A cornucopia of hypocrisy, psychobabble, and just plain ignorance

by Truzenzuzex on May 13, 2008 3:29 PM EDT in Media Comment 38 comments

Well. It's been about a week or so since Michael Avery committed to Kentucky and the whole firestorm about early recruiting consumed the media. I can tell this story is finally starting to lose steam, because most of the opinion pieces on it today are laughable, some of them hilariously so. Some writers, and one academic, are trying so hard to come up with new and creative reasons to scold early commitments and the coaches who accept them that they are in serious danger of becoming self-parodies.

Case study #1 -- Bob Hill of the Louisville Courier-Journal. His was so easy it didn't even merit a front-page comment, just this FanPost. I won't flatter it by adding anything here.

Case study #2 -- the Fayetteville Observer. That's right, brothers and sisters of the Big Blue Nation, one of Tobacco Road's finest decided to smite the Philistines of Kentucky with righteous haughty outrage:

Perhaps even more ridiculous is Kentucky coach Billy Gillispie’s eagerness to accept such an early commitment. It’s not like Kentucky is some hungry mid-major that needs to get in early — and here we’re talking really early — on top prospects to make its mark.

We can be certain that in the summer of 2010, there will be dozens of talented Class of 2012 prospects wanting to play for the Wildcats. So why not wait and see who’s the best of the litter then?

I'm sure the author would agree with me that one should make sure his own house is in order before pointing to a mess in his neighbor's, especially if he wants to be taken seriously. I wonder if the writer of this sanctimonious little screed knows that both of Gillispie's commitments are 15 years old? I wonder if he further knows that North Carolina's Roy Williams accepted a commitment from Kendall Marshall, who was a whopping 15 years old at the time, just last year? I'm thinking not.

Case study #3 -- The Herald-Leader. Our favorite (oh, stop, you know you love it!) newspaper decided to get on it's high horse today, as it and it's competitor in Louisville are often wont to do, and chastise the University of Kentucky for not paying enough attention to academics. How did it make this case again, for the 500,000th time? How about this:

Closer to home, University of Kentucky basketball coach Billy Gillispie has reached agreements to play at Kentucky with two boys -- an eighth-grader and a ninth-grader. One of them did not know where he was going to high school until last week. UK also has made a scholarship offer to another ninth-grader.

UK President Lee T. Todd Jr. initially seemed shocked that Gillispie was going after such young players but within a week had come around so completely that he spent a half-hour recruiting the ninth-grader.

So how did the LHL use this little anecdote as evidence that UK is not paying enough attention to academics? I'm not sure. The entire opinion piece makes no sense at all to me. It reads like someone intended to make a point about something, forgot what it was, and just writes a conclusion at the end that has no relationship to the dialog. I think this is a new theory about writing opinion pieces -- if nobody can follow your point, they can't say you are full of it.

Case study #4 -- Miles Brand, NCAA President. Via a Jerry Tipton article (oh, no -- did I say "Jerry Tipton?"), Miles decides he hates the whole early recruiting thing and thinks it ignores academics. Well, at least now we know where the authors of the opinion piece above got the idea from.

Brand welcomed the National Association of Basketball Coaches' look into the propriety of its members recruiting middle-schoolers. "Whether it's professional behavior or not," Brand said, before adding, "and that seems appropriate."

The NCAA will not seek to pass legislation to ban such commitments. Instead, Brand said, the NCAA will look to create an atmosphere that inhibits the offering of scholarships to prospects so young. He called for a reform of the "pre-collegiate environment" with the help of such entities as the NBA, high school federations, USA Basketball, the NABC and shoe companies. "Make it less unsavory," he said.

Just exactly what in the name of James Naismith is this psychobabble supposed to mean? My goodness, if you are going to say something is bad, how hard is it just to ban the practice? God knows, the academics that make up the NCAA's governing body won't require much of a shove.

But nooooo. Instead, Brand "welcome[s]" the NABC's "look" into the propriety of it's members. This is absolutely cowardly, Dr. Brand, and just reinforces why the NCAA is the brunt of jokes around the sporting community. Why wait for coaches to examine the issue? Is it bad or isn't it? As to the pre-collegiate environment, the NCAA is largely responsible for that abomination with their shoe-company money grubbing on one hand and their pious pronouncements on the other. Once again, the old proverb "Better to be silent and thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt" would seem to apply.

I give up. Nobody wants to take anything like the lead on the young recruitment issue. Instead, everyone wants to pass the buck while condemning the practice, and then only as long as their ox isn't the one being gored. Does this remind you of anything? Congress, perhaps?

That's probably the next stop for all this, and why not? If you can accuse the BCS of violating anti-trust law, almost anything is possible.

Storyend_dingbat_medium

UPDATE 05/14 7:38: It's easy to be a critic, but part of that is noting when journalists write really good and thoughtful commentary. This article by the Bellevue (Washington) Reporter is such a piece. More, please.

5 recs | Comment 38 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Sometimes

people just like to talk to hear themselves. These are fine examples of people trying to jump onboard a “hot topic” and attempt to offer up some new insight which most often results in either babbling of non-sense or a poor attempt of a disguised rephrase of something they have heard someone else say. (Not to mention the fact that they are just a little late on the whole thing as well.)

by kentuckygirl0724 on May 13, 2008 3:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I heard

that Gillispie offers kids this young solely to make baby Jesus cry, which, quite obviously, negatively affects UK’s academics.

The logic is impeccable.

by piketaylor on May 13, 2008 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Stupid broken SBNation 2.0!

Why can’t I recommend this article more than once! It deserves at least 15 recs, just from me.

The Online Home of the Big Blue Nation...

by TheFakeGimelMartinez on May 13, 2008 4:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

if they are not talking about you...

then you don’t exist. Remember when we lost to San Diego in December and no one even mentioned it nationally? We were old news after Gardner-Webb, Houston, UAB, San Diego was not the big of a deal so no one reported on it.
We are again making news nationally and it is good publicity, not what Indiana is getting, not what USC is getting. Recruits are going to be lining up to get in on what Gillispie has got going on.
Exciting times are ahead for UK fans, we just have to be patient. The media will let this one go as soon as another story comes along. By that time these 9th graders will be ready to suit up for UK who just may be defending another title by then!
Stay positive UK fans(sorry I mentioned all of those early games!)

UK has the greatest fans in the world!

by GoCats on May 13, 2008 5:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

i was getting to post this same thought at the bottom...

I’m glad I re-read the comments. I completely agree with your statments. UK is no longer playing your grandparents basketball and the media isn’t treating it as such anymore either. Finally 14 and 15 year olds will know who we are again, like I knew who Travis Ford, Jamal Mashburn and the rest of the gang were. Granted, Pitino wasn’t knocking on my door, but Kenny Shields from NKU once did, does that count? Anyway, it’s good to be back in the news.

GO CATS

I need a Sea of Blue because I am surrounded by Tennessee orange!

by sleepytimetea on May 14, 2008 2:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

"Another story comes along"

Thank God for OJ Mayo!

I say that half jokingly, but you know that these stories are now linked. During a discussion this morning about USC and OJ Mayo, a half-hearted attempt to add in a talking point about the recruitment of 8th graders was thrown in. As people talk about the evils of recruiting, they are also mentioning the early recruitment as well.

The one thing that I hope really doesn’t happen is for any of this OJ Mayo talk to spill over onto PPat since they went to high school together. Part of me does wonder how long it’ll be before someone asks him questions about Mayo since he is the most high profile former high school teammate.

Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."

by chirop1 on May 13, 2008 5:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Not for sure

But I think Patrick and OJ weren’t extremely tight. Remember OJ transfered out and then back into Patterson’s HS. Also, remember this awesome Blue Goggles story about Patrick and his parents dealing with a team crisis before OJ returned to the team.

The Online Home of the Big Blue Nation...

by TheFakeGimelMartinez on May 13, 2008 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Academia is the home of mindless psychobabble, TBS

by Clandestine on May 13, 2008 5:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

They love the view...

..from their high horses.

"Never, never, never believe any war will be smooth and easy, or that anyone who embarks on the strange voyage can measure the tides and hurricanes he will encounter. The statesman who yields to war fever must realize that once the signal is given, he is no longer the master of policy but the slave of unforeseeable and uncontrollable events. " -- Sir Winston Churchill

by Crow on May 13, 2008 5:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Gillispie Gets Paid $2.3 Million To Decide Whom To Recruit

The Lex H-L charges 50 cents (or thereabouts) to read about it.

You get commensurate value for your investment in either.

by FortyYearCatFan on May 13, 2008 7:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

By big problem with pre-pubescent recruiting is its shallowness.

A commitment from an 8th-grader means as close to zip as you can get. There are a few “negative” scenarios that can happen:

A. If the kid decides to change his mind, he’s not only perfectly within his rights to do so, it’s hard to hold it against him because of his youth.

B. If the kid doesn’t develop as anticipated, you may have a program looking to break its commitment and find a better player. It’s technically just as kosher for the program to do as for the kid, but the PR on it is a lot worse.

C. If the kid doesn’t develop as anticipated, you have the other option of keeping the commitment and letting the kid sit on the bench for his entire academic career. Maybe he’ll play a bit part to spell a real starter, but it becomes a waste of a scholarship (speaking from ROI) for a major program.

D. Adding to that last point, you could have a chat with the kid, explain that he’ll never see any playing time, then hope he agrees to break the commitment. But then again, what did that early commitment mean if it has no holding power?

I’m guessing that you’ll feel that BCG will take option C if either kid doesn’t improve, and it seems the most likely. Yet the same fanbase that supports him so well will become the source of the greatest pressure to find a better solution. (Despite the classiness here, many fans are not willing to lower the odds of winning a few more games to maintain the moral high ground.) If one of these kids did flatline through H.S., I’m willing to bet that the Cats fanbase would – on the whole – be quite forgiving if that scholarship offer somehow found its way to some 5-star instead.

Now, whether this is ethical is for the NCAA to figure out. I just wanted to explain why I feel that this kind of commitment is the most hollow kind, no matter how well-intended and honorable the involved parties are.

by Hooper on May 13, 2008 7:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Fair ...

... but unfortunately, irrelevant. Here’s why:

Until “early commitments” prove that that it is too hard to accurately evaluate talent at that early age, people are going to take a chance on this. Gillispie isn’t just taking a chance, quite frankly he is hitching his wagon and his entire livelihood to this process. It is bold, it is somewhat innovative, and it is fraught with the very danger you so accurately describe.

We won’t know for several years how this will pan out, but we will get an inkling in 2009 when G.J. Villarino, another early (albeit a greybeard by comparison to Avery) commitment as a sophomore. If G.J. fares poorly, the Big Blue Nation will begin to sweat.

But for now, this is the wave of the future. Gillispie shows no signs of changing the practice, and in fact, seems very comfortable with it. Until that changes, nothing else will.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on May 13, 2008 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I initially misread your response and thought

that you said “fortunately, irrelevant”. I was all set to clarify myself, but I think we’re on the same page. I didn’t write that to suggest that such early recruiting should stop, but instead to state that it’s really silly to me.

Yes, this is the wave of the future. I didn’t mean this to be an objection – this is just what rankles me about it all. It’s simply another recruiting development; like Saban’s teleconferencing, everybody will continue to find new edges in the rules to gain traction. More so than football, talent can mean absolutely everything to a basketball team. Winning the recruiting war usually means you win the games. It’s also easier to spot that talent earlier in basketball, making it all the more attractive to recruit so early.

I don’t doubt that BCG will maintain his ethics with this, so I expect him to honor his commitment just like he says. That makes it potentially inequitable since it’s very difficult to expect a kid to uphold his end if he later thinks that UK isn’t the right place for him. (Fortunately, he probably wouldn’t have committed if he wasn’t a lifer.) But that’s not necessarily true across the board. There is a lot of room for these commitments to be redacted/ignored and it’ll happen. There’s simply nothing there to enforce these commitments, so they ring very hollow. Besides, would you really want to hold an 8th grader to his word if he decided he’d rather play somewhere else anyhow?

One last thing; there is an early instance of my point D. above: McElroy at Cincinnati. He’s just one point and nothing to hang statistics on, but he committed as a sophomore and never really developed afterward. After a chat, he decided it’d be better to play somewhere else than ride pine at Cincy. It was the right decision, and I’m happy that both sides reviewed the commit rather than insisting on keeping it. I would rather have a commitment withdrawn than a mistake enforced.

by Hooper on May 14, 2008 12:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Great points again ...

... and even more warningly, there are more data points than one available—for Kentucky fans, the most recent being Adam Williams, who committed to Tubby Smth as a sophomore and turned out not to have what it takes.

Obviously, with so many early commits, Gillispie is taking a real chance. You can afford one mistake, but three or four Adam Williams’ will surely place his career at Kentucky in grave jeopardy. Williams also came to the conclusion that moving on to another university was preferable to a semi-permanent seat on the Kentucky bench, but that always throws a monkey-wrench into your recruiting and usually forces a scramble for late talent, something most Kentucky fans really hate to see.

It may seem silly now, but if it works out, Gillispie will look very much like a genius in catching and exploiting such a trend. If it does not, he will look … well, foolish. Fortunately, and this is the reason it doesn’t concern me from an ethical standpoint, the whole early recruitment thing appears to contain almost no risk for the kids themselves, and possibly many benefits. We’ll just have to wait and see how that part works out.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on May 14, 2008 7:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Early commitments proving themselves

Until "early commitments" prove that that it is too hard to accurately evaluate talent at that early age

Interestingly, yesterday morning I caught a bit of an interview on Mike and Mike In The Morning with one of the big-wigs over at Scout.com (I think that’s where he’s from anyways) mainly regarding the OJ Mayo situation. He mentioned that making a relationship with these kids at a young age is desirable to agents because statistics have shown that if a player is ranked in the top 10 of his class at some point during high school, there is a 90% chance he’ll play in the NBA. I was stunned by that. But it certainly does make the argument that a kid like Zollo (ranked 8th IIRC) is a good risk.

Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."

by chirop1 on May 14, 2008 7:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Gillispie

BCG is playing the hand that he was dealt by coaching at UK and still being expected to bring in the talent to compete with UNC, UCLA, Duke, and Kansas.

UNC will in all likelihood pass UK in all time wins in the next two years. Kentucky does not have Michael Jordan and ESPN doing their recruiting for them. Kentucky does not have an ocean view and 340 days of sunshine a year. Kentucky has Billy Gillispie, and Billy Gillispie does not like to lose and you can believe he is going to do everything in his power to prevent UNC from passsing us on his watch.

So we can either continue to pick over what’s left or we can find a way to cut the deck in our favor by offering younger recruits and count upon their development while we use their names to attract more and more talent to our program.

Do not underestimate the power of already having names in your hand. I remember clearly Joe Crawford saying he as ready to commit to Kentucky earlier but that he did not want to be “the only guy down there” so he waited and then immediately committed after Rajon Rondo did.

by Crow on May 13, 2008 7:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Good point about "names in your hand," Crow.

The Online Home of the Big Blue Nation...

by TheFakeGimelMartinez on May 13, 2008 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

UNC Passed UK In The Early 1990's Too

But UK jumped back ahead in the mid 1990’s and remains ahead. UK gained 24 W on UNC from 1998 through 2007. (UK 263 W, UNC 239 W) I expect similar gains in the next 10 years, don’t you?

I know the Crawford story firsthand. Erik’s uncle was involved in his recruiting as a friend of the Crawfords from Detroit. Your position (he waited until Rondo committed) is utterly false.

by FortyYearCatFan on May 13, 2008 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not sure why you enjoy making absolute statements about things you can't possibly know of..

... that certainly.

But the fact is Crawford did say he wanted to commit to Kentucky earlier but that he didn’t want to be the only guy down here.

The fact is that he also committed right after Rajon Rondo did (same week if I recall correctly).

So while I may not be correct in Rondo being the impetus that finally led Crawford to commit, the two incidents can certainly at some level be considered related or at least shed a little light on the fact that players do like to know that other good players are going to be going to the same school they are.

Hench my original point that already having players in the fold helps you recruit other players stands unblemished by your puzzling need to throw around all these types of statements as I have noticed you have made similar absolute statements in at least two other threads on this blog.

by Crow on May 13, 2008 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

I Know His Mom And Dad

Erik’s uncle introduced me at the Purdue vs Michigan game in November 2003.

by FortyYearCatFan on May 14, 2008 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree

Nice post.

BCG would not have offer him a spot if he didn’t think he had enough potential to develop into a great college player—but as a bonus, this generates interest and national attention, and as you said “cuts the deck in our favor.” I don’t care what Duke Vitale said about us doing it only to make headlines, because I’ve written him off long ago. That simply isn’t the sole reason, but rather an added bonus.

by jug on May 13, 2008 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hey piketaylor

That comment you responded to from justin3008 was a spam post. I deleted the comment because I just figured out I could delete comments. In case you were wondering where your comment went…

The Online Home of the Big Blue Nation...

by TheFakeGimelMartinez on May 13, 2008 10:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Academic Standards

Whether a kid accepts a scholarship in the 3rd grade, 8th grade, or after HS graduation, he/she still has to meet both NCAA and university entrance requirements. (Consider the Liggins situation.)

University presidents and other academics who claim that early signings undermine academic standards apparently are ignorant of NCAA standards and perhaps of the entrance requirements of their own universities. It appears that they are reacting emotionally, not on the basis of a thorough analysis of the facts. They are speaking out based on an outmoded stereotype of the dumb athlete.

Back in the 1960s and 1970s - in the aftermath of racial desegregation - there was some evidence that a few coaches and some institutions of higher education were “exploiting” athletically gifted youngsters who were “victims of separate but equal schools.” Then the NCAA instituted the SAT/ACT standards.

It seems to me that in the past 30 years, high school coaches make damn sure that their best athletes take academics seriously. Coaches want their players to succeed at the next level.

The young kids that Billy has offered so far have parents who are college graduates and who are in professions that depend upon quality formal education. They are also smart enough to figure out that athletic ability has an expiration date. Maybe it’s at age 35, age 30, or age 19. Maybe it’s injury (Jasper, Meeks, Patterson, Sam Bowie, Junior Griffey). These educated parents - recognizing that a 4-year college scholarship these days is worth $50,000 to $150,000 - make an economic decision. They go for it. They hope Gillispie/UK will honor the commitment.

Gillispie says he wants to lock up kids before 3rd parties get involved. Either he finds it morally/ethically repulsive to deal with these third parties, or he can’t compete effectively with other coaches who do deal with these third parties. It seems to me that Coach Smith also had problems dealing with 3rd parties.

With regard to the program, it seems to me that Liggins qualifying and Jasper transferring are of more importance right now than whether some 15-year-old’s parent commits the kid to UK. I want to know for sure what players we are going to put on the floor for 2008-2009. We don’t know for sure whether Liggins will qualify or whether Jasper is transferring.

by Fortunatus on May 13, 2008 10:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Excellent Last paragraph

I have been thinking about that as well. My mind tends to get confused thinking about all the names associated with these early verbal commitments and who we might possibly be offering and who will be playing what positions in the classes of 2010, 2011, 2012 and so on. After a while the names and years all start to blend together.

I too am more interested in the immediate right here-and-now future of the basketball program. If BCG is unsuccessful in his last ditch effort to try and persuade Jasper to return to UK, will he be taking on more recruits for the 2008 season? And technically speaking, doesn’t this have to happen in the next week—by May 21?? I love the suspense, but honestly, patience in not one of my best attributes.

by BigSkyCat on May 13, 2008 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Next season

You’re right, we do seem to be overlooking next season in favor of the future of the program. Not necessarily a bad thing, since the future seems bright, but I am curious to know what to expect come this winter.

by jug on May 14, 2008 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Great comment.

Well done.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on May 13, 2008 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes.

I believe people seem to forget that these commitments do have to meet the academic standards.

You could also make the argument that this would actually keep kids doing well in HS, by making college a reality that could be taken away from them if they don’t keep their grades up. It can go the other way, sure, but at the same time if the kid knows he is going to college and people are counting on him, perhaps there is more incentive to do well.

by jug on May 13, 2008 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Media Coverage

The media wants to jump all over this, and I say let them. Because I don’t see anything changing, we haven’t done anything wrong, and people have been doing it for years. So what’s the big deal?

I acknowledge there is risk involved, in that guys could not develop or get injured, etc. But if nothing else, you have to hand it to BCG for recruiting like a madman and getting the program back into attention. The excitement generated from this recruiting period has been great, and can only bring good things for the program, even if some of the players we’ve recruited don’t pan out as we expected.

by jug on May 14, 2008 12:06 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

8th graders smarter than Tipton

It seems we don’t give enough credit to young people. With the way our nation is heading right now, maybe we should listen to them a little more often. I would say an 8th grader who is very talented already deciding where he is going will take pressure off and allow him to focus on academics instead of all the recruiting jazz. I’ve met Tipton before and think he is a nice fellow, but he is obviously out to get Billy G because the new coach has put something back into the program that ole Tubby never could, and it’s called heart.

by daniel81 on May 14, 2008 10:09 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I just think...

this is a great move overall. I think it benefits us and the player with very little drawbacks. I also think that a basketball coach gets paid to evaluate talent. I don’t see much difference between evaluating a HS junior and a 15 year old. Both could easily go bust. Either way we are in the game with top young players as are other elite schools whether we know it or not. Don’t think other coaches at the elite level do not know about and have some sort of contact with these younger players. They must.

Xbox Live Gamertag: hoopchi

by hoopchi on May 14, 2008 2:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs