes in with a great attitude and makes a solid contribution. I don't recall being blown away by his stats from last season. I'm wondering about the quality of the competition he faced at Hampton Inn.

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Heshimu Evans

He was Conference POY as Manhattan (NYC) College soph. Much better college career stats as frosh and soph than Pilgrim.

I doubt Pilgrim will be another Evans.

by FortyYearCatFan on Jun 4, 2008 9:49 AM EDT 0 recs

Evans

Evans was 1st Team All-MAAC, but he wasn’t the POY.

He did win “Rookie of the Year” his freshman year though.

by Ken Howlett on Jun 4, 2008 3:23 PM EDT up 0 recs

misleading stats

Forty I think this guy is a case where the stats do not accurately reflect the player’s abilities. NBA scouts feel Pilgrim has the ability to play in the association and could even become a star. He has the talent but, like many young men, has consistency problems. A year of Gillispie practices should be able to work out any issues he may have. He is a risk, but his potential upside warrents theinvestment, IMO of course.

Still not a crook!

by TrickyD26 on Jun 4, 2008 10:22 AM EDT 0 recs

Agree With That (Generally) But

Pilgrim will not be another Evans at UK.

by FortyYearCatFan on Jun 4, 2008 10:56 AM EDT 0 recs

How so?

In terms of impact, success, what? I probably agree with you, but I need a bit more of an explanation,

Still not a crook!

by TrickyD26 on Jun 4, 2008 11:21 AM EDT up 0 recs

All Of Those

Evans was 6th man on NCAA title team and starter on Elite 8 team.

Pilgrim will (more than likely) be a back-up PF at UK like he was at Hampton.

Evans was Double Digit scorer at UK. I don’t forsee Pilgrim doing that.

by FortyYearCatFan on Jun 4, 2008 11:33 AM EDT 0 recs

Maybe not as successful as Evans

but I think under BCG he can easily average 10 ppg and 7 boards.

Still not a crook!

by TrickyD26 on Jun 4, 2008 2:26 PM EDT up 0 recs

Both Years Added Together, Maybe So

Only one Wildcat averaged 10+ ppg and 7 boards under Gillispie. Patterson. Pilgrim is not PP or even close.

by FortyYearCatFan on Jun 4, 2008 2:45 PM EDT up 0 recs

That's a bit of a small sample size dont you think?

Still not a crook!

by TrickyD26 on Jun 4, 2008 3:25 PM EDT up 0 recs

10 PPG And 7 REBS = RARE At UK

Chuck Hayes did it. Jamal Mashburn. Antoine Walker. Very few others in the past 20 years.

by FortyYearCatFan on Jun 4, 2008 3:36 PM EDT up 0 recs

Wishful thinking I suppose

but if he indeed has the talent NBA scounts think he does, 10 and 7 could be possible. Hopefully he and Patterson will be a leathal combo down low in 2009 (Please stay PP!!).

Still not a crook!

by TrickyD26 on Jun 4, 2008 3:54 PM EDT up 0 recs

I Saw Him Play In HS

I don’t see it. It being 10 / 7 or NBA potential. I see a back-up PF at high Div I level, at best.

by FortyYearCatFan on Jun 4, 2008 5:15 PM EDT up 0 recs

you mean...

...in the one year he’s been here?

GO BIG BLUE!! GO BIG BLUE!!

by UKWildCatFanatic on Jun 4, 2008 3:33 PM EDT up 0 recs

Why recruit him?

If he is a back-up pp at best, then why even look at the guy? Is/was he the best out there that we could have gotten? I think fortyyear has some great insight and i respect your knowledge, but i hope your way off on this one! Otherwise, i don’t see where it was a benefit to have the guy.

by Magnoliacat on Jun 5, 2008 1:02 PM EDT up 0 recs

Cincy Is My Hometown

I have friends who are AAU coaches there. My insight is not Out Of Thin Air.

I wish Pilgrim luck. I see him as back-up PF at UK, at best. We’ll C how he does.

by FortyYearCatFan on Jun 5, 2008 5:03 PM EDT up 0 recs

Mu's UK Stats

http://www.bigbluehistory.net/bb/statistics/Players/Evans_Heshimu.html I don’t see Matt Pilgrim anywhere close to those 2 year numbers. We’ll C but I doubt it.

Good pick-up. Good back-up PF.

by FortyYearCatFan on Jun 4, 2008 11:36 AM EDT 0 recs

Back-up at Hampton....

