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Stephenson and Gillispie, Speights, Crawford and IU

Lance Stephenson and Billy Gillispie

6-5 New York City shooting guard extraordinaire Lance Stephenson has reportedly added UK to his list of schools he will visit.  This according to a close family friend.  Previously it was thought the the '09 Rivals #2 SG was considering UCLA, Kansas, and USC.  But with the Mayo factor clouding SC's future NCAA Tournament prospects, Stephenson dropped the Trojans from his list ( was it worth it, Tim Floyd?). 

Along with UCLA and Kansas, UK will now battle for the player considered to be the best college prospect in New York City.   For me, this development carries quite a bit of significance: Billy Gillispie roaming around NYC  has to be a frightening thought for Carolina, Duke, and UConn, much less Gillispie's good friend Norm Roberts who coaches St. Johns.  Our friend down Interstate 64 might be relegated to playing second fiddle to Billy, not only in Kentucky, but also New York.  Ouch, that stings! 

Couple the fact that Gillispie could become a presence in the Big Apple with a commitment from Stephenson, with what Stephenson the player would mean to The Program, and 'Cat fans have a vitally important, difference-making decision to sweat out.  It's seems as if recruiting isn't going to be absent drama over the next few years, which was thought to be a possibility considering all of the commitments UK has received over the last couple of months.  

But Gillispie is a hustler, pure and simple.  His work-ethic is unquestionably admirable, and the leadership he is displaying with his actions surely isn't lost on his players.  Enough is never enough in Gillispie's world.  He is going to go after the absolute best players he can find, regardless of has already committed.  Kentucky fans should be thankful that our coach is working so hard to bring a Championship to UK.  I know he makes $2mil per year, as do a lot of coaches, but I've never seen ANYONE work so relentlessly.  Just another reason why he was born to coach UK.

Marreese Speights, Jordan Crawford and Indiana

Former Florida Gator Marreese Speights will not be returning to Gainesville.  He has informed Billy Donovan that he is going to keep his name in the draft, which is evidently a no-turning-back decision.  I don't think Donovan will have any trouble replacing Speights' 14.5 points and 8 rebounds per game, though.  He has three big men coming in, one of which is Kenny Kadji , a very highly rated prospect.  Speights perfomed well in SEC play last year, but I don't foresee Florida missing a beat.

Jordan Crawford , who recently announced he was transferring from Indiana (last person out of Bloomington turn off the lights), has evidently been playing in pick-up games with players from Detroit Mercy.  I don't necessarily think that means Crawford will be attending Mercy, but it is an interesting development. 

What I fail to comprehend is why so many players are leaving IU.  I would have thought that the Indiana players would welcome with open arms an excellent coach with a proven track record, and by all acounts, a popular coach  among his players.  I realize there will be some less accepting of a coaching change, but nearly every player on IU's roster, as well as most of the commitments, have decided to hoop it up elsewhere. 

I have no love for Indiana, but I'm still perplexed.  Perhaps the previously skewered Kelvin Sampson ran a program akin to the Bobby Petrino style; very little player accountability, with the occassional slap on the wrist.  Perhaps the players were told that Tom Crean actually demanded that they go to class and behave themselves, both on and off the court.  Or is it possible that the players have fled because they expect IU to be severely punished by the NCAA, and don't want to stick around to find out?  I suppose both theories are plausible, but we'll probably never know.

Thanks for reading, and Go 'Cats!

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From What I Understand

Crean is a very difficult coach to play for and to work with (pardon my grammar).

That’s his reputation among some AD’s (I know 2 of them) in the Big 10. Take it FWIW.

Crawford may very well end up at Detroit Mercy. Former IU assistant Ray McCallum is the head coach there.

by FortyYearCatFan on Jun 13, 2008 7:00 AM EDT reply actions  

I don't doubt that Crean is demanding ...

... but being demanding and a popular coach many times goes hand in hand.

That would lend credence to one of my theories that some of the players left because Crean expects his players to practice hard and perform in the classroom.

by Ken Howlett on Jun 13, 2008 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Forgot To Add This

I’d like to see UK get involved in NYC recruiting.

Mashburn, Riddick, Evans, and Alleyne are the 4 most recent NYC recruits at UK.

by FortyYearCatFan on Jun 13, 2008 7:09 AM EDT reply actions  

I agree ...

... it is almost like we have left the Big Apple for Pitino to play in all by himself.

Some of our most important players have come from the NYC area, particularly during the Pitino era. We need to re-establish a presence there.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Glenn Logan on Jun 13, 2008 7:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

Why doesn't...

Bradley count on the list of NYC recruits?

by StillCatwoman on Jun 13, 2008 9:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

NY recruits

I think he should. A list of all UK’s NY recruits from Jon Scott’s indispensable UK stats basketball page.

Two months (!). Two weeks. Two pencils.

by Thomas Hunt Morgan on Jun 13, 2008 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe, Maybe Not

UK recruited him from a prep school in Florida but he is NYC native.

Scott Rigot scouted him and brought him to UK’s attention in summer of 2003.

by FortyYearCatFan on Jun 13, 2008 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Indiana ...

... got rid of a couple of their players themselves. Defections often (but by no means always) happen during a coaching change. It is a little surprising that they have managed to run off or lose every single returning player except one, but not really as shocking as some seem to think.

It will take him a few years, but I think Creen will rebuild them. They have all the support from the fans and alumni that any school could want. They will be fine, probably sooner than any of us think.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Glenn Logan on Jun 13, 2008 7:40 AM EDT reply actions  

Re: Tru

I just cannot believe ALL of the IU’s players left ( or at least it seems like all). I realize Crean may have run off Bassett and Thomas (?) but the rest, along with the commitments left of their own choosing, as far as I know.

I’ve never seen such defections related to a coaching change.

I have no doubt Crean will have IU humming along within a couple of years, but it’s going to be a painful couple of years for the Hoosier set.

by Ken Howlett on Jun 13, 2008 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Four dismissals, two transfers

Crean upheld the dismissals of Bassett and Ellis, and dismissed Brandon McGee and Deandre Thomas himself. Eli Holman transferred amid whisperings and allegations of tampering by Ray McCallum, and now Crawford has decided to transfer.

So really only two are defections.

And Crean did not lose most of the committed recruits. He lost two from Sampson’s four-man 2008 class, and kept Sampson sole committed 2008 recruit.

by tacojohn on Jun 15, 2008 9:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

IU Returns 2 Players From 2008 Team

1 on scholarship, 1 walk-on. There are 5 or 6 recruits coming in next fall. It will be a bare roster like UK in 1990 but with much less talent than the 90 Cats had.

by FortyYearCatFan on Jun 15, 2008 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

Welcome, tacojohn ...

... You have a fine website at Cannot Falter. I have been there several times lately. Very impressive. You are doing a great job covering the NCAA investigation.

As I say, I think IU will be fine in a few years. The fan support is great, the school tradition is one of the very best, and Crean is smack dab in the middle of one of the finest recruiting bases in all of college basketball.

Thanks for stopping by and offering a comment, you are certainly welcome here.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Glenn Logan on Jun 15, 2008 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks for the encouragement

Always good to hear feedback like that when you’re just starting out.

by tacojohn on Jun 15, 2008 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

Perspective

My point was that I am surprised that the players who left, including Bassett and Ellis, were not more open to playing for IU and Crean. The Bassett and Ellis situation could have been resolved if the players had been more amenable to the change, I feel. By your list, 7 players have left. Quite a large number, regardless of the reasons.

Losing 50% of the recruiting class, after losing 7 players, is a huge number in my opinion.

But as has been noted, I’m sure Crean will have IU back where they belong in a very short period of time.

by Ken Howlett on Jun 15, 2008 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's hard to say who wanted to play or not

In an event in late May or early June, Crean called some of their grades “unsalvageable.” Bassett and Ellis were vocal about wanting to stay. But while it was reported that Crean met with Bassett, we never heard anything about him meeting with Ellis. Thomas appeared to be trying, meeting with Crean, working out, but was dismissed anyway.

McGee is a little different. We heard nothing about him, but Crean said that despite working with his family, he wasn’t doing what he was told.

I guess my point is that when a player leaves, it’s a two-way street. Very rarely does a player really want to stay, and do everything they can, and very rarely does a coach really want a player but ends up dismissing them. And in this case, because of the academic disaster at the end of the season, I think for some of the players it really didn’t matter whether they wanted to be on Crean’s team or not.

by tacojohn on Jun 15, 2008 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sampson

The fact that Crean called Bassett’s and Ellis’ grades “unsalvageable” makes me think that they weren’t being made to go to class or study hall by Sampson.

That type behavior by the players falls in line with one of my theories that Sampson allowed the players to run roughshod; no accountability, no consequences. I don’t claim to know what happened, but something very obviously isn’t right. There have been litererally hundreds of coaching changes over the last 20-25 years, and I can’t recall such a low player retention rate, ever.

Whether these guys wanted to play for Crean or not, is not my point. It’s simply that something has happened in Bloomington out of the ordinary. I’m not condemning IU, or Crean or anyone, other than Sampson and Greenspan.

I merely theorized. And I’ll stick with my two stated theories from my above post.

And I really do hope that Crean ( although I do not like him) will get the job done at IU. The IU v. UK rivalry should be one of the best in all of college basketball. Unlike our disadvantaged rivals to our west, I hope Indiana does well (especially versus the vile Izzo), except against UK.

by Ken Howlett on Jun 17, 2008 12:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

Mashburn

Was the first name that came to my mind. I know he was a Pitino boy… but if Gillispie could foster a good relationship there and use some of his connections in the big city, that would be a huge boost.

I’ll admit, this news does surprise me. I became accustomed to Pitino’s north-east pipeline (beneficial that none of the NYC schools are good anymore) for recruiting and Tubby certainly had good in-roads on the west coast (it certainly helped that UCLA was down during those years); I had just assumed that the majority of Coach Gillispie’s recruiting pipeline would be the mid-west and south-east. Its nice to see that he’s trying to open up Kentucky’s influence in other places as well. With UCLA gobbling up every player with a view of the Pacific Ocean now (see: Love, Kevin) it may be a while before he can return to those places, but getting back into the northeast would be a great move for Kentucky.

Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."

by chirop1 on Jun 13, 2008 7:41 AM EDT reply actions  

Number of Commitments

Your right we do have a lot and seems like we have a lot of offers out for next year as well. I was hopeing you were going to explain how many recruits we are actually going to be able to absorb next year. But you went in the “Don’t think Coach is done because he’s a hustler” direction.

by Slim Wagers on Jun 13, 2008 8:40 AM EDT reply actions  

Re: Slim

Jared Carter is the only senior. The big question is whether Patterson will stay or go.

Gillispie has commitments from Jon Hood and GJ Vilarino.

I have never worried, or thought too much about the numbers, because they always work themselves out ( sometimes with a little nudge from the coach ).

by Ken Howlett on Jun 13, 2008 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Coach Knows

I think Patterson leaves. This week saw him projected as the 13th pick next year. Regardless, we got offers out all over the place. I know these things can be managed to some degree and how can you not trust BCG but it seems like we are talking to every top candidate that will listen to us. From a fan standpoint we have no frame of referance for this approach to recruiting. Its exciting but I’m not smart enough to figure out how it is all gonna fit.

by Slim Wagers on Jun 13, 2008 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think

Patterson stays. I know all the odds point to him leaving, but I cant help but feel like there is something different about P-Pat – something special, something that makes him unlike “other players.” Patterson has what it takes – thats for sure – but I think that there is a huge amount of loyalty that he possesses to his mom, his coach, his teammates, his fans, and MOST importantly HIMSELF. I dont think Patterson leaves without a degree.

by kentuckygirl0724 on Jun 13, 2008 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Senior Day 08

It would be difficult to turn down a first round spot but I hope your right.
Remember how after the game BCG had 3 players join him and speak to the crowd, Bradley, Crawford and Pat. Maybe it was because Pat was done for the year and Coach wanted the crowd to be able to recognize him for the year he had but maybe he wanted to plant that seed and let Pat feel what it would be like to have his own Sr. Day.

by Slim Wagers on Jun 13, 2008 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

I remember the end of senior night too

- and at the time I was convinced that P-Pat speaking meant P-Pat leaving – but obviously he is staying for at least 1 more year. Maybe at the time BCG thought P-Pat might leave, but I would like to believe your last theory.

How is he doing academically, does anyone really know? I have strong memories of his family talking about how it important it was he graduate – does anyone think he may try to graduate in 3 years? Talk about graduating usually doesn’t hold much water in the end though, but you never know.

Moreover, almost every year at least one player passes up being a top10 pick for one more year at college (esp. if his team has a title shot). With a killer 2009 recruiting class and P-Pat as a Jr., perhaps a run to the FF that year may entice him to come back as a senior and win it all – DREAMING I KNOW – but I feel like at UK we should be able to dream a little.

Quick question – when (if it happens) are they projecting that the NBA begin enforcing the two-year wait rule for the draft? The year it is enforced will likely be a very weak draft year (because all of the great players that would have finished their soph year that year will likely make the jumps as frosh the year before (just because they can) resulting in the following draft class weak (with no great sophs available anymore and all of the new great frosh now stuck in the NCAA for one more year) – if I was a prospect I would have my eye on that draft seeing it as a smart financial move.

waiting on a new banner being raised into the rafters of Rupp..........

by cdnWildcatfan on Jun 13, 2008 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

His Parents

Told me in early March (at UK vs USC game in Columbia SC) that PP would be at UK 4 years. But that was before his late season injury that MAY change their minds?

by FortyYearCatFan on Jun 13, 2008 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Speights

Thanks for the kind words, Tru, but I dunno… I do think we’ll probably miss at least a half-beat. Speights would have been a world class center this year, and backing him up is the skinny Alex Tyus. The frosh bigs coming in will be good in time but maybe not this season.

A lot of these players came in with no experience as frosh last year and showed a lot of promise, so I’m hopeful the guard play and overall team cohesion will be much better now that they’re sophs. It might help compensate for the loss of Speights.

Orange and Blue Hue: The World through GATOR-colored Glasses -- http://www.orangeandbluehue.com

by Gatorpilot on Jun 13, 2008 8:59 AM EDT reply actions  

Well ...

... it was Ken’s post, and I don’t really agree with him. I don’t think Kadji can step in and replace Speights. Kadji will be a very good player and in a year or two, could be a real force. But from what I have seen, he is not ready to be a plug-and-play replacement for Speights.

Speights also had the benefit of learning against two of the best bigs to play in the SEC in some time in Horford and Noah. Playing against guys like that in practice will definitely accelerate your development. Kadji will not have a continuation of that process, and that will likely slow his development at least a little.

I think your analysis is right on, GP.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Glenn Logan on Jun 13, 2008 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

Agree

Whoops, you’re right, that was Ken.

We are in agreement on this. Not sure what 09 will bring for my Gators.

Orange and Blue Hue: The World through GATOR-colored Glasses -- http://www.orangeandbluehue.com

by Gatorpilot on Jun 13, 2008 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Tru and Gatorpilot

I think between the two major big man recruits (Kadji and Eloy Vargas) that by mid-season Florida will not be missing Speights too much. I’m sure there will be an adjustment period as with any freshman, but in the end I feel Kadji and Vargas will make up for the Speights loss.

Just one lonely UK fans opinion.

by Ken Howlett on Jun 13, 2008 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Daniel Orton, Lance Stephenson, John Wall

If Gillispie could miraculously pull in 2 out of 3 of these top 2009 guys which all have us high on their lists you could go ahead and start hanging the banners for 2010 or 2011.

UK has the greatest fans in the world!

by GoCats on Jun 13, 2008 12:18 PM EDT reply actions  

Wall To Memphis (I Think)

I don’t have a feeling on the other 2.

by FortyYearCatFan on Jun 13, 2008 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

indiana , cream, crawford

indiana, is a rich school of tradition of basketball, like all the other big name schools. Mr. Greenspan, and all compilance personal that monitor the basketball program, should be fired, just like Sampson. Yes indiana will go thru some hard season, but it is indiana, and like all great program, they will be back, someday. Cream, did the right thing in getting rid of player that don’t go to class, and don’t respect the coachs, and remembering the name on the jersey they wear. Crawford is a really good player, he would had been in the spotlight this year, and i too think he will in up at mercy, with Coach ray, but one would have to think, the ncaa would then look at Coach Ray, assit. under Coach Sampson, isn’t it funny that not one but two former hoosier are on this team. Crawford will do great , anywhere.

by truefanofbasketball on Jun 14, 2008 12:05 AM EDT reply actions  

Greenspan

In my opinion, Greenspan has lasted this long because of his track record in athletic administration. He has a very impressive resume.

Taking that into considering, his termination would still certainly be understandable. The fact that Sampson had the NCAA up his nose when he took the IU job, makes me question Greenspan’s decision-making process. I don’t know how much sway ex-IU basketball players have in Bloomington, but I know some of them are very unhappy with Greenspan, and wish he had left with Sampson.

by Ken Howlett on Jun 14, 2008 12:59 AM EDT reply actions  

Greenspan Will Go If NCAA Sanctions Are Tough

My guess, anyway.

I visited the Minnesota AD this week on a business trip. He didn’t know or offer an opinion.

by FortyYearCatFan on Jun 14, 2008 8:26 AM EDT reply actions  

I feel much better now

“Billy Gillispie roaming around NYC has to be a frightening thought for Carolina, Duke, and UConn, much less Gillispie’s good friend Norm Roberts who coaches St. Johns. Our friend down Interstate 64 might be relegated to playing second fiddle to Billy, not only in Kentucky, but also New York. Ouch, that stings! ”
The above makes me feel much better about the recruiting at Kentucky. Billy making all these inroads in the New York City area will surely put the fear in Tricky Ricky. And also those programs at the other mentioned schools. When do we expect to sign this young man?
I’m glad to see we don’t have to pick all our recruits out of junior colleges and aau camps.
Go Wildcats!
Oh, he just mentioned looking at UK? I’m sure once he sees the program in its present state and the work ethic of the coaches he will pick up over the others.

by Paris on Jun 14, 2008 6:55 PM EDT reply actions  

Since Then, The Player's Father

Has said that UK is not in his final 3 schools. The player stated otherwise. We’ll C.

UK signed 2 junior college players this spring. I see little wrong with that. Gillispie was very dependent on JuCo recruits (and successful) at TAMU and UTEP.

by FortyYearCatFan on Jun 14, 2008 9:01 PM EDT reply actions  

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