Reflections on recent defections from Kentucky
This morning (well, afternoon if you are reading this on the mainland) I came across this article by Kenny Colston of UK Wildcat Country. Kenny observes that there have now been three transfers out of UK men's basketball this year and rumors of several others, and wonders about it:
But is Billy Gillispie that big of a transition? I guess so. At least Gillispie recruits well enough for the fanbase not to miss these guys. It's still interesting how many players are looking to get out of Lexington.
Now, knowing UK fans as I do, I know some readers out there are going to want to take umbrage with what Kenny wrote, but before you do, read on while I discuss this a bit more.
From observing Gillispie over this year, I have come to some conclusions about him, as most of us have. Gillispie is not a "father figure" coach like Tubby Smith was. My perception is that he runs his program in a way that is less about mentoring, encouragement and family, and more about requiring immediate acceptance of the responsibility of being on arguably the most storied college basketball team in the nation. I am not picking on Smith here -- his approach worked. We won lots of games and a national championship under Tubby Smith, and that is success by any definition. But UK fans wanted a change and so did Smith, and both factors contributed to a new coach and a new system here at UK.
Gillispie is apparently an extremely demanding coach, and does not accept the excuses young men are wont to give about failure to live up to their responsibility. He doesn't want to hear about their knee scrapes, bruises, strains and pains -- that is a problem for them to deal with on their time. What he apparently demands is attention to detail and acceptance of the full measure of personal responsibility and accountability that must be the stock-in-trade of any team hoping to contend for the national championship. He wants results, not excuses, and gives playing time to those who produce -- particularly during the tough practices when nobody is cheering. Those with the discipline and toughness to check their ego and give their body and soul to basketball every day when they are on the floor, and take care of business in the classroom first when they aren't, are the players that he loves.
But lack toughness, or commitment, or slack in class, and Gillispie is not going to like you. He is going to be very hard on you and spare no aspect of your personality. He is going to mentor with the rod, harsh language and stern remediation. He is going to use a lot of stick and a little carrot to get you in line just as a drill sergeant will in the military to deliver the discipline necessary for a team to function at a high level. Then, he is going to demand even more, ever more. For those who would reach the top have to be driven out of their comfort zone to get there. Just as God drove Moses ever onward through the desert of Sinai, Gillispie drives his players through the desolation of mediocrity and selfishness.
So let's deal with the transfers. Alex Legion was clearly not a fit for Gillispie. Legion is a very smart young man, and probably thought he was smarter than Coach Gillispie. That is always a recipe for transfer, and my feeling is that the "leave it all out there every day" approach just wasn't what Legion was looking for in a coach. Bad fit, now fixed.
Derrick Jasper looks to me like the kind of player who has a bit of a sensitive side. There is nothing wrong with this, but being sensitive around Gillispie is just going to be hard. Gillispie wears more emotion on his sleeve than any of us would have imagined, but it seems clear that he leaves all that aside when it comes time to lace them up and play the game. His practices are famously brutal, to the point Jerry Tipton apparently thinks that they were a significant contributor to injury this year. But wherever you shake out on that question, it's clear that Gillispie needs players who will play through every ounce of pain that does not put them at risk for injury. It seems to me that Jasper was only willing to do so much of that.
It also seems clear that Jasper has been wanting to move closer to home for a long time, and his injury and surgery recovery provided the perfect excuse. I'm sure Gillispie tried to get him to stay, but I'm equally sure that sitting out next year at UK was not part of the equation. Jasper was a great kid, but Gillispie is about winning championships, and that demands that players play. So if Jasper wanted a year off to heal, UK just wasn't in the equation any longer.
Morikenyo Williams was just a different story. Smith took a flyer on Williams when he recruited him, and Big Mike just didn't work out. We have had no shortage of ponderous big guys at Kentucky, and Williams skill set was just not a good match for the kind of basketball Gillispie wants to play. Hence, his desire to transfer, which has been known for several months now. All that was missing was the destination, and now he is reunited with former UK assistant Scott Rigot at Duquesne.
So are the transfers a sign of problems? Well, I recall many in the Big Blue Nation pointing to transfers during the Smith era as a clear indicator of a problem, so if we apply that standard, perhaps so. But I don't think so. I think you will see two to three transfers per year out of Gillispie's program, and if you will notice his continued intense recruiting even though his scholarships are almost all gone, you can see that he apparently expects to have to deal with transfers every year. We see it from all the big-time programs, and UK is no exception.
So in sum, I don't think the transfers are a problem, and didn't when Smith was in charge. In fact, I think they are actually a sign of a healthy program and a coach doing a good job. If players are not a fit here, there is no reason why they should be forced to suffer through four years of a demanding coach and system, and it is certainly better for the team if they can offer a scholarship to a player who is hopefully a better fit.
We wish all our recent transfers well, but I think a case can be made in every case that both UK and those who transfer will be better off in the end.
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32 comments
Comments
Question
Doesn’t having players transfer out hurt our Academic ratings?
by Clandestine on Jun 10, 2008 4:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Coach...
I, personally, have no problem with his drill sergeant attitude. Any young man who has served in the military will tell you that their first 6 weeks was TOUGH! I am sure you know that serving in the Navy and so does my son (Navy) and stepson (Marines). It is a way to weed out the good from the bad. They both made it but and served what time they signed.
I like Coach’s style…it will make you mature and make you a better player.
But just think about all the young kids out there today that are so spoiled with their cell phones, computers, Ipods, and whatever else their parents do for them. They have no idea what hard work and life is all about. Just in MHO.
by kykat51 on Jun 10, 2008 5:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
On my Iphone
I am typing this reply on my iPhone. I don’t see anything wrong with nice things but people and kids in particular should know that you have to work for nice things. The same principle can be used for UK basketball.
by KingKentucky on Jun 10, 2008 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You earned your privilege
to have an Iphone. I presume you are an adult. I agree about earning the privilege to be a star athlete at the U of K also… it takes a lot of work both on and off the court.
Go Cats!
by kykat51 on Jun 10, 2008 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it not fair to count transfers of players that were recruited by Coach Smith and see how many transfers occur from players originally recruited by Coach Gillispie. So far only one, ie ALex Legion, and as we know he was a last minute find during a time when Coach G didn’t have a lot of choices for top level recruits.
by gright on Jun 10, 2008 5:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
UK Transfers
UK has AVERAGED 25% to 30% transfers under Hall, Sutton, Pitino, and Tubby. I expect similar % under Gillispie.
Rupp had a high % of transfers, too. But they left as freshmen (mostly). He had fewer transfers from his varsity teams (soph, junior, or senior) but still averaged 1 per year his last 30 seasons at UK.
Transfers hurt but don’t ruin the APR score. You lose 1 point out of 4 possible for a transfer.
by FortyYearCatFan on Jun 10, 2008 6:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Transfers
I dont think the article really looks at the issue in depth and Im not sure I care with the exception of Jasper anyway.
Coury is reported to be tranferring for academic rather than basketball reasons and I believe it. Basketball is obviously not going to be his full time job.
Meeks had a rough season and I think much of his unahappines/reported desire to transfer had a lot to do with that. I think it would be more telling if he had been healthy and productive and still whispering about transferring.
Carter wouldnt be getting any pt under Tubby at this point either and I think he should be lookinig elsewhere when he isnt. People whisper about a lot of these players transferring because they want them gone and the others because they are afraid they will leave. i dont think there is a lot of credence to many of these transfer rumors.
DEEETROIT BASKETBALLL!!!
by davw83 on Jun 10, 2008 7:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Everyone has transfers
There have been transfers from everywhere this year just like every other year. Duke, UNC, UCONN, and of course Indiana have all had high profile transfers this year. Indiana is different than us but it is normal during a coaching change to get transfers.
I respect all UK players but as long as we get a point guard(hopefully Liggins) we will be fine without Williams, Coury, Jasper next year.
Honestly, if no one told us Williams left the team, would we have noticed next year?
UK has the greatest fans in the world!
by GoCats on Jun 10, 2008 7:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Isn't this what we wanted....
a coach who wouldn’t put up with mediocrity/? A coach that expected… no DEMANDED the absolute best out of each and every player, every single time they put on the Blue and White, game or practice. Weren’t we the ones who were complaining that we had no talent on the bench? Didn’t we say that it would be 3-4 years before the G-dog could get good talent on the bench, because he didn’t have any schollies available?
I’m thinking that BG is weeding out the trash and reloading way before anyone thought he could. Yeah, that is a fine line to walk with letting players go and maybe even helping them out the door. However, I haven’t heard a single bad word out of these players that are leaving. I didn’t see a single player on the court or the bench looking disgusted last year. I can’t say that from any year of Tubby’s tenure.
Anyone ever heard this one – “If you can’t run with the BIG CATS, then stay on the porch!!”
Personally, I think that is the best thing that any coach could do for their players; expect them to perform to the best of their ability every time. I also believe that Gillespie asks no more and no less of his players than he asks of himself which is also a fair and just method.
I’m also just as sure that there are hundreds, if not thousands, of people out there that would say that he is being cruel to his players. Those same people are the ones that will call the players “kids” and say that he should be easier on them because they are so immature and lack life experience. Those people will also be the first ones to to expect stiff penalties when these “kids” get in trouble with drugs and other irresponsible collegiate type tomfoolery. My point is… I don’t know, but it’s a Da*x%x good one!
Three cheers for Gillespie and all other people in leadership roles that demand exceptional performance and personal responsibility in all that they control.
GO BIG BLUE!! Long Live Coach G (so long as he wears KY blue)!!!
by bluebloodtoo on Jun 11, 2008 1:01 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
UK Had Such A Coach
Rupp. Hall. Sutton. Pitino. Tubby. None “put up with mediocrity” at UK.
Sutton had the worst results. But his first 3 years (75-21) were comparable to Pitino’s first 6 years (150-43) in terms of W-L % and average record of 25-7 per season.
It’s baloney to say that any of those 5 UK coaches “put up with mediocrity” whereas Gillispie won’t.
Pure hogwash but to be expected from those who think that 1 NCAA title, 5 SEC titles, 5 SECT championships, 76% W-L record, and 72% in NCAA games is (somehow) mediocrity.
by FortyYearCatFan on Jun 11, 2008 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Come on dude...
can’t you read? I didn’t say that Tubby accepted mediocrity, nor did I say that anyone at UK has ever accepted mediocrity. The point of the comment was only that Billy G will not accept anything but each player’s max effort.
I’m a UK fan just like you, but that doesn’t mean that I will blindly agree with everything that happens with the team. What I did say about Tubby, was that his players often looked disinterested in the game. They played like they were disinterested, and almost always lacked that “competitive spark”. I have said many times that I think Tubby’s weak point is the psychological aspect of managing his players. I think Tubby’s understanding of and control of the game itself is what puts him in the discussion with some of the best coaches in the game. However, I’m not sure that I’ve ever heard about as much internal bickering between players as I did while Tubby was at the helm. If the boys aren’t one for all, then they’ll never be all for one.
GO BIG BLUE!! Long Live Coach G (so long as he wears KY blue)!!!
by bluebloodtoo on Jun 13, 2008 2:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Quoting You
“Isn’t this what we wanted…. a coach who wouldn’t put up with mediocrity?”
Wanted means you didn’t have it before. But none of the prior 5 UK coaches accepted mediocrity. Not even Eddie Sutton.
Notice I replied that 5 coaches (not just Tubby) didn’t accept mediocrity. UK won 79% of its games from 1931 through 2007. That’s HARDLY accepting mediocre results. Instead that’s the #1 record in college basketball over those 75+ years.
by FortyYearCatFan on Jun 13, 2008 7:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not necessarily
If bluebloodtoo will forgive me for putting words in his mouth, he could have meant that, following Coach Smith’s departure, we wanted a coach who wouldn’t put up with mediocrity because we’re accustomed to coaches that don’t put up with mediocrity. When we are without a coach, all the characteristics we are looking for are “wants.” That may not be what he meant at all, but try to give him the benefit of the doubt.
by Acdixon on Jun 13, 2008 9:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Strange Way To Say It Then
I interpret his words otherwise.
But no UK coach in my lifetime (1951 to present) has “put up with mediocrity” at all.
by FortyYearCatFan on Jun 13, 2008 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dude let it go
We know you like Tubby. We all agree with you. No one was attacking the man. Just about everything you post is about the Tubster. He’s gone and he isnt coming back.
DEEETROIT BASKETBALLL!!!
by davw83 on Jun 11, 2008 10:04 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
exactly
like pitino would say: “Tubby Smith is not walking through that door!”
GO BIG BLUE!! GO BIG BLUE!!
by UKWildCatFanatic on Jun 11, 2008 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nor Is Pitino, Hall, Rupp, Or Sutton
All 5 have > credentials than Gillispie right now. Someday, maybe not.
But 4 of them won NCAA titles. And the other had 800 career W. Gillispie looking up at them now.
We’ll C in 5 or 10 years.
by FortyYearCatFan on Jun 12, 2008 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bozich took a dig at Tubby
I was watching “The Sports Reporters” on Sunday and during the discussion on the Celtics role-players, Rondo’s name came up. Rick Bozich was on the panel and I didn’t catch exactly what he said, but it was something along the lines of “Tubby Smith tried to sit him behind Brandon Stockton at Kentucky.” The rest of the commentators just went on with their discussion as if he hadn’t said anything. Clearly, no one else cared or thought the comment was relevant.
Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."
by chirop1 on Jun 11, 2008 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Haha
Or they just didn’t know who Brandon Stockton was, so they dismissed it.
by UK Wildcat Country on Jun 11, 2008 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Got Rondo's Attention
Obviously RR >>> Brandon Stockton. But wasn’t playing like it for a brief stretch in 2006 season.
by FortyYearCatFan on Jun 12, 2008 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
At this point...
I am sick of even hearing anything about Tubby
by kentuckygirl0724 on Jun 11, 2008 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Talked To Him Yesterday In Twin Cities
He and Donna are happy as can be. He thinks Gillispie will do very well at UK.
by FortyYearCatFan on Jun 12, 2008 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually I Prefer Facts
No UK coach since the 1920’s accepted mediocrity or anything close to it.
by FortyYearCatFan on Jun 12, 2008 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Alex Legion was a head case
I can’t lay any blame on Billy G for that one. The other guys were Tubby recruits. Any time you have a change of coaching staff, there will be turnover. No fault of Tubby or Billy G.
by btcoop71 on Jun 11, 2008 10:42 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
They Come And They Go
Mediocre players come and they go. (See Todd Svoboda, Chuck Aleksinas and Corey Sears, possibly insert “The Hands of Stone” here)
Good players come and they go. (See Michael Bradley and Mark Pope)
Even great players come and go. If they didn’t, we never would have had Kyle, or Derek.
Players have left other high profile teams for years. It happens all the time, everywhere. It’s a small part of the big picture, that we tend to forget about.
As has been previously stated, transfers are usually a good thing, and we have to believe that will be the case this time. We had no depth. BCG had no confidence in anyone on the bench. He obviously is bringing in guys that he believes will be contributors. If the ones that he had no confidence in leave, I’m all for it. They won’t help us on the bench. Sure I’ll miss Jasper. I missed Bradley when he left. We are still the University of Kentucky Wildcats! It will be okay. And sooner or later, hopefully sooner, it will be great!
by racercat98 on Jun 11, 2008 12:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Learning to make choices
Sometimes kids just change their minds. I started at UK and stayed 3 weeks. Then accepted at Savanna School of Design and didn’t go. Got accepted a t the Design Institute in ATL on scholarship and had bags packed when at the last second I went to a school for music and music production. Can you say FLAKE?
My point – 18 year olds sometimes just change their minds, goals and plans to best reach those. It will always happen and, no offense to younger friends here, the younger generation has a very high percentage of folks with work issues and common social graces. Not that I had them then but in a recent hiring phase I saw 20 people and only 3 looked me in the eye. Just because they play ball does not change some of these generational differences. I personally love them and embrace them but BCG may not.
Changing how you think will change what you think.
by wilson452 on Jun 11, 2008 11:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Great points
Sometimes we forget that these guys are kids who are subject to changing their minds on a whim.
Plus the fact that in today’s climate there might be a number of people attempting to steer the player in different directions. Decision-making becomes much more difficult when people one respects are giving one differing advice.
by Ken Howlett on Jun 12, 2008 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Risk means transfers
If you’re not having some transfers, you’re not taking enough risks. There are the Jason Parkers and Rashaad Carruths of the world, and yes, even Pilgrims who have a whole load of talent but maybe some attitude problems. Sometimes you fix them, sometimes you don’t.
There are even players with less potential that sometimes turn out to be greats (the undersized Chuck Hayes) or don’t (Bernard Cote). So you take some chances on these guys too. There’s always some risk.
Sometimes you have a guy transfer and bloom elsewhere (Michael Bradley at Villanova) and you hate to see these guys go, but it happens.
by EEWildcat on Jun 12, 2008 11:00 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think that's right.
I also think that coaches who play players who earn it in practice naturally see a lot of transfers. Tubby Smith was that way, and would often sit talented players who weren’t getting it done in practice. Gillispie seems even more that way, frequently just refusing to play a player who wasn’t giving it all in practice.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Truzenzuzex on Jun 12, 2008 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Joe Hall And Adolph Rupp Likewise
Rupp often lost half (or more) his freshmen teams before they ever got to varsity play. He lost his share of varsity players, too.
Hall lost 2/3 of his first recruiting class (1972) and 1/2 (3 of 6) in his second class (1973). He lost 1 player (of 5) from 74 class, 3 (of 5) from 75 recruits, and 1 (of 3) from 76 class. Then 2/3 of 1977 and 78 classes for total loss of 16 players in his first 7 classes at UK.
by FortyYearCatFan on Jun 12, 2008 10:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

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