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Friday Morning Open Thread

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It's Friday, and it's my day to play "beat the crowd" for Christmas shopping.  So this moring, I go forth to shop.

But before I do, I want to point out a few things to discuss.  The first is this piece by Mark Story trying which former UK coach they will be pulling for this weekend when the Minnesota Golden Gophers and the Louisville Cardinals face off in Phoenix Stadium.

For more on the game, be sure to visit the SB Nation blogs of the two principal antagonists, the Daily Gopher for Minnesota and the Card Chronicle for Louisville.

You know this calls for a poll of the Big Blue Nation, which you will find below.  OK, 'Cat fans -- who ya with on this one?

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Next, there is this story from WKYT that Patrick Patterson has been named to the Naismith Trophy watch list.  Most analysts will tell you that Tyler Hansbrough's name already reserved for this season, although Stephen Curry may have something to say about that.  Perhaps Patterson as well, if UK's guards can ever see their way clear to getting him the basketball more than occasionally.

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Finally, I want to leave you with something we haven't engaged in for a while around here -- a little Duke loathing.  The other day I was bumping around the Internet and ran into Turtle Soup, an excellent Maryland Terrapins blog.

At the top of the blog, there is a link to something called "The Anti-Duke Manifesto," which is perhaps the most exhaustive and cogent explanation of reasons to loathe the Blue Devils that I have yet read anywhere.  I warn you, this is a really long piece, but it reads very well and hits the pro- and con- Duke arguments, and approaches the issue from an almost academic viewpoint.  It's a nice piece of work, but make sure you have more than a few minutes left in your lunch hour before trying to take it all in one bite.

Poll
Who are you rooting for this weekend in the game between the Louisville Cardinals and the Minnesota Golden Gophers -- Tubby Smith or Rick Pitino.
Rick Pitino
88 votes
Tubby Smith
281 votes
Alfred E. Neuman
11 votes
May a diseased camel drag his private parts through both of their morning coffees.
112 votes

492 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs  |  Comment 57 comments |

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Comments

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Interesting Dichotmy Between Tubby And Pitino

Pitino’s two worst years were his first two. (36-20, 64%) Fans were happy.

Tubby’s two worst years were his last two. (44-25, 64%) Fans were not happy.

Pitino’s two best years were his last two. (69-7, NCAA title) Fans were happy.

Tubby’s two best years were his first two. (63-13, NCAA title) Fans were happy.

Fans are mad because Pitino left. He averaged 27 W and won 1 NCAA title, 2 (or 3) SEC titles, and 5 SECT championships at UK.

Fans are mad because Tubby stayed. He averaged 26 W and won 1 NCAA title, 5 SEC titles, and 5 SECT championships at UK.

Both are in better places FOR THEM now. Pitino is an Easterner and the B-East is perfect for him. Tubby coaches a style of basketball that is a natural in Big 10 play.

by FortyYearCatFan on Dec 19, 2008 10:55 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Interesting..

Tubby’s 2 best years came riding the coattails of Pitino… thanks for pointing that out.

Pitino put UK back on the map.. UK was the dominate program when Pitino left… Tubby road his coattails for a couple years but eventually led UK to national insignificance…

by MyBloodRunsBlue on Dec 19, 2008 3:47 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh dear god...

…here we go again…

by BBallSophist on Dec 19, 2008 3:55 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Dear god

I surely hope not!

by kykat51 on Dec 19, 2008 4:21 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Those Are His 2 Best Years

And Pitino has been nowhere close to his 2 best years (1996 and 97) ever again.

Tubby came CLOSE in 2003-04-05 with 87-15 record, best in all of Div i basketball.

by FortyYearCatFan on Dec 19, 2008 4:26 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm still laughing

At the choices in the poll, obviously I voted for option 4, even though I don’t despise Smith, just don’t want to hear all the crap this year about him being undefeated and beating Louisville. I don’t know if anyone caught the morning CJ’s article on Tubby’s undefeated start, but I find it comical. Their schedule has been weaker than dishwater. They beat Virginia, whoopty whoop. Just like they started off so great last year and ended up in the Not In Tournament. As overrated as I think Louisville is, I think they trounce an even more overrated Gopher squad.

by daniel81 on Dec 19, 2008 11:06 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Young Team, Perfect Schedule

Minnesota was 9-22 the year before he arrived, 77-80 the 5 years before.

29-14 since he arrived. The turnaround is quite good. No doubt about it.

Kentucky was 22-12 the year before Gillispie arrived, 131-40 the 5 years before.

25-16 since he arrived. The math is not favorable at this point.

by FortyYearCatFan on Dec 19, 2008 12:08 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

BTW Both Are Better Fits

Gillispie at UK and Tubby at Sota.

I think Gillispie deserves 5 years before we can judge what he’ll do. He’s never coached a team of 100% his own recruits before.

Tubby coached his own (100%) recruits from 2003 thru 2007 but not before then (or since).

by FortyYearCatFan on Dec 19, 2008 12:30 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Better fits

I dont think i’ver ever heard you say that before.

Please tell me again.

DEEETROIT BASKETBALLL!!!

by davw83 on Dec 19, 2008 12:57 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

All 3 Are Better Fits

Pitino at Louisville. Tubby at Minnesota. And Gillispie at UK.

Results for Pitino at U of L are very good. And pretty good for Tubby at Sota.

Incomplete for Gillispie at UK. Looks promising but not there (yet).

by FortyYearCatFan on Dec 19, 2008 2:04 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks

I couldnt remember.

DEEETROIT BASKETBALLL!!!

by davw83 on Dec 19, 2008 2:44 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I would have to say

although Pitino is dead to me, not for leaving but for bringing his giant ego back to the state and I would NOT want him back, The best “fits” of all of these is Ricky and UK.

Pulled positive “K-like” love form the media, could sell flies to crap and kept the nut bag UK fanbase happy and had built what would have been the closest thing to UCLA’s run in modern times.

He himself has said this in one of his books, a business speaking engagement I attended, at least one TV interview I have watched and at least 3 printed articles I have read.

I think some of the negative towards him is that we all knew it, he knew it and he is now a card.

I will say that past is past and reality is in our face so on those terms, these are the best possible fits. Of the 3, I think Tubby at sota is the best fit, Rick at LU second and BCG here.

Changing how you think will change what you think.

by wilson452 on Dec 19, 2008 2:44 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I've Read It Both Ways From RP

He Liked UK Best and He Likes Louisville Better.

Who knows?

by FortyYearCatFan on Dec 19, 2008 3:11 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I agee with you

but dude how many times are you going to say it?

WE KNOW ALREADY.

DEEETROIT BASKETBALLL!!!

by davw83 on Dec 19, 2008 5:00 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

agreed

sounds like a broken record that needs to be BROKEN for good..!

Steelers fan 1st! UK is my 2nd love.

by vinceuk1 on Dec 19, 2008 4:29 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

UK Not For Everyone

And 10 years is plenty for ANYONE.

Gillispie will be gone by 2018 too.

by FortyYearCatFan on Dec 19, 2008 4:32 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

sure he will Forty

you seem to know everything… NOT

Steelers fan 1st! UK is my 2nd love.

by vinceuk1 on Dec 19, 2008 4:33 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't disagree with him on this one

Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."

by chirop1 on Dec 19, 2008 4:36 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Lighten up ...

Francis Vince. :-)

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Dec 19, 2008 5:42 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

So, it's NOT free speech..

…(see Ken Pomeroy)

Steelers fan 1st! UK is my 2nd love.

by vinceuk1 on Dec 19, 2008 6:22 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: vince

No, Pomeroy was attacking, in a personal way, DeAndre Liggins. Which is not allowed here.

by Ken Howlett on Dec 19, 2008 8:52 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Tru

LOL!

“If any of you’s touch my stuff … I’ll kill ya” — One of my favorite scenes from any movie.

by Ken Howlett on Dec 19, 2008 8:50 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

LOL

I loved Stripes…….“any of you guys touch my stuff…and i’ll kill ya”///good stuff :)

" I believe in pipedreams"

by Magnoliacat on Dec 19, 2008 9:45 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Did the best he could

with what he had when he came here last year, especially considering all the injuries we had last year.

by gright on Dec 19, 2008 12:31 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

True - Injuries Hurt

But the 5-7 OOC record was not so much related to injuries as poor coaching.

by FortyYearCatFan on Dec 19, 2008 2:02 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

of course the math is not favorable..

not an easy task to clean up the mess Tubby left.

by MyBloodRunsBlue on Dec 19, 2008 3:49 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

No Such Mess

Baloney. UK roster in 2008 had talent. It was the coaching seat that failed during OOC play and in postseason play.

by FortyYearCatFan on Dec 19, 2008 4:27 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

post season

I think it was the ankle of one Patrick Patterson that failed in post season play.

DEEETROIT BASKETBALLL!!!

by davw83 on Dec 19, 2008 4:56 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

UK Shouldn't Have Need His Ankle To Beat Georgia In SECT

Gillispie has a losing (below .500) record in postseason tournaments that must improve.

by FortyYearCatFan on Dec 20, 2008 9:13 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

There were extenuating circumstances in the SECT last year...

…what with tornadoes and such. Plus Georgia played well above their heads last year. Don’t forget that they won the SECT. UK wasn’t the only team that should’ve beaten Georgia in the tournament last year. What for a crazy 3-pointer by a guy who statistically had no business hitting the shot, we would have beaten Georgia.

Still, you’re right that his postseason record must improve, but I’m not as critical of losing to Georgia last year in that crazy situation.

by BBallSophist on Dec 21, 2008 4:13 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Both Teams Were Tornadoed

The L to Georgia should have been W regardless.

by FortyYearCatFan on Dec 21, 2008 5:36 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Well, no.

Georgia played the better basketball game. Hence, they won. Ipso facto.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Dec 21, 2008 6:09 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

UK Was > Georgia Last Year

The L in SECT was one that should not have been.

Georgia W but UK was the better team overall.

by FortyYearCatFan on Dec 22, 2008 10:36 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

There were approximately 11 SEC teams better than Georgia last year...

But they won the tourney. Sometimes that happens.

Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."

by chirop1 on Dec 22, 2008 10:48 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Most Disappointing L All Year

Even mire than those OOC games.

UK was > Georgia but not that night.

by FortyYearCatFan on Dec 22, 2008 11:31 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The lose to Georgia..

..did not surprise me in the least.

UK was a good match up for Georgia…
We had played 2 very close, low scoring games in regular season, (winning both) with Patterson…
We did not have Patterson in that game…
We were presumed in the tourney (so is wasn’t do or die)…
They were playing for everything in that tourney and it showed…

And the tornado that hit ..?? UK, for the most part is one of the elite in college basketball. Everything is always black & white. Everything is always planned to the exact minute.

I think it indeed effected UK more then Georgia. The tornado was a disruption to the flow, a “gray” area if you will…

no, that lose did not surprise me in the least…

Steelers fan 1st! UK is my 2nd love.

by vinceuk1 on Dec 22, 2008 12:09 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

It Surprised Me

Missing Patterson hurt but UK had enough left to beat a team like Georgia.

The 2000 team lost to Ark team in SECT that should have been W. Likewise 2002 lost to USC in SECT when it should have W the game.

by FortyYearCatFan on Dec 22, 2008 1:44 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

if you simply take Patterson's 16 ppg...

…and considering that the game went to OT, then yea, we could have really used Patterson’s (points) in that game, (not to mention his rpg)…

But we lost without him, not with him in 3 games against Georgia…

3 very tough, physical, low scoring games…

Steelers fan 1st! UK is my 2nd love.

by vinceuk1 on Dec 22, 2008 1:55 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Not in that game.

Plus, Georgia was playing better than anyone in that tournament, as evidenced by their victory.

UK may have been better on paper, but not in Atlanta.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Dec 22, 2008 6:56 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

UK Should Have Beaten Georgia In 2008

Just like UK should have beaten Arkansas in 2000.

Both Cat teams had depleted rosters but had enough to W those games.

by FortyYearCatFan on Dec 22, 2008 7:28 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

we know , we know...

UK should have beaten Georgia… You’ve mentioned that 6 times…
What is your argument..?

Steelers fan 1st! UK is my 2nd love.

by vinceuk1 on Dec 22, 2008 11:28 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Halfway through the manifesto

Some good points.

Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."

by chirop1 on Dec 19, 2008 11:29 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

UK fans

should kiss Pitino’s butt even if it is red… how ungratefull can fans be??? Pitino put UK back on the map.. UK was the dominate program when Pitino left… multiple Final Fours.. he should get most of the credit for th 98 title.. Tubby road his coattails for a couple years but eventually led UK to national insignificance; the choice is obvious…

by MyBloodRunsBlue on Dec 19, 2008 3:53 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I couldn't disagree more

but you are entitled to your opinion.
UL is our biggest rival so I hope they get stomped. If Pitino was at any other school, I’d probably wish him well.

by cthom on Dec 19, 2008 4:22 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I respect both Tubby and Pitino

This blog has heard all this back and forth so many times. Keep your opinion but let’s not have another hashing of opinions here on these 2 coaches. It’s in the past.
I would love to see Tubby best Pitino in this game, just because of my dislike for Louisville and I would feel the same way no matter who was coach at Louisville or Minnesota…beat Louisville.

by kykat51 on Dec 19, 2008 4:28 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Pitino Recruiting Dropped WAY Off In 1996, 97, 98

Mu Evans, Jamaal Magloire, Michael Bradley, Ryan Hogan, Myron Anthony, JP Blevins, Jaron Brown.

Compared to Ron Mercer, Wayne Turner, Antoine Walker, Scott Padgett, Nazr Mohammed, Allen Edwards, Jeff Sheppard, et al.

by FortyYearCatFan on Dec 19, 2008 4:29 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Actually Not So Dominant

1990-97, UK won 1 NCAA title and made 3 FF.

1990-97, so did Arkansas.

Duke won 2 NCAA and made 5 FF in those 8 years.

UNC won 1 NCAA and made 4 FF in those 8 years.

by FortyYearCatFan on Dec 19, 2008 4:31 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Pitino

UK fans should kiss no one’s butt. This isnt Providence that he led to such a successfull run its THE UNIVERSITY OF KENTUCKY. The school and fanbase undoubtedly had something to do with such success. He could not have accomplished this at somewhere other than a program of UK,UNC,UCLA,or Kansas stature. He provided UK with their sixth national championship. UK provided him with his first.

DEEETROIT BASKETBALLL!!!

by davw83 on Dec 19, 2008 4:58 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

"UK provided him with his first."

And only.

Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."

by chirop1 on Dec 19, 2008 5:34 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Uhm... yeah right..

Pitino earned his. From probation to the king of the hill… Tubby simply rode Pitino’s coattails. Pitino has been to 5 Final Fours with 3 different teams. Tubby is a fine coach but certainly not in the elite class that Pitino is in.

by MyBloodRunsBlue on Dec 19, 2008 6:07 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Whatever

You’re not going to change peoples mind about Tubby or Pitino. It’s already been discussed to death. Pitino and Tubby are both elite coaches and will most likely have success wherever they go.

by cthom on Dec 19, 2008 6:27 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Agree on that

Both are elite coaches.

by kykat51 on Dec 19, 2008 6:38 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Both Were Better Coaches In The 1990's

Pitino has 2 Sweet 16 and 1 FF appearance in 7 years at Louisville in the 2K’s.

He had 5 and 3 (respectively) in 8 years during the 90’s at UK.

Tubby has 4 Sweet 16 in 2K’s but had 5 Sweet 16 and 1 FF in the 90’s.

He has done better than P in the 2K’s but neither has done as well as they did in 90’s.

by FortyYearCatFan on Dec 20, 2008 9:16 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Earned

No one said he didnt earn it. Dont just make crap up.

IMO Pitino doesnt get that championship unless he comes to UK. He may have earned it but he did it with resources he wouldnt have anywhere else. It’s because of this that UK fans owe him nothing. He profited from UK’s success as much as the school did so UK owes him nothing.

DEEETROIT BASKETBALLL!!!

by davw83 on Dec 19, 2008 6:56 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Pitino

Is a liar… i hate liars.

" I believe in pipedreams"

by Magnoliacat on Dec 19, 2008 9:47 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Harris

I just posted a fan shot. Foxsports is reporting that Harris returned to practice today at freedom hall. Billy G is waiting until tommorow to decide whether or not he is healthy enough to play in the game.

DEEETROIT BASKETBALLL!!!

by davw83 on Dec 19, 2008 7:12 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Good News

about Harris,thanks for the heads-up davw83.

by -Zoso- on Dec 19, 2008 7:31 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

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