If we base his ability on that he was a back-up pf at Hampton, then i’d say we got another Jared Carter.

by Magnoliacat on Jun 4, 2008 1:13 PM EDT 0 recs

I think his backup status is do more to his attitude ...

... than his physical abilities. Also, he did start eleven games last year.

He’ll only be another “Jared Carter” if he hurts something the moment he steps on campus.

by Ken Howlett on Jun 4, 2008 3:12 PM EDT 0 recs

O'Charleys?

Does Pilgrim like loaded potato soup? Maybe the two can hang out.

by KingKentucky on Jun 4, 2008 5:11 PM EDT up 0 recs

Pilgrim is a project and a gamble...

We won’t know exactly what we have until we see the kid play. However, one also has to wonder how much our staff has actually seen this kid play as well. At this point, we must go by what he did during his first two years playing for the Hampton Inn, which is modest.

On a positive side, if anyone can maximize the raw athleticism some report he has and force this kid to give an effort, it is likely Billy G. I still say this kid will either emerge as a solid contributer who thrives under Billy G’s demanding style or he will be forever remembered as a lazy attitude problem that threatens the unity and chemistry of the team. We’ve already seen examples of both. Joe Crawford and Ramel Bradley made more progress in one year under Billy G than 3 under Tubby. Yet, Alex Legion blew up on us. Many will recall Nazi Muhammad and Jamal Maglore as undervalued recruits who exceeded expectations and went on to NBA careers. Yet Benedict Rick also brought in Carlos Toomer as a project that never panned out. Let’s hope Billy G’s latest project works out.

by ReverendBlue on Jun 6, 2008 9:11 AM EDT 0 recs

Slight correction

I would just like to note that Muhammad spells his name “Nazr.” Wouldn’t want to unfairly associate him with fascism! LOL

He was one of my favorite players. I never got to go do Rupp during his matriculation, but I really wanted to be there with a sign that said “Crazr for Nazr!” Maybe I can make it to a Bobcats game sometime. :)

by Acdixon on Jun 6, 2008 9:34 AM EDT up 0 recs

Actually

If you compare Crawford and Bradley as Juniors and Seniors, you won’t see a whole lot of difference.

Nazr Mohammed struggled in 1996 and somewhat in 1997 but excelled in 1998.

Jamaal Magloire struggled in 1997 and 1998 but excelled in 1999 and 2000.

Was it the coaching then, too? (like you say for Crawford and Bradley in 2008)

by FortyYearCatFan on Jun 6, 2008 4:11 PM EDT up 0 recs

Actually, you are way off base on Nazr and Jamaal, 40.

Nazr did not “struggle” in ‘96—he just played behind a handful of great older players headed for the NBA ahead of him. The jump in his numbers in ‘97 is only because he had played only a grand total of 88 minutes on the national championship team the year before, and didn’t even have enough minutes to generate any numbers to speak of.

It is a joke to imply he had some kind of breakout year in ‘97-’98. The truth is that he had only very modest improvement in his rebounding and shot blocking from the previous year (though he actually had fewer steals per 40 in ‘98), and the modest increase in points per 40 was attributable to the loss of Ron Mercer and Derek Anderson as scoring options, not to some kind of coaching differential. He didn’t suck in ‘96-’97, and he wasn’t a hero in ‘97-’98. He had to start scoring more because Ron and Derek were no longer available to do the job.

Your assertion with respect to Jamaal Magloire is even more bizarre and out of line with the actual numbers. Jamaal actually had a GREAT Freshman season by anyone’s reckoning—25 steals, 79 blocked shots, and 177 rebounds, and his numbers in each of those categories per 40 minutes played are BETTER than those he earned in his Junior year, in which you claim he “excelled.” If you’re talking about the points per 40 minutes stat, the “dramatic’ improvement from Jamaal’s Freshman year to his Junior year was from 12.5 to 14.2 PP40. By my standards, that does not reflect a journey from “struggling” at 12.5 to “excelling” at 14.2.

(In truth, Jamaal’s defensive numbers got steadily worse each year, not better, as he desperately tried to generate an offensive game to try to be a higher draft pick. I think this was a mistake on his part, although many say Tubby made him do it.)

In fact, Jamaal’s numbers in his Freshman year in steals, blocks, and rebounds per 40 minutes are better than those generated by Patrick Patterson THIS year. The only category in which Pat performed better was in points per 40 minutes (12.5 for Jamaal, and 18.4 for Pat—great Freshman numbers for both).

All I can say is, I hope ALL our Freshmen “struggle” like that , 40!

It is true that Tubby Smith “struggled” with how to use Jamaal’s great talent (how to build a system that took advantage of it), but Tubby finally got his stuff together by Jamaal’s Senior season. No, Tubby was not as good as Rick at doing that, but he did eventually get it right.

I do agree with you that the alleged transformation with respect to Ramel and Joe in their senior season is overblown. It is more a difference in degree than a difference in kind. Sadly, neither Tubby nor BCG could figure out how to keep Ramel from giving the ball away.
KP

by Ken Pomeroy on Jun 15, 2008 1:58 AM EDT up 0 recs

Nazr And Jamaal

Nazr as a Junior > Nazr as Soph or Frosh. Made All-SEC as junior. Averaged 12 ppg. Greatly improved over his Soph year numbers, not even close.

Magloire as Junior and Senior > Magloire as Soph or Frosh. Even wider disparity. Magloire made All-SEC as senior and averaged 13 ppg.

UK players are better as Jr/Sr than Frosh/Soph in most cases. Padgett. Turner. Mills. To name 3.

by FortyYearCatFan on Jun 15, 2008 9:49 AM EDT up 0 recs

Nazr And Jamaal

http://www.bigbluehistory.net/bb/Statistics/Players/Mohammed_Nazr.html Nazr as Junior > the other 2 years.

http://www.bigbluehistory.net/bb/Statistics/Players/Magloire_Jamaal.html Magloire as Junior and especially Senior > the other 2 years.

by FortyYearCatFan on Jun 15, 2008 10:04 AM EDT up 0 recs

I don't agree...

... that Crawford and Bradley performed the same their junior year as their senior year. Bradley became the leader of this team and emerged as a reliable scoring threat. Crawford went from part-time effort and near-transfer to playing his heart out the second half of his senior year and stealing the hearts of most Wildcat faithful. The way it sounds, he may have worked himself right into a NBA draft pick.

by ReverendBlue on Jun 7, 2008 12:19 AM EDT 0 recs

Not A Whole Lot Of Difference As Jrs / Srs

http://www.bigbluehistory.net/bb/statistics/Players/Crawford_Joe.html Crawford here.

http://www.bigbluehistory.net/bb/statistics/Players/Bradley_Ramel.html Bradley here.

Crawford started as Soph, Jr, and Sr. He gave full effort and did not consider transfer after Frosh year.

Bradley was a team leader as Jr and Sr. Both JC and RB improved, year to year, at UK.

Every year at UK, not just as seniors.

by FortyYearCatFan on Jun 7, 2008 6:42 AM EDT 0 recs

Stats

Again – STATISTICALLY maybe there was “not a whole lot of difference” in Bradley and Crawford but for anyone that WATCHED games from year to year – that difference is undeniable. I have NEVER seen Crawford or Bradley play the way they played this year. I know how you are about Tubby, but no amount of your statistics is going to “prove you right” on this one. I know what I saw. These two players were outstanding AS SENIORS. They flourished under GILLISPIE. Stats or not – that’s just how it is.

by kentuckygirl0724 on Jun 9, 2008 7:40 AM EDT up 0 recs

Crawford was significantly better last year

Almost 4 ppg more while also increasing his FG%, 3pt%, and FT%.

Still not a crook!

by TrickyD26 on Jun 10, 2008 1:39 PM EDT up 0 recs

Very Similar Numbers (Not Identical) As Junior And Senior

Padgett greatly improved in 1998 and 99 compared to 1997.

Turner greatly improved in 1998 an 99 compared to 1996 and 97.

Nazr greatly improved in 1998 compared to 1997.

Magloire greatly improved in 1999 and 2000 compared to 1997.

Quite obviously, it was better coaching then, too? Right???

by FortyYearCatFan on Jun 11, 2008 9:51 AM EDT up 0 recs

why is

every compliment of Coach Gillispie taken as a shot at Coach Smith?

GO BIG BLUE!! GO BIG BLUE!!

by UKWildCatFanatic on Jun 11, 2008 10:19 AM EDT up 0 recs

Because It Is Both

Read what was written.

by FortyYearCatFan on Jun 11, 2008 11:32 PM EDT up 0 recs

not necessarily here

i didn’t mean just this case…but pretty much anytime Gillispie is mentioned.

GO BIG BLUE!! GO BIG BLUE!!

by UKWildCatFanatic on Jun 12, 2008 12:16 AM EDT up 0 recs

Gillispie

Good coaching “prospect” with lots of upside.

UK’s other coaches (Rupp, Pitino, Hall, Tubby, Sutton) were already “up” on top or close.

by FortyYearCatFan on Jun 12, 2008 10:39 PM EDT up 0 recs

No Way?

Hall was a career assistant at the time he took over the program. You cant argue he was on top of anything as far as being in charge of his own program and Tubby was the coach at Georgia with a little longer NCAA tourney resume than Billy G.

Please realize that you dont have to defend the previous coaches anytime someone compliments Billy G.

DEEETROIT BASKETBALLL!!!

by davw83 on Jun 13, 2008 9:21 AM EDT up 0 recs

Ditto Rupp In 1930

I meant that those 5 coaches had / have already been On Top.

Gillispie hasn’t (yet).

by FortyYearCatFan on Jun 13, 2008 7:50 PM EDT up 0 recs

Ok FortyYear...

I want your honest assessment of Coach G after only 1 year at UK.

Don’t give me stats, I want something else…his coaching ability, his recruiting ability, his relationship with his players and recruits in the past year. Just give me an honest assessment of Coach G and please do not compare him to any coach Ky has had in the past. Tell me what you think as an avid follower of UK basketball. Can you do that?

by kykat51 on Jun 13, 2008 10:25 PM EDT up 0 recs

I'll Toss Out Nov And December 2007

Gillispie did one heckuva coaching job in SEC play. Despite numerous injuries, he coached his battered team to 12-4 record and was one of a very few teams to defeat Tennessee in 08 season.

His coaching in postseason was a little disappointing but the loss of Patterson late in the season rendered cocahing moot.

I tossed out Nov/Dec 2007 because his coaching was terrible then.

by FortyYearCatFan on Jun 14, 2008 8:13 AM EDT up 0 recs

Forgot Recruiting

Too early to tell. Obviously he is A+ on recruitng BUZZ but results are To Be Determined.

Patterson was UK bound anyway. But G did a great job re-selling him after OTS left.

Legion was disappointing.

UK signed two straight Top 5 classes in 1998 and 99. Not unusual for a new coach to do very well at recruiting.

UK signed two straight Nothing Special classes in 1990 and 91. Ditto in 1972 and 73. Yet Pitino and Hall turned out to be masterful recruiters in the end.

by FortyYearCatFan on Jun 14, 2008 8:18 AM EDT up 0 recs

By The Way

I’ve followed UK avidly since the mid 1960’s. I’m a student of UK basketball history and encourage you to do the same. I see at least 1 UK road game every season.

My sister dated a Cat in the mid 70’s so those are my favorite teams because I knew the players firsthand. My favorite Cat is Erik Daniels because I know his family from Cincy.

I don’t toss comments lightly. I generally know the subject matter. If I don’t, I’ll say so.

by FortyYearCatFan on Jun 14, 2008 8:22 AM EDT up 0 recs

Thank you

for your response.

by kykat51 on Jun 14, 2008 9:26 AM EDT up 0 recs

If People Were Factually Honest About The Past

I wouldn’t say a word. Some are not. Fortunately none of those are here on ASOB.

UK has been a basketball powerhouse all of my life (1951 to present). I expect to continue saying that the rest of my life.

by FortyYearCatFan on Jun 14, 2008 10:00 AM EDT up 0 recs

Well, check your stats...

on Jamaal and Nazr. You’re way off base. (See above)

by Ken Pomeroy on Jun 15, 2008 2:08 AM EDT up 0 recs

Jon Scott Stats

Clearly make the case on Nazr or Magloire being better as upperclassmen at UK.

Like Sheppard. Padgett. Turner. Mills. Delk. And most other Cats.

by FortyYearCatFan on Jun 15, 2008 9:52 AM EDT up 0 recs

HMm?

What you meant and what you said are two different things and I dont care if they had been on top as assistants or not. That they had been on top as you say as an assistant says nothing about their ability to run a program. It just seems to me that you are highly critical of Billy G just because you feel the need to defend the previous coaching staff. It is possible to like both. Also I feel like it’s a waste of time everytime you stop to defend Tubby. There are still people out there who dont like the man and no rational argument you can make is going to sway their thinking. You just need to let it go otherwise you will be posting Tubby stats 25 years from now.

DEEETROIT BASKETBALLL!!!

by davw83 on Jun 14, 2008 11:28 AM EDT up 0 recs

I Compared Him To All 5 Prior Coaches

But let’s just compare him to Eddie Sutton. Easily the worst UK coach in my lifetime.

Sutton took Arkansas to FF in 1978 and had great results at Creighton (and Arkansas). He won over 70% of his career games and wound up with 800+ career W, averaging 22 W per season. He won 39 NCAA games (60%) in his career.

Sutton (in 1985) had a similar background but superior record to Gillispie. His first 3 years at UK yielded 25 W (average) per season.

His first 2 years of recruiting at UK brought Top 5 classes in 1986 (led by Rex) and 1987 (Eric Manuel was top recruit in that class).

SO FAR Sutton > Gillispie at UK.

by FortyYearCatFan on Jun 14, 2008 12:36 PM EDT up 0 recs

OK

Thats great but it wasnt the point of my statement.

DEEETROIT BASKETBALLL!!!

by davw83 on Jun 14, 2008 1:17 PM EDT up 0 recs

Compare Him To All 5 Then (1931 Through 2007)

He has nowhere to go but up then.

I applaud his SEC results in 2008. I was disappointed with OOC results in late 2007.

His recruiting has been good. Not better than those 5 coaches.

by FortyYearCatFan on Jun 14, 2008 6:47 PM EDT up 0 recs

WOO HOO

Im not arguing with you here about Billy G or the coaches. You dont have to convince me of anything. You obviously didnt catch what I said. The point of my previous statements was just to let you know that most people here agree with you and your feelings about Tubby and the other coaches but you dont have to harp on it so much. There are fans out there who never liked Tubby that are going to comment negatively on him no matter what and at this point the whole debate on their side and yours is really really old. Give it a rest. Your are never going to convince them that he was a good coach. You need to learn just to ignore them otherwise your just going to be posting stats for the rest of your life and that along with all of the combative posts trying to assert your correctness over everyone else gets a little old to read. Its ok that others have opinions too.

DEEETROIT BASKETBALLL!!!

by davw83 on Jun 15, 2008 12:05 AM EDT up 0 recs

Never said it was better coaching..

You said there was “not a whole ot of difference” between the two years, and Crawford was much better. Take it easy man. We really don’t have to do this every time Tubby’s name comes up. New coach, new excitement.

Still not a crook!

by TrickyD26 on Jun 11, 2008 2:20 PM EDT up 0 recs

Not Much Difference

Most players improve each year, frosh to senior. Joe C did. Ramel did.

So did most other UK players. Some didn’t – Rod Rhodes. Jared Prickett.

by FortyYearCatFan on Jun 11, 2008 11:33 PM EDT up 0 recs

See my correction of your statistical errors, above.

As I pointed out in another post above, the numbers do not support your assertions with respect to either Jamaal or Nazr.

Tubby was confused about how to use Jamaal, but in time he did figure it out.

by Ken Pomeroy on Jun 15, 2008 2:05 AM EDT up 0 recs

Jon Scott Stats

Nazr as Jr and Jamaal as Jr or Sr > Nazr or Jamaal as Frosh or Soph. No doubt at all.

by FortyYearCatFan on Jun 15, 2008 9:51 AM EDT up 0 recs

Correct

Both improved EACH year at UK.

Padgett was a dramatically better player in 1998 and 99 at UK.

Ditto Nazr in 1998. Or Magloire in 1999 and 2000.

Turner in 1998 and 99 >>> 1996 and 97 at UK.

Most players improve as juniors and seniors.

So did Bradley and Crawford.

by FortyYearCatFan on Jun 9, 2008 7:47 AM EDT 0 recs

The word out of the Elite Camp...

... is that Pilgrim is looking like a beast in the paint. If Billy G’s attitude gamble pays off, maybe we’re on to something here.

by ReverendBlue on Jun 10, 2008 8:28 AM EDT 0 recs

The problem has not been attitude.

It was the broken bone. My sources say he’s more than over the injury, is truly excelling, and feels he deserves a higher visibility place to launch a career at the next level. His coach has been working with him on this transfer for some time behind the scenes.

People need to stop saying he was a back up at Hampton, and has this great attitude problem. Read the history…

by Ken Pomeroy on Jun 15, 2008 2:14 AM EDT 0 recs

I think ...

... that there is sufficient commentary on his attitude from sources reasonably close to Pilgrim to suggest he had a problem with it at Hampton. Not a huge problem, maybe, and I trust Gillispie’s judgment on whether or not the kid is a risk.

Pilgrim is certainly skilled, particularly facing the basket and running the floor. I think he will fit in nicely if he is indeed ready to put any past behind him. I think he will be a nice player at UK, and I’m more than willing to put his past in the past, whatever it was.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Jun 15, 2008 9:55 AM EDT up 0 recs