Live discussion with Marc Maggard of Kentucky Ink
As was mentioned earlier, I will be going on Marc Maggard's Internet broadcast of Roundball Recruiting tonight at 7:00 to discuss the Jerry Tipton controversy.
To tune in, follow this link to Talkshoe.com. You should be able to listen just by clicking on the appropriate link on that page.
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Go Tru, Get busy!
LOL – my kids would be SO embarrassed of me right now. ;)
by kentuckygirl0724 on May 12, 2008 4:22 PM EDT reply actions
Hey Tru
You might want to bone up on your Kentucky Football history. Don’t want to get caught with your pants down like the time you got interviewed for the Music City Bowl. :)
The Online Home of the Big Blue Nation...
by TheFakeGimelMartinez on May 12, 2008 4:33 PM EDT reply actions
Don’t be surprised if the chat and live broadcast is difficult to get into. TalkShoe isn’t set up to hold the number of people who log in to listen and chat, so it might not run really smoothly. Marc is working with them to see if they can give him some more bandwidth or memory to work with, but for now it’s still a work in progress.
No problem ...
... we’ll do the best we can.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
Well...
According to Marc they have already developed a workaround. Should run smoothly. See you there soon.
by BBallSophist on May 12, 2008 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Make an account BEFORE the show starts....
Guys, it’s MUCH better to make an account before the show starts….it gives you the ability to call in and request to talk, so you can join the discussion.
The show tonite should be fine. Shouldn’t be any real issues. Get there a few minutes early, however.
If you end up not being able to hear, go to www.roundballrecruiting.com and you can listen to the live stream from the player in the top left corner.
TRU….make sure you use the screenname you use here in your profile…..that’s how I’ll know it’s you so I can bring you on the show.
mm
Thanks, Marc!
And sorry about the misspelling over at FB earlier.
The Online Home of the Big Blue Nation...
by TheFakeGimelMartinez on May 12, 2008 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks a lot ...
... Marc, for the update and help, I really appreciate it.
I am looking forward to a good time. It should be lots of fun.
I signed up using the Truzenzuzex screen name—that’s how most people know me even though my “secret identity” is no secret at all!
Thanks again.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
Qualifications?
Can we get Marc to discuss his qualifications for covering recruiting? I know he has “watched” basketball for years as have most of us, but for some reason Marc has managed to get paid for it so I would like to know how he communicated his skillset to the colleges that paid him? For example, saying “I run my own recruiting service” is not an answer and neither is “colleges pay me” as neither answers the fundamental question of “how” and “why” that happens.
For example, did he say “I have been watching college basketball for years and I have some information on a player that you might want to pay me for even though you have no idea of who I am” or what exactly his angle was in pitching himself as a “expert” on the game.
Usually someone that gets involved in the game has some direct experience. They were a coach, a player, or worked in some capacity in the basketball community.
We’ve plumbed Jerry Tipton’s background and know he’s a Basketball Writers Association Hall of Fame inductee and has been covering UK since 1980 as a degreed professional journalist, but I don’t know what Marc’s qualifications are. So if you could clear that up on the show I’d appreciate it. Thanks.
"Never, never, never believe any war will be smooth and easy, or that anyone who embarks on the strange voyage can measure the tides and hurricanes he will encounter. The statesman who yields to war fever must realize that once the signal is given, he is no longer the master of policy but the slave of unforeseeable and uncontrollable events. " -- Sir Winston Churchill
No ...
... we really can’t.
I’m not going on the show to interview him, or talk about him. I am going there to let him ask the questions, for the most part. I am certainly not going to go there with the intention of being controversial or combative.
If Marc sees this and wants to talk about that, fine. Maybe one day he will consent to an interview for us and we will find out more, but I am going by his invitation. His show. His rules.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
By the way ...
... I am incapable of “liveblogging” a conversation like this, so don’t expect to hear from me in here while it’s happening. My mind is much too brittle to multitask at that level. :-)
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
And I wouldn't dare to live-blog it
Glenn might get into an essay-long reply which will wear my fingers down to the bone. :)
The Online Home of the Big Blue Nation...
by TheFakeGimelMartinez on May 12, 2008 7:07 PM EDT reply actions
The Bigger Ass is real!
Marc spills the beans!
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by TheFakeGimelMartinez on May 12, 2008 7:17 PM EDT reply actions
Maggard
This guy claims to have inside information whenever any question comes up to make it impossible to argue with him.
Tru: do you have Tipton’s notes?
Maggard: yes
ok, can’t argue with that.
Tru: Was that a direct quote?
Maggard: Well, she said it to me off-air.
So I suppose Marc’s word is gospel. And if you question him, he has additional information that he hasn’t told anyone yet, but will bring it out if you corner him to end any argument.
Still not a crook!
Actually....
Having listened to Maggard I think he’s on the right side of this issue re: Tipton. Clearly something happened that made the parents (especially Zollo’s mom) feel Tipton was doing something untowards. Is there a possibility that some exaggeration may have occured? Sure, but the fundamental question of Tipton saying things that are unflattering towards UK is unquestionable.
So on this one issue, I will take Maggard’s side.
"Never, never, never believe any war will be smooth and easy, or that anyone who embarks on the strange voyage can measure the tides and hurricanes he will encounter. The statesman who yields to war fever must realize that once the signal is given, he is no longer the master of policy but the slave of unforeseeable and uncontrollable events. " -- Sir Winston Churchill
The "Bigger Ass" thing
Having “The Bigger Ass” quote being true really shows Tipton being unprofessional. Of course, Tipton & LHL editors can deny it, so it doesn’t really make a difference for the Fire Tipton crowd.
The Online Home of the Big Blue Nation...
by TheFakeGimelMartinez on May 12, 2008 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions
With due respect ...
... to all parties, I wouldn’t bet the farm that Tipton actually used those words. It is certainly possible, but I don’t think it is likely. He was speaking to a woman, for heaven’s sake, and a man Tipton’s age is unlikely to use that kind of vernacular with a recruit’s mother.
It would truly be extraordinary if it actually went down that way.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
I don't disagree with that
I just really dislike his debating style. There were obviously questions after his first report on these two issues, so why not divulge your information then to clear everything up? The ass comment was speculated about all over the blog world when it first came out, then tonight he acts as if he was perfectly clear about it from the beginning.
Still not a crook!
Talk show
You too guys really should think about doing a pre-game / Half time show together. You have opposite opinions and stand up for what you think is right. I think it would be one hell of a show. IMO it would be a blast….you are like Oscar, and Mark is not really like that other guy, but he tends to be a little more opinionated. It would be a great show. You two should talk about it
by BlueBloodedCatfan on May 12, 2008 7:37 PM EDT reply actions
Thanks ...
... I’m game for anything. But I think Marc may have bigger fish to fry.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
OK ...
... Well, that was lots of fun. Lot of give and take, and I enjoyed it very much.
I think at the end of the day, we have we all have a take about how Tipton is, and whether he not he actually has an anti-UK agenda. My feeling is that Tipton is trying very hard to look independent from UK, and asking hard, penetrating questions regardless of how they may impact recruiting or the university.
But I don’t think he is biased and I don’t think he is wrong, necessarily. The whole “ass” thing is still something I am a bit skeptical of—not Marc’s comment that he was told that was a quote from Tipton, but whether or not that actually happened. It doesn’t seem like a man of Tipton’s experience would actually use that word in an interview. My considered opinion is that Curry may have embellished that one a bit, but I could be wrong.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
I was waiting!
You were scrambling for a word on what Ms. Curry did. I was waiting for you to say “paraphrase”. Marc seems fairly confident that she did, in fact, quote Tipton.
How many licks does it take to get to the center of a Tipton Pop? The world may never know.
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by TheFakeGimelMartinez on May 12, 2008 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah ...
... he may be right, for all I know. I can’t prove my doubts anymore than he can prove Mrs. Curry was not embellishing. Sort of “proving a negative,” I guess.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
Did anybody stick around
I made a cameo at the end.
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by TheFakeGimelMartinez on May 12, 2008 7:59 PM EDT reply actions
i heard ya
Like the commercial break LOL
by BlueBloodedCatfan on May 12, 2008 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions
That was hilarious
I know as a talk-show host, you have to stop your callers and get your show information out. What else was I supposed to do?
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by TheFakeGimelMartinez on May 12, 2008 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions
What was it again
Scrubbing bubbles Classic LMAO
by BlueBloodedCatfan on May 12, 2008 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah
Next time I’ll sing a jingle. Beware, Marc, beware!
The Online Home of the Big Blue Nation...
by TheFakeGimelMartinez on May 12, 2008 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Kick him in the Jimmy
BTW I haven’t checked it out lately Have you updated you site? You are a great writer and I enjoy what you have to say.
by BlueBloodedCatfan on May 12, 2008 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Later in the week
I’m working on a few things, but hopefully I’ll have posts for ASoB and FB this week. Thanks for your support!
The Online Home of the Big Blue Nation...
by TheFakeGimelMartinez on May 12, 2008 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Keep up the good work
You, Tru and Ken do great work and I always look forward to what you guys have to say. Understand the work thing.sucks that we have to do that in order to have money. Blame it on the man ! LOL Signing off.KY bourbon is kicking me in the rear
by BlueBloodedCatfan on May 12, 2008 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Tipton
Lots of speculation about Tipton’s motives so I will add mine.
Tipton has nothing to gain by UK succeeding. He’s old and past his prime and he doesn’t have any realistic shot at the bigtime like his buddy Pat Forde, so his only ticket is controversy. He needs something big to punch his ticket.
Tubby being fired from UK could have been his ticket if that had happened and therefor it can be speculated that he had a vested interest in recruiting not going well under Tubby. Had there been an acrimonious parting then the National Media would have swarmed over Tipton and he would have been in the limelight to some degree. So he missed on that one.
The Lexington Herald Leader, independent of UK basketball, has often through writers such as Merlene Davis cast Kentuckians stereotypically as backwards and racist. It certainly won’t help that perception when Kentucky goes overwhelmingly for Hillary Clinton next week.
So Tipton has one more shot. If Billy Gillispie fails then by extension the LHL and Tipton will increase their drumbeat claiming we ran Tubby Smith off. If Tipton can spark a few ugly responses then he can hold them up as a badge of “honor” to prove he was fighting the good fight against us base prejudiced backwards fans.
As it stands right now you can better believe he’ll be trumpeting the fact that UK fans tried to run him off when the national press visits for our nationally televised games. That’s what he lives for. Those are his only moments. They look down on us and therefore they are unconcerned with what our opinions are. Tipton only dreams of, even fleetingly, basking in the national spotlight thereby proving he’s not one of us.
In many ways that’s what the LHL does. They condescend us with their insults and if you read some of the responses that emailers were sent over on TCP you can see that condescension bleeding though the ink. They don’t care what our opinions are. They represent perfectly the arrogant Yankee superiority complex and they lord over us completely oblivious as to whether we are insulted by their words or not. We simply are not part of their equation for success.
"Never, never, never believe any war will be smooth and easy, or that anyone who embarks on the strange voyage can measure the tides and hurricanes he will encounter. The statesman who yields to war fever must realize that once the signal is given, he is no longer the master of policy but the slave of unforeseeable and uncontrollable events. " -- Sir Winston Churchill
Tin foil works against the LHL's mind control device!
I keed, I keed.
Its fair to say that the LHL is a left-leaning newspaper. The LHL pay several columnists who happen to down upon and/or detests the society built around UK Basketball. They’re opinion writers, and that’s their opinion; sometimes hearing the unpopular opinion is necessary to spark debate.
Tipton may be a “Negative Ninny”. What about Mark Story? What about John Clay? Honestly, I don’t remember either of them being overly critical of UK. What about the lower-profile staff writers who help cover UK sports?
And I can understand that some negative emails sent by TCP posters were stonewalled. But the LHL is kinda right about two things: 1) its not their job to “rah-rah” UK athletics, and 2) they have their own standard of ethics which they adhear to, and those ethics may not jive with the populous. I’m not going to get into the “Who Watches the Watchmen” issue here, because I do think the LHL’s comment on this situation did not set the record straight.
If the negativity was coming from the entire paper, then I could believe what you wrote. But I don’t think the LHL has crossed into yellow journalism by any means.
The Online Home of the Big Blue Nation...
by TheFakeGimelMartinez on May 12, 2008 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions
No tin foil or mind control....
Just a disdainful staff that seems to revel in finding the cloud in every silver lining for the UK basketball program and even the State of Kentucky.
Remember when Tubby was hired? Remember Merlene Davis’ plea for him not to take the job?
I have lived all over the country in places such as San Diego, Honolulu, Cincinnati, Saint Louis, and Dallas/Ft. Worth, and I have never seen a paper be so conspicuously antagonistic towards their readership. You don’t need to be worthy of wearing a tin foil helmet so see that.
What’s wrong with the local media pulling for the local teams a little bit? In all the other markets I’ve lived in they were sometimes forced to explain why they were being homers rather than spiteful? It is expected that fandom will bleed over into the sports coverage everywhere else I’ve lived. Heck, here in Saint Louis they are constantly “rah-rahing” for the Cardinals in their local coverage and I would imagine they would be out of a job pronto if they were not.
"Never, never, never believe any war will be smooth and easy, or that anyone who embarks on the strange voyage can measure the tides and hurricanes he will encounter. The statesman who yields to war fever must realize that once the signal is given, he is no longer the master of policy but the slave of unforeseeable and uncontrollable events. " -- Sir Winston Churchill
Lex H-L In Mid 1980's
No Tubby then. Still Anti-UK bias by the newspaper. I can’t remember any time when it didn’t exist. Maybe back in the 1960’s?
Folks who spin the Tubby angle in the LHL situation further their own agenda.
by FortyYearCatFan on May 12, 2008 10:02 PM EDT reply actions
A Lengthy Summary Of The 1985 Lex H-L Articles That Won Pulitzer Prize And NCAA Reprimand For UK
(Clipped from NCAA findings)
At the request of the NCAA Committee on Infractions, the University of Kentucky submitted a May 19, 1987, written report of its findings and conclusions regarding its investigation of allegations of NCAA violations that appeared in a Lexington, Kentucky, newspaper on October 27, 1985. The university’s report acknowledged violations the university was able to substantiate, and identified corrective and disciplinary actions to be taken. The NCAA enforcement staff conducted independent inquiries primarily concerning possible violations occurring within the NCAA’s four-year statute of limitations and failed to develop information substantially different than that of the university. In this regard, representatives of the newspaper that printed the original article refused to assist either the university or the NCAA in efforts to verify or support statements concerning violations of NCAA rules that it published. The enforcement staff recommended to the Committee on Infractions that the university’s findings be adopted, and that the corrective and disciplinary actions be accepted in lieu of a penalty to be imposed by the committee.
The committee, however, determined that university representatives should be requested to appear before the committee for the purpose of reviewing the information developed concerning the men`s basketball program. An appearance was scheduled for June 4, 1987, during which the university’s written report identifying the allegations and findings, detailing the scope of the university’s inquiries, stating the university’s position as to the probable truth or falsity of the allegations and identifying the corrective or disciplinary actions taken would be discussed. The university’s report had been submitted under the provisions of Section 7-(g) of the NCAA enforcement procedures, and the university renewed a standing request for the committee to accept its findings as sufficient and to take no further action in the case.
At the June hearing, the university reported that although some violations occurred prior to 1981, no violation could be confirmed within the NCAA’s four-year statute of limitations (i.e., October 1981 to October 1985). The university also reported that corrective actions had been implemented in an effort to prevent future violations. The committee was concerned, however, that complete information had not been developed in the case, and determined that the university again should be requested to appear before the committee to discuss both the specific allegations and the university’s investigative techniques and policies. This request was made pursuant to NCAA Constitution 4-2-(a), Bylaw 9-5-(e) and the Preamble to the Official Procedure Governing the Enforcement Program, which provides in part that the university is obligated to cooperate fully with the NCAA Committee on Infractions in the conduct of relevant inquiries into the university’s intercollegiate athletics program. The committee requested the institution to be prepared to discuss its responses to the following specific questions:
A. Did the university’s investigative techniques hinder or reduce the opportunity to obtain complete and correct information in this case?
B. Has the university taken all reasonable steps to develop information and to confirm information initially reported in a local newspaper?
C. Has the university taken adequate steps to interview all potential sources of information?
D. Should additional action be taken by the university against outside representatives or former student-athletes who have refused to cooperate in its investigation?
E. Does the university contend that the newspaper accounts are substantially incorrect and, if so, why?
Subsequent to the committee’s request, the university’s new president, David P. Roselle, met with NCAA enforcement staff members to discuss the committee’s concerns and then directed the university’s investigators to renew efforts to interview several individuals prior to the university’s hearing before the committee. Questions relating to the university’s investigation, as well as the specific allegations regarding the basketball program, were discussed in detail at the university’s appearance on February 6, 1988. Allegations concerning extra benefits to enrolled student-athletes, including “cash handshakes,” excessive remuneration for speaking engagements, discounts for clothing purchases, free meals and improper sales of complimentary tickets, were considered. Concerning each of these categories, the university asserted either that it was unable to develop sufficient information to conclude that a violation had occurred, or concluded that any proven violation was outside the NCAA’s four-year statute of limitations. The NCAA enforcement staff also was unable in its investigation to develop substantial information (either from individuals identified in the newspaper article or from other possible sources) to confirm violations occurring within the four-year statute of limitations.
After the February hearing, the committee concluded that the university conducted an inadequate investigation on these matters that were within the NCAA’s four-year statute of limitations. General denials of involvement by principals were accepted with little, if any, follow-up questioning as to specifics or independent investigation of facts. For example, although statements by former student-athletes included information indicating that there may have been rules violations regarding the sale of complimentary tickets and the impermissible receipt of money for speeches by student-athletes, the university did not pursue these statements with other possible sources. In addition, the committee found that inadequate efforts were made to induce former student-athletes and representatives of the university’s athletics interests to cooperate in the investigation, despite the continued enrollment of some former student-athletes in professional schools at the university and the fact that these student-athletes and representatives had talked with the newspaper reporters. For example, in its letters to former student-athletes who were not reached by telephone, the university seemed to suggest, as a viable option, that refusal to be interviewed would be a satisfactory response (e.g., “In order for us to complete our investigation, it is necessary for us to interview you regarding the article, or obtain your refusal to be interviewed. In an effort to assist you in making this determination, I am enclosing a list of questions which we would like to ask you.”). Nothing in the letter indicated that the university preferred the cooperation of the addressee, rather than a refusal to be interviewed. Not surprisingly, many recipients of the letter refused to be interviewed.
by FortyYearCatFan on May 12, 2008 10:17 PM EDT reply actions
So the LHL is biased...
...because they uncovered UK cheating in the 1980s? Isn’t that just doing their job?
What are we saying here? That UK Athletics coaching staff and students should be completely unwatched and unchallenged in what they do? Will that really work in this day and age of a cell phone camera/video being everywhere?
The Online Home of the Big Blue Nation...
by TheFakeGimelMartinez on May 12, 2008 10:44 PM EDT reply actions
Agreed.
Are we to expect the Herald Leader to be like the USSR’s Pravda for UK? Hell, even the Kentucky Kernel would have run those allegations had they uncovered them.
The way I see it the paper did the school a service by uncovering these violations. As a fan, I don’t want to be associated with a school that cheats and lies (and I hope the rest of us don’t either) . Also, the next coach that came in did pretty well, no?
by Thomas Hunt Morgan on May 12, 2008 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions
It's really ...
... hard to blame UK fans for not being objective about this. The whole derivation of the word “fan” aught to make it very hard to look past any comments by Tipton that may tend to harm UK’s recruiting interest, whether is is defensible in the sense of a disinterested third party or not.
But make no mistake—the Herald-Leader being out there helps UK. They will not be tempted to break the rules with a newspaper that will not overlook it. In the long run, I think the LHL does a lot to help keep Kentucky on the straight and narrow, which to my mind, is a very good thing. It isn’t as if we have a spotless compliance record, after all.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Glenn Logan on May 12, 2008 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Ample Proof Exists Going Back 25, 30, Or More Years
LHL has never been favorable to UK where Lou C-J is more balanced.
by FortyYearCatFan on May 13, 2008 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Whatever.
This is just silly. If you want to believe that, go ahead.
As to who is more balanced, I have been reading the C-J since I was a delivery boy for them in the early 1970’s. To call them “balanced” is hilarious. If they are in fact more balanced than the LHL, it is an accident.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
They Are More Balanced
I’ve read the C-J since the 1960’s. Don’t know when U were a paper boy.
by FortyYearCatFan on May 13, 2008 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I believe ...
... I said it was in the early 1970’s.
Your opinion is noted.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Glenn Logan on May 13, 2008 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Missed That (70's) Note In Your Earlier Reply
Everything I say is my opinion, usually supported by facts.
by FortyYearCatFan on May 14, 2008 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Usually.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Glenn Logan on May 14, 2008 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t see where a sports page has need of a Mike Wallace and I don’t see any balance in Tipton’s “writing”.
I certainly don’t see why we should sit on our hands, accept, or certainly praise efforts to damage our recruiting or reputation.
I’ll be more than pleased to see, first Tipton out on his can and then to see the LHL close it’s doors or be forced to operate deep in the red. I can deal with the Courier Journal’s coverage and that publication is not acting as a cheerleader.
I don’t see how anyone can read these articles this rag throws out and can say with a straight face that UK is covered with even neutrality, forget any semblance of a positive slant.
It’s a clearly negative slant that the Hearld has elected to cover the program with, they are being down and dirty and the University and it’s supporters ought to throw our weight around too. Pull credentials, boycott sponsors, resist the urge to “click”, cancel subscriptions, and crash their email server.
Free speech is not speech without cost. We shoould make every effort to let the LHL know the cost of less than even handed coverage of Kentucky athletics.
You are ...
... certainly entitled to that view.
Neither the LHL, C-J, nor any other newspaper owes UK or any other college a “positive slant.” In fact, I would suggest a positive slant is a case of them not doing their job as well as they should.
Kentucky isn’t exactly the poster child for doing things the right way. We have been gigged over and over again for NCAA violations, and any newspaper that is not cognizant of that fact is laying down on the job. I know that isn’t something that fans like to talk about, and I don’t really like to talk about it either. But when people speak of “journalistic integrity,” what they are talking about is not being so in love with the subject of their coverage that they sacrifice objectivity on the altar of making the fans happy with an endless parade of puff pieces, or loath them to the extent that all you do is look for the bad and ignore the good.
What you and others seem to be demanding is the former. You won’t get it, nor should you. I will grant you that Tipton sometimes fails to balance the downside of his article with the other side, but he doesn’t do that every time. Taking issue with his articles is fine, and I do it when I feels he is unbalanced, but in sum, I don’t think he is unfair all that often. When he is, though, it tends to be in the negative, and that’s what I think sticks in most UK fan’s craw.
To address your comments about “pulling credentials,” I can assure you that the University of Kentucky would be eviscerated in both the local and national media if they ever did that for Tipton. It isn’t going to happen, at least not because of this latest dustup. That’s my opinion, anyway.
If you want to engage in all those protests you named, fine. One thing that every newspaper reader has a right to do is protest by not reading, writing letters to the editor, and complaining at every available opportunity. I think calling for the Tipton’s job is extreme, but that’s just me. I have no problem with angry fans making themselves heard over at the LHL—it may even do some good. I personally don’t feel offended enough by what Tipton did to do so, but that is as much because I don’t think I have enough facts to justify it as any other reason. Reading and subscribing to a newspaper is a choice, and if you feel that newspaper is doing something wrong, by all means you should protest, cancel your subscriptions, whatever.
Finally, your comment about free speech - not all speech is free, that’s for sure. But to claim that the LHL’s coverage of UK is “less than even handed” is truly ironic - if anything, their coverage taken in total is relatively positive. Tipton’s negativity is hardly sufficient to negate the overall positive tone of Story, Clay, Crosby and the rest. I think it is much more effective to draw attention to questionable actions, as both Marc Maggard has done over the last few days and we have done in the recent past.
In sum, be as angry as you wanna be, but try to keep it in perspective. Just because you, or me, or anyone else is certain we are right, we must respect the legitimate opinions of others. That’s what adults of good will do. We don’t have to agree with them, but we must respect their right to hold alternative views—otherwise, we risk engaging in the very sort of behavior that Tipton is being accused of.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
Well Said
Tru, totally agree. This just seems to be another case of UK fans getting all “riled” up with outrage. The paranoia that some UK fans is foreign to me. Behind every little nook and cranny, there is something or someone trying to bring down UK. Just don’t see it.
by strawmanmunny on May 13, 2008 9:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Tru's buying the LHL's Karl Rovian spin....
The question is not, nor has it ever been, that Kentucky fans are saying the LHL should be a “rah rah” propaganda machine for Kentucky. What Kentucky fans are saying is that they are tired of Jerry Tipton’s snide little backhanded swipes and BCG and the Kentucky program, and that his remarks to the families of UK recruits were over the line.
To spin that as somehow UK fans expecting the LHL to drink the UK koolaid is disingenuous and fails to address the point at hand honestly.
As I said before, in nearly all sports markets (certainly the ones I have been exposed to) the local media DOES pander to the local sports teams because, well, sports is a form of entertainment and who wants to have a bunch of critics raining on your parade all the time? Here in St. Louis a writer would be ran out of town for running down the Cardinals constantly for sure.
That point is not to say that Kentucky fans should demand the LHL be the same way for Kentucky, it is to demonstrate that not only does the LHL fail to even be fair to UK, it swings the other way and is unnecessarily negative and/or antagonistic towards Kentuckians and Kentucky fans a great deal of the time with their double barrel shotgun of Merlene Davis and Jerry Tipton unloading at every opportunity.
It is certainly en vogue right now to blast away at UK fans and I’m sorry to see so many UK bloggers jumping on that tired old bandwagon. Our fans are better than the LHL AND most of the bloggers out there sucking up to them.
"Never, never, never believe any war will be smooth and easy, or that anyone who embarks on the strange voyage can measure the tides and hurricanes he will encounter. The statesman who yields to war fever must realize that once the signal is given, he is no longer the master of policy but the slave of unforeseeable and uncontrollable events. " -- Sir Winston Churchill
Um...
Crow, what problems do you have with Crosby, Clay, and the rest of the sports reporting staff who cover UK Basketball? Because I can’t condemn the LHL as an “anti-UK” paper if only one member of the sports staff is making anti-UK writing.
And nobody is blasting away at UK fans, except that sometimes some fans are getting a little too overprotective of the program. Jerry Tipton or the LHL can not ruin the efforts of the basketball team.
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by TheFakeGimelMartinez on May 13, 2008 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions
As long as....
...you keep taking what I am saying and stretching it to the extreme we really can’t make any progress in discussing the issue.
As I said, writers at the LHL like Merlene Davis and Jerry Tipton unload on UK and/or make snippy little backhanded remarks about some aspect of Kentucky basketball and/or Kentucky fans in virtually everything they write and a lot of people are tired of it.
As for the other writers, other than being an unremarkable lot I really don’t have anything against them. Both Story and Clay piled on a little bit when Tubby left, but they didn’t dwell on it the way Tipton has.
