OPEN SHOT: NCAA Tourney

by JL Blue on Mar 21, 2008 6:29 PM EDT in Open Thread Comment 48 comments

So that "crappy" San Diego team we lost to at home turned out to be not so bad, huh?

And a hearty congrats to Lyon County, Kentucky's own Ty Rogers, whose dagger from way out shocked everyone's Midwest darling, Drake.

Hey, Tru, don't look now, but your Hilltoppers have outlasted your Wildcats ... when was the last time THAT happened?

This is your open thread.

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Upsets!

Never knew Tru's alma mater...congrats Tru!

Can't wait to hear his comments JL. You must love to get his adrenaline going!...seems he has been in silence for a while today...contemplating.

But I have to say I love his posts!

Go Cats!

by kykat51 on Mar 21, 2008 6:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Thanks ...

at least I still have somebody to cheer for instead of just cheering against people. You know who I mean.

:-)

by Truzenzuzex on Mar 21, 2008 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

yeah

heres to another overtime victory for western to lead us to the sweet sixteen! Although duke escaped by 1 hopefully Louisville won't get so lucky tonight

by brianbman on Mar 21, 2008 6:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I'm a Wildcat

but I grew up in Hilltopper Country and I seem to remember at least twice in my life when Tru's Hilltopper's beat UK.

by cat woman on Mar 21, 2008 7:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Yep ...

Back when they had Jim McDaniels, they won national third place (an honor that is no longer bestowed).

In fact, Western is one of the few teams in the nation and the only team in the state that has a winning record against the Cats (3-2).

by Truzenzuzex on Mar 21, 2008 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

McDaniels was honored last night...

...at the Sweet 16. Considering his age and considerable size he seemed to be in pretty good health.

by Ken Howlett on Mar 22, 2008 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I want Louisville to win their game

After UK went out, I decided I'd pull for any team in Kentucky as well as any team in the SEC. And, I couldn't be happier about San Diego even though my bracket is in pieces now! Oh how I long to hear the pundits with their bright remarks about San Diego now.

by bluegrassgal on Mar 21, 2008 7:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

The only cure for what you have...

....is to take 32 aspirin and get some bed rest :)

by Ken Howlett on Mar 21, 2008 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

ty rogers

ESPN already has a story up on rogers. good read...

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/ncaatourney08/columns/story?columnist=schlabach_mark&id=3305723

GO BIG BLUE!! GO BIG BLUE!!

by UKWildCatFanatic on Mar 21, 2008 7:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Thanks for the link.

I can't stand Schlabach, but that is a good piece on Rogers.

by Ken Howlett on Mar 21, 2008 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

D. Miller

BCG takes in Darius Miller's state quarterfinal game with Bill Keightley.

http://www.courier-journal.com/blogs/demling/2008/03/gillispie-watching-darius-miller.html

Anybody doubt Gillispie and Keightley could tell some stories about their hell raising days?

by Thomas Hunt Morgan on Mar 21, 2008 10:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Clyde and Bill

You write as if their hell-raising days are behind them :)

by Ken Howlett on Mar 22, 2008 12:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Western Kentucky

I GUESS I'LL ROOT FOR MY ALMA MATER TOO.

I'M A WESTERN GRAD ALSO.

CAT DADDY

by CAT DADDY on Mar 21, 2008 10:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, baybee!

Go Toppers!

by Truzenzuzex on Mar 21, 2008 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Van Pelt did a good interview...

..with Rogers just now on ESPN.

Rogers said he had 172 text messages after the game.

by Ken Howlett on Mar 22, 2008 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Big Dance

You could put butter on my brackets because they are T-O-A-S-T.

by Ken Howlett on Mar 22, 2008 12:49 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Ha Ha!

Me too, brother.

Sheesh.

by Truzenzuzex on Mar 22, 2008 8:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dilema

Did yall know that WKU's band played for San Diego. They put on some blue shirts and played some San Diego music. Apparently San Diego's band went to the womens game. LOL. Way to show class WKU. I love Western but San Diego has just really won me over lately. I watched them win their tourney and then watched them play today. Did yall know that Rob Jones from San Diego is the adopted son of Jim Jones. I read a story from a sports mag about him and its truly heartwrenching what he went through because of his fathers sins. So Sunday, I will be happy if either team wins. Way to go WKU! Way to go San Diego

by tenken on Mar 22, 2008 12:58 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

The band's on the field, the band's on the field..

...oh, wrong band.

I read a story on Jones on ESPN.com, I believe. I'm not sure of the media outlet, but you are right, that kid has been through hell because of the sins of his father. He's lucky to be alive. If he had been on the compound instead of playing in a basketball game, he surely would have perished, on that fateful day.

San Diego reminds me of UK. They grind.

I could really pull for them, but now that they are playing Western, I have to be a Topper fan.

I think it's going to be too much Lee and Brazelton. Evans has played out of his mind for the last month or so. He's really come into his own. I think Western has too many horses for the Torreros to handle.

Going along with my success rate for choosing winners this tournament, San Diego will probably win by 20.

Great info about the WKU band. A classy move for sure.

Could anyone imagine UK's band doing the same for UL. Not I.

by Ken Howlett on Mar 22, 2008 1:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I did know know about Jones ...

but I did not know the Hilltopper band did that for San Diego.

Very cool. I'm always proud to be a Western alum, now doubly so.

by Truzenzuzex on Mar 22, 2008 8:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Congratulations...

....to John Pelphrey and his Hogs. John's on his way to doing great things at Arkansas. Now, if we can only get Travis down to LSU.

IU fell apart the last 5 games of the season. Think they quit on Dakich?

by Ken Howlett on Mar 22, 2008 2:02 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Well ...

the SEC had been sucking huge up until that game. Now we are just sucking with 3 losses in the first round. I had given Arkansas up for dead.

by Truzenzuzex on Mar 22, 2008 8:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Congrats Hilltoppers!

My 5-year-old son and I were screaming and jumping when that shot went down. It was great to finally have something to cheer about after watching the Cats go down and my alma mater fall just short of taking down Duke (like I needed another reason to hate them).

Go, WKU! Long may you ride!

by expatwildcat on Mar 22, 2008 9:27 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Bid-A-Team And Pick 8 Upsets

I have an annual Bidding / Betting contest with my lawyer (who is HUGE UNC fan and Friend of MJ) and his colleagues.

I bid and got 5 teams. 4 of them won.

I picked 8 upsets (high seeded teams) to W. 7 of them won.

by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 22, 2008 9:44 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Tipton drives me crazy

Even when he writes a positive article he still manages to throw in things that make me nuts!Today's Lexington Herald online:

"What he couldn't foresee were the injuries, many of which seemed self-inflicted by a coach hellbent to instill toughness. (All first-year coaches want to put their stamp on the program.) A concussion, two broken noses and three stress fractures made some wonder about Gillispie's methods."

Will someone please explain to that man that CBC did not cause anyone's stress fractures! I got a stress fracture from standing incorrectly on ladders while we were painting our house. But I am sure if Tipton heard about it, it would blame that on Billy Clyde too.

by cat woman on Mar 22, 2008 11:20 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

John Clay drives me crazy.

I don't get the anti-Tipton stuff around here; his articles are reportage. Considering how many fans were going nuts blaming the losses on BCG's tough & same-day practices, it would be remiss of him not to mention it in a summary article. And I see nothing in his phrasing that indicates snark or bias. Compared to John Clay & Mark Story, both of whom typically write opinion pieces, I find Tipton far more balanced and palatable.

by CW on Mar 22, 2008 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I am non-conflict oriented

Let's face it, there is no such thing as true unbiased journalism, and every writer is going to offend a percentage of readers. He may be a great person, but IMO, Tipton often comes across as being critical of our team and our coach.

Personally, I see a coach who brought heart, hustle and pride back to UK basketball. Who turned talented but apathetic players into impassioned winners, and turned some not-so-talented players into productive and valued team members. I had grown numb watching Tubby ball, wondering how 23,000 screaming fans could know every game was a must-win, and yet players who were not only getting a free college education and a chance to play for the most storied program in basketball, but also the potential opportunity to write their own ticket to a multi-million dollar pro career, could play with so little apparent commitment.

IMO, CBC has given Kentuckians back the game and they type of team they love, and I hate to see reporters or anyone else blame him for player injuries.

Hey, but it's just an opinion.

by cat woman on Mar 22, 2008 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Honestly

They all drive me crazy at times. BUT, I believe that Tipton most of all lately. He seems bent on proving that Coach G was way to tough on the guys. But honestly, if I am not mistaken both Clay and Tipton are Kentucky guys meaning they grew up in Kentucky or at least lived there forever. The hardest thing in the world I would think is to be unbiased when it comes to Kentucky and many believe that Coach G's toughness was was we had so many injuries. So maybe that is where Tipton is coming from. I don't know. But in general I think he is a good writer as they all are. I dont' get much Kentucky news down here so that is where I go to get my news. I enjoy reading them but I do wish Tipton would stop talking about it. Pitino was just as tough on these guys.

by tenken on Mar 22, 2008 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Cats greeting last night?

Anybody go to welcome our Cats back home? How'd it go?

by CW on Mar 22, 2008 12:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

2007 UK Team > 2008 UK Team

http://www.kenpom.com/rpi.php?y=2007 #13 RPI, 14 W vs Top 100 RPI teams, #1 SOS overall. 22-12 with 1 W and 1 L in NCAA.

http://www.kenpom.com/rpi.php #57 RPI, 7 W vs Top 100 RPI teams, #19 SOS overall. 18-13 with 1 L in NCAA.

I happy for both new coaches in their current spots.

But I don't see 2008 as better than 2007 results.

I understand why (injuries) but 2007 > 2008, I think.

by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 22, 2008 12:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Better per capita

I think the 2008 team was better per capita than the 2007 team. Basically for every slot we had, everyone was better. All the players who were on both teams (and not injured) were better. Patterson was a good replacement for Morris. The problem was, we didn't have anyone in the pipeline to replace seniors Bobby Perry, Sheray Thomas and Woo. Stevenson did a great job replacing one of these slots, but you really need to have more than 2 big men (1 at the end of the season with Patterson down) who can actually play and not be a liability on defense.

The 2007 did have one edge over the 2008 team: one Jodie Meeks. But I as I've said before, the 2008 team needed balance most, not a 4th 2-guard.

So really, per capita, I think 2008 was better. And they played better as a team. They were just short-staffed. Not only, as you say, due to injuries, but even more so due to lack of experience in the 4/5 slot.

So many times this year, I thought "What would I do to have a Woo on this team?" Really, I think having even one Woo-caliber player on our 2008 team would have just been huge.

So yeah, reluctantly, 2007 was better than 2008. They won 1 game in the NCAA tournament to 0 for this years team, which is the most important metric. I think the 2008 team gave MORE EFFORT, and MORE HEART and comparing them to another team that had all the advantages and just underachieved, really diminishes the heart the 2008 team showed, IMHO.

by EEWildcat on Mar 22, 2008 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Neither Met UK Standards

Win 3 of 4 games AT LEAST, 4 of 5 BETTER.

Win 25 games AT LEAST, 30 W even BETTER.

Legion replaced Perry.
Stewart replaced Thomas.
Carter/Williams replaced Obrzut.

(Carter DNP in 2007 due to shoulder injury)

Clearly 2008 had more heart than any UK team since 2003, maybe since 1998.

by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 22, 2008 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nope

Legion was a 2 guard, so he didn't replace Bobby Perry, who was a 3/4.

Stewart played 6 minutes per game. Thomas played 19. Clearly not enough minutes to be considered a replacement.

Carter/Willams played 2.5 minutes per game combined. And most of these were "the game doesn't matter" minutes. Might as well include Kerry Benson and Mark Krebs, and you still don't get the 7.4 minutes per game that Obrzut played. Again, not quite enough to replace the lost skill.

But still, if you think we weren't hurting for depth at the 4/5 slots this year, you weren't watching the same team playing that the rest of us were. Let's be honest.

by EEWildcat on Mar 22, 2008 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

DNP-CD But Those 4 Players Were Replaced

Legion replaced Perry on the wing.

Carter/Williams replaced Woo as back-up center(s).

Stewart replaced Thomas at forward.

Legion quit. The others rarely played.

DNP-CD on those.

by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 23, 2008 12:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't know...

This is going to be my last reply on this topic, FourtyYearCatFan, because clearly we are living in parallel universes connected only in this message board, and any further attempts at reconciliation are destined for futility. And that's okay. Please don't take this the wrong way, but one of us is clearly trapped in a bad Star Trek episode. :) So smile, this is supposed to be funny.

But just so you see where I'm coming from, let's communicate and I'll tell you what my universe is like.

In my universe, Alex Legion is a 6'4" "pure shooter" 2 guard. Bobby Perry is a 6'8" 3/4 combo forward. In my universe, you can't fill a 4 post position slot with a "pure shooter" 2-guard.

In my universe, Woo was capable of, and did put in quality minutes in the 4/5 slot his last 2 years. Carter and Williams have a lot of potential, but haven't been ready to contribute yet at this point in their careers. That is not a knock on these players, they're just not ready.

In my universe, we had to play a point guard (Derrick Jasper) at the 4 slot at times, because Stewart, Carter, and Williams were just not ready to play yet (or in your parlance, DNP-CD). Again, not a knock on these players, 2 of 3 are freshmen, and Carter obviously has some medical history.

In my universe, there was very clearly an experience deficit at the 4/5 slot for the 2007-2008 season. We only had one player in the 4 or 5 slot returning that had any meaningful experience (freshman Perry Stevenson at less than 10 minutes per game). This left us very thin in the 4/5 slot (that joke just never gets old).

In my universe, you tend not to have a lot of success in the regular season in the NCAA tournament unless you have at least three 4/5 slot players: two to start and a substitute that you can go to for quality minutes. Those slots are especially prone to foul trouble and injury, so you really need to have some reserves in case of emergency. The 2007 team, for instance, had 4 such players: Perry, Morris, Thomas, and Woo (5 if you count freshman Stevenson who played well at the beginning of the year). Yeah, there are some gimmicky 4 guard lineups that people play, but they tend not to have extended success in comparison. Even at the beginning of the season, with freshman Patrick Patterson, we didn't have these 3. Again, not a knock on any of our players, there was just no third player ready, and our second best post player, Stevenson, was barely prepared.

Anyway, have a happy Easter! ... communications ... between ... universes ... breaking ... up....

by EEWildcat on Mar 23, 2008 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Replaced ON THE ROSTER

Ramon Harris played Perry's minutes at WF.

http://www.bigbluehistory.net/bb/Statistics/Players/Obrzut_Lukasz.html Your memory of Woo may be different but mine is similar to his stats.

Stewart is a very capable F who DNP-CD often but showed he CAN play when he was in the games.

I don't recall Jasper playing PF but he is a 1, 2, or 3 (just like he was in HS and AAU play).

by FortyYearCatFan on Mar 23, 2008 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

LOL!

by Ken Howlett on Mar 24, 2008 2:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

So, just curious

Does that mean you'll be cheering for UT, based on conference loyalty?

(I don't mind either way, but as a UT guy I'd like to know where you stand.)

by hooper on Mar 22, 2008 1:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I will

I'm definitely cheering for UT based on conference loyalty. Cheered for Florida the past two years too after UK was eliminated. At least my group of friends is even more enthusiastic in the football post-season. I will admit the UT football team is the hardest to cheer for, though. 8')

by EEWildcat on Mar 22, 2008 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs