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New NBA rule

What does everyone think about the NBA's new rule requiring players to stay in college for two years now? I read somewhere that these kids were likely to take the rule and challenge its legality, but wasn't this already done in the NFL?

I had thought that the grey goose drinkin, gun wielding Maurice Clarett ruined it for everyone, but maybe not. Could some of our sharp legal minds here at ASoB set me straight please?

Assuming the rule sticks, It seems it would be beneficial to the great recruiters (BCG), but also reduce some of the parody in college hoops. The increase in talent level would lessen the emphasis on great coaching and make the recruiting trails even more ruthless (Bruce Pearl).

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Good and Bad
I think that this has a good and bad side to it.  The good side being the benefit of education which IMO is never a bad thing.  The bad being situations where players feel "forced" to play on a college team and have attitudes reflective of such.  Ofcourse that can (and should) be taken care of accordingly by the team's coach, but sure could make for some added headache for them in dealing with it.

by kentuckygirl0724 on Apr 15, 2008 11:11 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Nothing but Good
This rule is just now being discussed and still has to be adopted in the the NBA players collective bargaining agreement and the current one doesnt end until 2010. Bottom line is if it happens you wont even see it until at least 2010.

I think it's a good thing both for these players and for college basketball. For every high school or freshman players that declares early and becomes a success I think there are at least ten that dont that maybe could have been with a couple more years of development under their belt. This years boneheaded decision award goes to Early Clark and Derrick Charachter. As much as I hate UofL these kids are making stupid decisions.

The two year rule will lead to more stockpiled talent on college teams and that can only make the game better while these kids are getting an education at the same time.

DEEETROIT BASKETBALLL!!!

by davw83 on Apr 15, 2008 11:44 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Personally
I think (agree) that it is a good idea to require players to go to college before entering the NBA.  I was just playing a little devil's advocate and thinking of the high school "stars" with big NBA plans (that DONT include "playing for free" in college) that will undoubtedly be offended by this change.

by kentuckygirl0724 on Apr 15, 2008 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Stockpiled talent
will only be at the larger schools. Since UK is one of the schools that will benefit I don't really mind, but I do think that it will adversely affect the smaller schools.

Your Beasely's, Rose's, and Mayo's are going to the WAC or SunBelt. IMO Those conference's will see an increase in talent due to fewer spots at big programs for the average player, but it will be a relative one compared to the one larger programs get.

Still not a crook!

by TrickyD26 on Apr 15, 2008 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

IMO, 2-year rule is good,
Not only would the 2-year rule better prepare a player physically for the next level, but one more mandatory year of college would help them prepare mentally.  With the 1-year rule you have 18-19 year old kids who have all this talent and are immediately thrust into the NBA where boat loads of money are being thrown at them.  Most have no prior experience handling money of any kind, let alone millions.  One more year to mature both physically and mentally would surely be beneficial to these kids.

by BigSkyCat on Apr 15, 2008 12:04 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Agree
Tough spot to be in. I have hired a designer/programmer who is dropping out of UK and dumping his academic scholly to make real money in the profession he has always wanted. Who could blame ANYONE for taking the bag of money.

However, he is 21 and not 17-18 and although our environment is way cool (no fridays, no micro-management, no dress code, xbox etc.) we do not have him in bars with money sucking gals all over him (not that he would complain)and his pockets are full of $10's and $20's not THOUSANDS.

I think this rule would cool the jets of freinds and family in their ears telling them they are the shnit and will let reality sink in to know if they actually are or if they should work on some things to get there or even the reality of getting the education.

I think good rule.

by wilson452 on Apr 15, 2008 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

God wilson,
Can I come work for you too?  I wonder if Ken negotiated those kinds of benefits with his new gig?  I'm guessing not.  : )

BTW, hang on to that crystal ball of yours; you never know when you might need to "see" into the future.  : )

by BigSkyCat on Apr 15, 2008 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

LOL
Well, what do you do and what part do you like best: 4 day week, dress code, self manage or xbox?
There is also a collection of vintage guitar amps and guitars around too.

It will tell me a bunch from which one. But be careful, there must be something about this job that makes you offset with such perks ;-)

Besides, unless I start spending less time reading ASoB and more time working it all could go away.

by wilson452 on Apr 15, 2008 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

How about a designated player
of the vintage guitars and amps? Music while you work has been proven to get the creative juices flowing. I'm your man Wilson!!
Still not a crook!

by TrickyD26 on Apr 15, 2008 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was of course joking,
I've actually got a pretty sweet gig for myself right now -- I get to be a mommy.
I choose my own dress code, I'm my own manager, I can play games, cruise the internet, watch TV, go shopping -- I am a very lucky girl.  I have no musical talent whatsoever, so no chance of playing guitar for me.  But far and away the best benefit of my job is that I get to hang out with my kids all day, every day.  Plus, I can spend as much time as I want on ASoB without even a remote chance of losing my job!  Only down side is no days off and no actual cash to be made in my current profession.  However, the non-material rewards keep me coming back every day for more!

You know, if you start doing your employement advertising on ASoB, I'm almost sure Tru will want to charge you.  : )

by BigSkyCat on Apr 15, 2008 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

AWESOME!
You actually have the most rewarding life of all.

I have a 3 year old girl that I would trade it all to be Mr. Mom. I might even rewire the house..220, 221 what ever it takes (anyone?)

And I wouldn't troll ASoB for employees. I read the posts!

Well, that one guy that called Tru an idiot today, him I would hire :-)

by wilson452 on Apr 15, 2008 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Greatest job in the world...
Father of three here, my oldest turns 11 today!  Due to 50+ hour a week work schedule I don't get just hang out with them as often as I would like.  You are very lucky, keep up the good work.  

by wldcatsfreak on Apr 15, 2008 9:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The extent of Tru/Ken negotiations
Tru-- Do you want to do it?
Ken-- Yes.

Not exactly Kevin Spacey, am I?

by Ken Howlett on Apr 15, 2008 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ken Ken Ken
Did you at least get an ASoB mouse pad or T-shirt?

Wait, there are no mouse pads or T-shirts???

I smell a virgin revenue stream here...

by wilson452 on Apr 15, 2008 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

We're going national ...
... with this gig soon, and then the payoff will hit. Wait a minute, ASoB is already national, international even ... someone mislead me :)

by Ken Howlett on Apr 15, 2008 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nice perks!
Now I feel like I'm missing something not living in the commonwealth!

What's the salary range?

by EEWildcat on Apr 15, 2008 9:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

$37.50
a day!

The perks cost a ton to provide.

I only hire Duke fans. Makes it easy to fire 'em. Fun even.

I smack the floor and stomp their chests until they quit mostly.

by wilson452 on Apr 15, 2008 9:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ouch!
Whew, I don't feel so bad then - maybe I'm not missing so much!  8')

by EEWildcat on Apr 15, 2008 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The next time you need a programmer
...let me know. Sheesh, my kids would love the Xbox Benefit Package. (Well, me too. :))
The Online Home of the Big Blue Nation...

by TheFakeGimelMartinez on Apr 21, 2008 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Frankly ...
I would prefer a rule similar to that of the NFL.  That rule is that no person less than 3 years out of high school can play in the NFL.  It was recently tested in Federal court by a young Ohio State player and he won summary judgment at trial.  However, the U.S. 2nd circuit court of appeals overturned the trial court.

My assumption is that the appeal can now be made for a rehearing of the case en banc in the 2nd circuit, and if that challenge is unsuccessful, only the U.S. Supreme Court remains.

If the NFL rule is successfully overturned by the courts, I think that the U.S. Congress will have to get involved.  The idea of allowing these young kids access to the pros, and removing the leagues from having any say about it just goes against my sense of fairness.

Finally, if the young player's appeal is successful, the NBA rule as it currently stands will surely fall under precedent.  We will then be back to square one.

by Truzenzuzex on Apr 15, 2008 12:24 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Correction ...
the Supreme Court refused to hear the case.  It is over.

by Truzenzuzex on Apr 15, 2008 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

NBA age-limit rule
John Clay reported on this possibility in his blog a couple of weeks ago.

There was talk of the rule being voted in this year, but it was not. Regardless, I think whenever it goes into affect, it will be a good thing.

http://johnclay.typepad.com/sidelines/page/2/

by Ken Howlett on Apr 15, 2008 12:25 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Very good rule for...
universities and the fans who follow them.  

Ultimately it is a good rule for the kid, he gets to improve game skills while hopefully maturing and receiving an education.

However, an argument can be made that it is unfair to deny anyone the opportunity to earn a living.  For instance, let's say player A has  NBA talent and is a sure fire lock to be a top pick right out of high school.  Let's also say he doesn't test well and while he tries hard and is a good kid, his grades are below average and he will have a hard time getting into a top flight college.  Oh, and by the way he is being raised in a single family home where mom/dad has to work two jobs to earn ends meat and he has to help take care of his younger brothers/sisters which in turn makes it even harder for him to study and try to improve his grades.  

Is it really fair to tell this kid he has to wait two years to change the lives of his family for the better.

I am not saying this is the case with all kids wanting to skip the college experience and go straight to the pros, but in this day and age the example above is very realistic.  I personally like the stay in school longer message, but there is a difference between the NBA and NFL.  It's been proven that an 18-19 year old young man can compete in the NBA w/o an overwhelming physical disadvantage.  This is not the case in the NFL, I don't care how big or strong a kid is coming out of high school, it would be a massacre to throw him up against the giants that have 4-5 years under their belts in professional football.  Thus the rule not allowing anyone in unless you are three years removed from HS.

Anyway, that's my soapbox rant on the subject, it's definately a tricky question.  Do you legislate a kid not being able to improve his finacial situation in life in hopes that in the long run he is able to grow as a person an athlete?  Hard to say, look at Greg Oden, had he been forced to stay in school one more year, his knee problems would have occured while at Ohio State and one never knows if it would have cost him MILLIONS of dollars.

by wldcatsfreak on Apr 15, 2008 5:34 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Interesting Player "A" case
It's really quite sad actually.  

I would be curious to know, when it was allowed, how many of the athletes who went straight to the NBA out of high school are thriving?  Kobe, LeBron, KG -- those are the obvious ones.   And how many fizzled out, never to be heard from again?   Hmmm...

by BigSkyCat on Apr 15, 2008 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

list
wikipedia has a list of HS players drafted from 1995-2005...definitely a few names i've forgotten or didn't know even.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prep-to-pro_players

GO BIG BLUE!! GO BIG BLUE!!

by UKWildCatFanatic on Apr 16, 2008 1:01 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Should get a stipend
I think they should at least be eligible to get a small stipend - maybe $2k a year or so?  They're not even allowed to get part time jobs like other students, and they make tons of money for the schools' athletic departments.  TA's and RA's get a stipend, so it's not unprecedented.

At least let them have some pocket money to take their girlfriends out to dinner and buy them some presents.

by EEWildcat on Apr 15, 2008 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No doubt...
they earn HUGE dollars for the schools.  The only problem with throwing some coin their way would be someone, somewhere would find a way to corrupt the system and kids would be getting paid for phantom jobs and possibly attending school at highest bidder University.

Eventually though it would be nice to see something done about it.

by wldcatsfreak on Apr 15, 2008 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Solved
Phantom Jobs?  I was suggesting a stipend, so there's no job.  You just get it for helping the university accomplish its mission, like TA's and RA's get one.

Highest bidder?  Put a $2000/year cap on it.  Problem solved.  Any more coin than this is dealt with as a NCAA violation, just like now.  $2k is such a puny amount to an NCAA tournament school.  So it shouldn't be a differentiating factor at all.

by EEWildcat on Apr 18, 2008 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I understand completely...
what you are saying and AGREE with you.

The only point I was making was if you open the door a little bit someone, somewhere will always try to test the system and come up with ways to bend/break the rules.

by wldcatsfreak on Apr 18, 2008 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Problem
The problem with paying collegiate athletes is this question; do you pay all of the athletes at all Division 1 schools?  Because if you do, that's a couple of thousand athletes (minimum) per school. That's a very expensive proposition.

Some would counter-argue with, "we'll only pay the revenue-producing sport's athletes".  If that is the case the schools better lawyer-up because the subpoenas will come-a-flyin'.

I agree with you all about the fact that there exists a problem.  My main concern are the athletes who come from an impoverished background.  Not being able to spend a few bucks on a pizza or a movie, or take out that special co-ed has to be hard to deal with.

More than one head coach has had issues with the NCAA about providing money, or a flight home for a kid.  People pass away, and get sick; if the player is from California, getting home can be an expensive proposition.

There are too many scenarios to list here, but suffice it to say something needs to be done.

I don't really have a good answer.  As wldcatsfreak points out; someone will ALWAYS attempt to circumvent the rules, or corrupt the process.  Finding a solution that is "corrupt-proof" is impossible, in my opinion, but that doesn't mean the NCAA shouldn't at least put forth a good faith effort in finding a solution.

I have changed my stance on this issue over the last 10-15 years.  I used to feel that the free education the athletes received was plenty of payment for their services.  But the dollars involved now are simply incredible.  

It just doesn't feel right to me for the  universities, the individual conferences, TV, and radio to profit so handsomely, while one of the kids responsible for those huge paychecks can't afford to take his girlfriend to a movie.

       

by Ken Howlett on Apr 20, 2008 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

List
The one thing that list doesnt include is all of the high school players who decalred for the draft and went undrafted never to be heard from again.

I would like to see how long that one is.

DEEETROIT BASKETBALLL!!!

by davw83 on Apr 16, 2008 10:33 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

The proposed NBA
rule is a good one. The best part is that the kids that feel "forced" to go to school can always skip college and play for the NBDL and earn some dough ($100 game?) while harnessing their skills for the day they are eligible to get into the NBA Draft. Either way they get to learn a little about life before they get the NBA pay (IF they get the NBA pay).

by bluecrip on Apr 17, 2008 11:37 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

question
doesnt this have to get passed by the players association first?

by cardsfan84 on Apr 17, 2008 5:32 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I believe so ...
... but I can't think of a GOOD argument against such a rule.  

by Ken Howlett on Apr 17, 2008 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Collective bargaining and stipends
This does have to be approved by the NBA players association first in the new collective bargaining agreement which wont happen until 2010. I can tell you right now most players are against the new rule BUT if Stern gives them something worth enough to them they could pass it as a compromise.

I personally feel like this rule is good for both leagues. The more time these kids spend in school the more built in fans they will bring with them to the NBA and that is something the league needs badly.

On paying college kids. IT WONT EVER WORK. If you pay basketball or football players you also have to pay rifle team members and swimmers. Im sorry but the cost would be too expensive if you did it the right way that wouldnt leave you open to all kinds of lawsuits from little known sports.

DEEETROIT BASKETBALLL!!!

by davw83 on Apr 18, 2008 4:00 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

College Kids Were Paid In 1950's 60's 70's 80's
It worked then. It was illegal but it worked.

Many college football or basketball programs paid their players to attend their schools.

Many NOT ALL did. My stepdaughter was NOT paid to attend UCLA but her 5th year (1993-94 season for basketball only) was paid IN FULL by a wealthy Bruin alum.

She was on Volleyball scholarship that ended in 1993. UCLA wanted her to play her 4th year of basketball eligibility. My wife (who was a single Mom then) could hardly afford the $25K or $30K it cost to attend UCLA as an out of state student.

So UCLA alum paid her tuition, room & board, the whole 9 yards (of her cost to attend UCLA).

by FortyYearCatFan on Apr 20, 2008 7:42 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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