"Never, never, never believe any war will be smooth and easy, or that anyone who embarks on the strange voyage can measure the tides and hurricanes he will encounter. The statesman who yields to war fever must realize that once the signal is given, he is no longer the master of policy but the slave of unforeseeable and uncontrollable events. " -- Sir Winston Churchill
3 writers, a paper doesn't make
You mention Davis and Tipton by name when you say, “it is to demonstrate that not only does the LHL fail to even be fair to UK, it swings the other way and is unnecessarily negative and/or antagonistic towards Kentuckians and Kentucky fans a great deal of the time”.
But those are JUST TWO WRITERS! One of whom is not even a sports columnist and doesn’t write about sports every day! The LHL employs many other opinion writers who show pro-UK or no UK interest whatsoever. While the LHL profits from the stories and opinions it publishes each day, I don’t see anything across the entire paper that proves that the LHL is interested in promoting “unnecessarily negative and/or antagonistic towards Kentuckians and Kentucky fans” on a daily basis.
Tipton’s articles swing back and forth between “even-handed reporting” and “Negative Ninny Whinny”. But I think it is a stretch to say Tipton’s body of work can be defined by either end of that spectrum. I understand that many UK fans are getting sick of Tipton’s dips into the Ninny side. I think we’re getting to the point where each of Tipton’s articles are over-analyzed in the point of finding an “hidden agenda”.
As far as the other members of the LHL anti-UK sports brigade goes, I’d add Cheryl Truman to the list. As an example of her sports-hating persona, Truman’s Derby Seven Deadly Sins column basically shit all over the Derby and anybody who likes the Derby. As far as UK basketball is concerned, Truman wrote a very negative opinion about the emphasis fans put on UK Basketball when Tubby left. Like Davis, Truman is entitled to her opinion. Both women know shit about the social fabric of sports, however.
I think the Tipton debate will rage over the summer. If Tipton does something that is unfair, I think Tru will be the first in line with the “Negative Ninny” hammer. But I don’t think you can broadly paint the LHL as a paper that is “unnecessarily negative and/or antagonistic towards Kentuckians and Kentucky fans” just because Tipton is under their employ.
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by TheFakeGimelMartinez on May 13, 2008 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Good points, TFGM..
..but in order to agree with your point of view I would have to conclude that it is somehow “normal” for a local paper to have multiple writers that routinely write antagognistic articles about the local sports team and I don’t buy that.
It is even stranger for the beat writer in a college town to basically have it in for the school that he is covering. A writer in Chapel Hill wouldn’t last a week if they started zinging UNC at every opportunity. Heck, Coach K called the student newspaper into a meeting and basically made it clear how he expected they would cover the team.
I’m not saying the LHL should be like that, but I am saying UK fans should expect that the beat writer from the LHL that is covering UK Basketball should at least act like he doesn’t think the fans are all a bunch of ignorant racists and that the program is run by child abusing drunks in between their womanizing and fits of public rage.
Tru, I don’t know if this post is going to land above or below your response, but I did not intent to imply you were sucking up. I intended to imply that I am surprised by the general response on all the UK blogs that I have read that are falling in behind what I consider to be an obvious pattern of conduct by Tipton and they are playing all the familiar “Kentucky fans are insane” cards to boot. I didn’t see that coming but you guys are free to call it as you see it and that’s why you have blogs that you write on, I suppose.
"Never, never, never believe any war will be smooth and easy, or that anyone who embarks on the strange voyage can measure the tides and hurricanes he will encounter. The statesman who yields to war fever must realize that once the signal is given, he is no longer the master of policy but the slave of unforeseeable and uncontrollable events. " -- Sir Winston Churchill
OK ...
... I get your point. But I don’t think, and never said that Kentucky fans are insane or even acting foolishly. Maybe they are a little too exercised, but I do completely understand why they are outraged. I really do. And I don’t blame them. I also don’t really blame Tipton that much, because I think that despite the fact he is a Negative Ninny, he isn’t the only one or even the worst. Most every newspaper has one at one point or another.
I question the effectiveness of the measures they are taking collectively, but I say if it makes them feel better, cancel that LHL subscription. Fire off those scathing emails and letters. Make yourself heard. This is America. :-)
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
Concerning the Courier-Journal
I’m pretty sure every time Louisville AD Tom Jurich whines about UK, C-J Columnists Bozich and Crawford flip a coin to see who gets to write the “condemn UK!” column. I’m semi-kidding; I do remember the “Poor Louisville can’t schedule SEC teams (other than Kentucky)” and “Kentucky won’t let Poor Louisville have the game shown on ESPN” columns.
By the way, am I the only one who is really hoping Marc Maggard calls Jeremiah Davis’s parents, since Jerry interviewed the recruit and his father.
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by TheFakeGimelMartinez on May 13, 2008 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually...
Vitale and others on the air have credited Tipton as their source for what was going on in Lexington when they came to town. This guy is in a unique position to really hurt UK with bad publicity if he so chooses and I for one would like to know just how often he has been putting the knife to our backsides in more ways than just recruiting.
"Never, never, never believe any war will be smooth and easy, or that anyone who embarks on the strange voyage can measure the tides and hurricanes he will encounter. The statesman who yields to war fever must realize that once the signal is given, he is no longer the master of policy but the slave of unforeseeable and uncontrollable events. " -- Sir Winston Churchill
Just as ...
... Marc raised the issue last night that he thought the fact Tipton did not interview Hood was related to the two incidents that Marc brought out.
I have a different theory. I believe Tipton interviewing the very early commits. I believe there is a very significant reason behind that, but I’m not quite sure I know what it is.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Glenn Logan on May 13, 2008 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I know why!
Because the Big Bad Tipton Wolf is going to BLOW OUR HOUSE DOWN with a new scandal! :)
Tipton didn’t get Hood, but he did interview the new Davis kid who was offered.
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by TheFakeGimelMartinez on May 14, 2008 1:19 AM EDT up reply actions
No ...
... I’m really not.
Many UK fans are saying exactly that. They are essentially asking the LHL to limit the questions that its reporters may ask to “safe” questions—that is, questions which do not carry any negative implication about, in this case, the basketball program. Some UK fans are to the point that they see “swipes” at UK, or Gillispie, or recruits, or you name it no matter what he says. This dustup is all about the perception that Tipton asked questions that seemed to imply Gillispie’s methods were responsible for injury. I have addressed that at length, and although I don’t agree with that assessment, I don’t think it is out of the realm of possibility.
I think, on balance, the LHL is fair to Kentucky. That is my considered opinion. I know others hold a very different opinion, which I don’t begrudge at all. What I am tired of is people begrudging me my opinion—their actions are ironically the obverse of what they demand from the LHL. Some might call that a study in hypocrisy.
I reject the notion that this blog “sucks up” to anybody. Just because you don’t agree with my opinion does not make it wrong, nor make me a “suck up.”
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
Did anyone else record the show?
I expected it to be on the talkshoe archvies like the rest of Marc’s segments, so I didn’t make a point of listening to it live. But it isn’t there. Anyone have any ideas?
OMG CONSPIRACY!!!
According to a post made by Marc on the Kentucky Ink forums, the episode has been accidentally deleted. I think its clear that Marc is colluding with the LHL to keep us from the Truth. :) (Just kidding, Marc might be able to repost the episode.)
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by TheFakeGimelMartinez on May 13, 2008 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions
More likely....
Marc’s goofy “aids” analogy is probably why it was “lost” as that certainly was out of left field.
"Never, never, never believe any war will be smooth and easy, or that anyone who embarks on the strange voyage can measure the tides and hurricanes he will encounter. The statesman who yields to war fever must realize that once the signal is given, he is no longer the master of policy but the slave of unforeseeable and uncontrollable events. " -- Sir Winston Churchill
That was awkward
And it could easily be misconstrued in this Politically Correct day and age.
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by TheFakeGimelMartinez on May 13, 2008 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Old link gone
I think that post I linked to above has been deleted. Here’s one in their support forums on the May 12th call-in show.
The Online Home of the Big Blue Nation...
by TheFakeGimelMartinez on May 13, 2008 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions
I was surprised...
That I agreed with Maggard. I actually thought he was well prepared and made some very good points. The one about Tipton only coughing up the audio for the Avery interview and failing to produce the more controversial audio from the Zollo interview was VERY interesting and I’d like to see someone follow up on that.
Everyone knows I really can’t stand Marc (he emailed me a green card application after my post about asking him for his qualifications because he knows my wife is Mexican), but on this one subject I really do think he is bringing to light something that is very important to the UK program because I honestly believe Tipton has been doing this for some time now.
"Never, never, never believe any war will be smooth and easy, or that anyone who embarks on the strange voyage can measure the tides and hurricanes he will encounter. The statesman who yields to war fever must realize that once the signal is given, he is no longer the master of policy but the slave of unforeseeable and uncontrollable events. " -- Sir Winston Churchill
Well ...
... I do think Marc has a good question about why Linda Austin seemed to suggest that Tipton had not recorded his conversation with Curry when he apparently did record the one with Avery. However, one possible explanation could be that he did record it, and she simply included it in the definition of notes.
But it is a fair question, although by no means either dispositive or even particularly incriminating. But it does beg the question “Why?”
I’m not sure what kind of “follow up you are suggesting, though. LHL is not going to discuss this issue any further, my guess is.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

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