SEC Basketball: A statistical look at the teams and players

by Ken Howlett on Dec 16, 2008 4:54 AM EST in Basketball Comment 72 comments

I realize it's still early in the year, but most SEC teams have played eight to ten games, so I thought this was a good time to see where UK stands within the conference. And also, how Kentucky stacks up against their upcoming opponents.

We begin with a look at the SEC team rankings, followed by player rankings, and finally, a synopsis of each team's year so far.

SEC Team Rankings

SCORING OFFENSE

1. Tennessee - 85.2 7. Mississippi - 76.7

2. LSU - 82.0 8. Miss. State - 76.1

3. South Carolina - 81.6 9. Alabama - 70.8

4. Arkansas - 79.9 10. Auburn - 70.6

5. Kentucky - 78.1 11. Vanderbilt - 68.0

6. Florida - 78.0 12. Georgia - 62.8

SCORING DEFENSE

1. LSU - 55.6 t6. Florida - 64.3

2. Georgia - 60.3 8. Auburn - 64.8

3. Vanderbilt - 61.2 9. Kentucky - 65.5

4. Alabama - 62.8 10. Arkansas - 68.1

5. Miss. State - 63.1 11. Mississippi - 72.0

t6. South Carolina - 64.3 12. Tennessee - 73.4

FIELD GOAL %

1. Kentucky - 50.3 7. Miss. State - 45.6

2. Florida - 47.9 8. Mississippi - 44.9

3. LSU - 47.7 9. Auburn - 44.0

4. Tennessee - 47.1 10. Vanderbilt - 43.9

5. South Carolina - 46.2 11. Alabama - 41.7

6. Arkansas - 46.1 12. Georgia - 41.3

FIELD GOAL % DEFENSE

1. LSU - 32.5 7. Auburn - 40.8

2. Miss. State - 35.4 8. Georgia - 41.1

3. Vanderbilt - 36.6 9. Arkansas - 41.8

4. Alabama - 36.9 10. Mississippi - 42.8

5. Kentucky - 37.1 11. Tennessee - 43.8

6. South Carolina - 38.7 12. Florida - 44.8

THREE-POINT FG %

1. LSU - 42.4 7. Tennessee - 34.0

2. South Carolina - 40.3 8. Vanderbilt - 32.5

3. Mississippi - 39.1 9. Georgia - 31.7

t4. Miss. State - 36.5 10. Auburn - 31.6

t4. Arkansas - 36.5 11. Kentucky - 30.7

6. Florida - 35.3 12. Alabama - 28.3

THREE-POINT % DEFENSE

1. Alabama - 26.5 t5. Kentucky - 32.0

2. LSU - 27.5 8. Miss. State - 32.3

3. South Carolina - 29.0 9. Arkansas - 34.1

4. Georgia - 29.7 10. Auburn - 37.1

t5. Tennessee - 32.0 11. Florida - 38.0

t5. Mississippi - 32.0 12. Vanderbilt - 38.8

REBOUNDING MARGIN

1. LSU - +15.4 7. Alabama - +3.4

2. Arkansas - +12.0 8. Georgia - +3.1

3. Tennessee - +11.0 9. Vanderbilt - +2.6

4. Kentucky - +8.2 10. Florida - +1.4

5. South Carolina - +6.7 11. Mississippi - -2.6

6. Miss. State - +5.4 12. Auburn - -2.6

TURNOVER MARGIN

1. Florida - +5.8 7. LSU- +.6

2. South Carolina - +5.0 8. Arkansas - -1.4

3. Auburn - +4.0 9. Tennessee - -.5

4. Georgia - +2.8 10. Vanderbilt - -2.0

5. Alabama - +1.8 11. Miss. State - -2.3

6. Mississippi - +1.1 12. Kentucky - -4.2

SEC Player Rankings

SCORING PER GAME

1. Jodie Meeks (UK) - 21.9

2. David Huertas (UM) - 20.6

3. Chris Warren (UM) - 20.2

4. Devan Downey (USC) - 19.6

5. Patrick Patterson (UK) - 17.6

When was the last time UK ended the season with two of the top five scorers in the SEC? Arkansas freshmen, and former UK targets Courtney Fortson and Rotnei Clarke are averaging 15.4 and 14.3 points per game, respectively.

REBOUNDS PER GAME

1. Jarvis Varnado (MSU) - 10.5

2. Michael Washington (ARK) - 10.4

3. Mike Holmes (USC) - 9.3

4. Patrick Patterson (UK) - 9.1

5. Chris Johnson (LSU) - 8.1

Arkansas freshman, and former UK target Michael Sanchez is eighth in the SEC in rebounding with a 7.9 average.

FIELD GOAL %

1. Patrick Patterson (UK) - 71.4

2. Alex Tyus (LSU) - 61.0

3. Korvotney Barber (AUB) - 58.2

4. Jeffery Taylor (VU) - 52.9

5. David Huertas (UM) - 52.8

Arkansas freshman Courtney Fortson is sixth in the SEC in field goal percentage at 51.4%.

ASSISTS PER GAME

1. Nick Calathes (UF) - 6.7

2. Courtney Fortson (ARK) - 6.4

3. Bobby Maze (UT) - 4.9

4. Tyler Smith (UT) - 4.63

5. Dee Bost (MSU) - 4.6

Fortson and Bost are both freshman.

THREE-POINT FIELD GOAL %

1. David Huertas (UM) - 46.8

2. Rotnei Clarke (ARK) - 45.7

3. Brad Tinsley (VU) - 41.1

4. Jodie Meeks (UK) - 36.0

5. Tay Walker (AUB) - 34.3

Clarke and Tinsley are both freshman.

BLOCKED SHOTS PER GAME

1. Jarvis Varnado (MSU) - 6.2

2. Chris Johnson (LSU) - 2.6

3. Perry Stevenson (UK) - 2.5

t4. Patrick Patterson (UK) - 2.0

t4. A.J. Ogilvy (VU)- 2.0

Do you think Gillispie will have his guards drive the lane against Varnado like he did last year?

ASSIST/TURNOVER RATIO

1. Bobby Maze (UT) - 3.9

2. Branden Conrad (USC) - 3.0

3. DeWayne Reed (AUB) - 2.7

t4. Nick Calathes (UF) - 2.1

t4. Garrett Temple (LSU) - 2.1

Maze is a former UK target out of Hutchinson (KS) Junior College.

TEAM NOTES

Alabama - The Tide sit at 6-3 ... they only have one semi-quality win, and that was against St. Josephs (4-5) ... they have losses to 6-3 Mercer (72-69), 4-5 Oregon (92-69), and 8-1 Texas A&M (86-78) ... one-time UK target JaMychal Green (6'9", 225 lb forward) is fourth on the team in scoring at 8.3 points per game (he averages 22.6 minutes per game) ... Green also averages 7.0 rebounds per game.

Arkansas - John Pelphrey's squad have gotten off to a pretty good start at 6-1 ... their one loss was to (5-3) Missouri St. (62-57) ... their best win is versus (6-4) South Alabama (79-77) who happen to be Pelphrey's former employer ... three of Arkansas' top five scorers are freshmen guards: Courtney Fortson (5.4) Rotnei Clarke (14.3), and forward Michael Sanchez (8.7) ... Fortson and Clarke are both playing 30+ minutes per game ... we'll soon know what the Hogs have; they play #4 Oklahoma and #5 Texas before their SEC slate begins.

Auburn - The Tigers have started slowly, which was expected ... they sit at 4-4 ... most of their losses have been close though - 78-74 to (6-3) Mercer, 60-59 to a good (9-1) Dayton team (they beat then #24 Marquette by 14 points), 81-74 to a very good (9-0) Xavier squad ... they also lost to (5-5) Northern Iowa 105-93 ... their best win is against (5-3) Missouri State 75-60.

Florida - Billy Donovan's Gators have started 7-2 ... both losses have been close and to pretty good teams: 89-83 to (9-2) Syracuse, and 57-55 to (9-1) Florida State ... their highest quality win is against (6-3) Washington, 86-84 ... sophomore forward Alex Tyus is helping fill the void left by the departure of Marreese Speights by averaging 13.2 points per game ... Tyus also averages 6.0 rebounds per game ... he shoots 61% from the field ... Donovan has nine players averaging at least 11 minutes per game.

Georgia - Dennis Felton's Bulldogs sit at 6-3 ... they have a couple of bad losses: to (5-5) Loyola, IL by a score of 74-53, and 67-63 to WKU (5-3) ... Illinois (9-1) clobbered Georgia, 76-42 ... the 'dawgs have beaten (5-4) Santa Clara, 54-48, (6-4) Virginia Tech, 67-66, and (0-11) Mississippi Valley State, 98-57 ... former Hopkins County Central star Albert Jackson averages 4.1 points per game, and 4.0 rebounds per game.

LSU - New head coach Trent Johnson (out of Nevada and Stanford) has the Tigers sitting at 7-0 ... the aggregate record of the Tiger victims is 18-40 ... Northwestern State (5-4) is the only team with a winning record that LSU has beaten ... we'll find out soon if LSU's record is a facade or not, they play (8-1) Texas A&M on December 20.

Mississippi - Andy Kennedy's club stands at 7-3 ... they've lost to (5-4) Utah, 83-72 ... West Virginia beat the Rebels 80-78, and Steve Alford's (6-4) New Mexico squad "layed the wood" to 'em 103-70 ... Mississippi's best wins are against (6-4) South Alabama 89-71, and (7-2) Arkansas State, 65-62 ... 53% of Ole Miss' scoring comes from two players: Guards, David Huertas (20.6) and Chris Warren (20.2) ... together the duo attempts 14 three-point shots per game ... Ole Miss plays U of L on December 18.

Mississippi State - Rick Stansbury's squad has began the season at 7-3 ... they've lost to (7-3) Washington State, 63-52, (7-2) Texas Tech, 77-73, and (3-6) Charlotte, 70-64 ... the Bulldog's best win is against (5-3) St. Bonaventure, 76-71 ... former UK recruit Romero Osby, a 6'8", 230 lb forward, is averaging 7.4 points per game and 4.0 rebounds ... former Ballard High School star Twany Beckham is playing an average of 11.4 minutes per game ... the 6'5" ,190 lb guard is averaging 4.0 points and 1.6 assists per game ... Dee Bost, a freshman point guard, is averaging 27.2 minutes per game ... Bost averages 9.5 points, and nearly five assists per game ... Stansbury is playing 11 players at least 11 minutes per game ... MSU will be tested versus ((7-2) Cincinnati on December 18, and they play (5-3) Western Kentucky on January 5.

South Carolina - New coach, and former WKU head man Darrin Horn has started out well, posting a 6-1 mark ... SC's only loss is to College of Charleston, 82-80 ... they don't really have a quality win, but they did beat (2-7) Gardner-Webb 85-70, to go along with (2-6) Princeton, 84-58 ... point guard Devan Downey has started strong ... he's averaging 19.6 points per game, nearly five assists per game and 3.0 steals ... the Gamecocks will be tested soon ... they take on #25 Clemson, and travel to Waco to play #24 Baylor.

Tennessee - Bruce Pearl has UT sitting at 8-2 ... the Vols have lost to then #10 (7-1) Gonzaga, 83-74, and at (5-3) Temple, 88-72 ... their best win is versus (7-1) Georgetown, 90-78 ... they've also beaten (4-4) Middle Tennessee, 76-66 ... University Heights star Scotty Hopson has a pretty impressive stat line: 20.6 minutes per game, 9.5 points per game, and he's made 50% of this three-point attempts ... former UK recruit Bobby Maze is also playing well: 26.8 minutes per game, 9.3 points, 4.9 assists, and he's shooting 49% from the field ... UT has #23 Marquette (8-1), @ Kansas (7-2), and (7-1)Gonzaga (again) coming up on their schedule.

Vanderbilt - Vandy comes in at 6-3 ... they've lost to (9-1) Illinois, 69-63 ... (6-2) Illinois-Chicago bested the Commodores 74-5, and (5-2) Georgia Tech beat them 63-51 ... their best victory is over (6-3) Virginia Commonwealth, 71-66 ... they also own wins over (3-7) Morehead State, 74-48, and (4-4) Middle Tennessee, 65-57 ... head coach Kevin Stallings has two freshman contributing: Swedish wing player Jeffery Taylor (6'7") is averaging 28 minutes per game ... he's averaging 13.8 points per game (second on the team), and 6.3 rebounds ... he shoots 53% from the floor ... 6'3" guard Brad Tinsley averages 31.3 minutes per game ... he's averaging 11.2 points per game (third on the team), 3.0 rebounds and 2.5 assists per game.

Thanks for reading, and Go 'Cats!

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Comments

Yes it is early

But UK is shooting over 50% and holding opponents to 37%.Those numbers are very impressive.Take better care of the ball and we could be good team come March.

by -Zoso- on Dec 16, 2008 5:52 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Agreed. Without changing Turnover stat, I see us losing 6-7 SEC games. Improve that one stat and

we could possibly win the SEC.

by Blueobsessed on Dec 16, 2008 8:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The simple solution

Turnovers are not a problem you can just get rid of. I would be very surprised if our turnover issues to last the entire year. Turnovers have been a huge problem during Gillispie’s entire time here at UK, and I imagine that will continue until we get some guys in here that can both handle the ball and value its possession.

Does Rondo have any more eligibility?

by #3 on Dec 17, 2008 2:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Entire time

G’s entire time so far is one season and ten games.

While I dont see the turnover problem getting loads better this year I dont think the turnover issue is a problem because of the billie gillespie era.

DEEETROIT BASKETBALLL!!!

by davw83 on Dec 17, 2008 2:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I was misunderstood.

I didn’t mean to suggest that turnovers were a problem brought on by Gillispie. It is a problem brought on by the players he’s had since he’s been here. My point was that it isn’t likely to go away as the season progresses.

by #3 on Dec 17, 2008 2:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I think ...

… we can do just fine with 15-16 turnovers a game. 20 is going to be tough.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Dec 17, 2008 4:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

nit picking

Ken,you left out LSU in the scoring offense stat.

by -Zoso- on Dec 16, 2008 5:57 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

He must have been counting

1 Mississippi, 2 Mississppi…… since they are in there twice.

Very interesting how many freshmen are making considerable contributions this year for the SEC. Due to a lack talented upper classmen, or an influx talented freshmen? Or both? Maybe freshmen tend to flourish against weaker non-conference competition?

I saw Huertas play a couple of times at Marshall County HoopFest, where he played well. He seems to have finally settled in for Kennedy now, when apparently he didn’t mesh well with Donovan.

by racercat98 on Dec 16, 2008 7:32 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

No that's not nit-picking ...

… but I have corrected the problem. LSU is second at 82 ppg.

Thanks for pointing out the maistake.

by Ken Howlett on Dec 16, 2008 10:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It's funny to me...

…that the stats seem to indicate that we’re a more offensively capable team than defensively capable, which most definitely is not the case. I think maybe the numbers are probably pretty skewed in favor of the other teams because, at this point, our out of conference schedule has been notably tougher than nearly every other team in the SEC, except for possibly Tennessee.

by BBallSophist on Dec 16, 2008 8:34 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I noticed that too...

I know this may not make sense but if UK turned it over less I bet the shooting percentages would go down. In other words, more shots would probably equate to more misses.

by SevenRings on Dec 16, 2008 8:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Don't Discount...

… what allowing 111 points, 14 threes and 49% shooting to VMI will do to skew your overall numbers.

The Heart & Mind of the Big Blue Nation ...

by JL Blue on Dec 16, 2008 1:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Man, there is some aweful 3 pt shooting in the conference

Meeks is 4th at 36%? Yech.

"That's not a Sherman tank, it's Frank Thomas!" - Monkeyball

by JLeverenz on Dec 16, 2008 10:17 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

The SEC Is Weaker Than Last Year

And UK is stronger. Since UK was 12-4 last year, I’d expect AT LEAST 12-4 this year.

by FortyYearCatFan on Dec 16, 2008 10:37 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Correction to Assists per game

You can move Dee Bost back to MSU.
ASSISTS PER GAME

1. Nick Calathes (UF) – 6.7

2. Courtney Fortson (ARK) – 6.4

3. Bobby Maze (UT) – 4.9

4. Tyler Smith (UT) – 4.63

5. Dee Bost (MSU)- 4.6

by mstatedawg on Dec 16, 2008 11:31 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Oops ...

… fixed. :-)

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Dec 16, 2008 11:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I mistakenly wrote down Ole Miss in my notes ... thanks for fixing it

by Ken Howlett on Dec 16, 2008 2:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

No problem :-)

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Dec 16, 2008 2:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

# 2 And # 3 Both Recruited By UK But Signed Elsewhere

I think Fortson won MVP at Elite Camp last year. Maze was a late spring recruit.

by FortyYearCatFan on Dec 16, 2008 12:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes, I have that notated.

by Ken Howlett on Dec 16, 2008 2:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry to take him away from Stansbury.

Have you heard how he’s doing? I know he’s in the hospital having tests run to determine the cause of his migraines.

by Ken Howlett on Dec 16, 2008 2:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Just because I hate them

I’m going to disagree with your analysis of Florida. I saw their losses and I wasn’t impressed with them. I don’t think Syracuse makes the tourney and I’m not sure about FSU yet as I’ve only seen them once. I think Billy D peaked two years ago and it’s all downhill from here. I appreciate all the stats. i would like to see how our freshmen stack up against the others in the SEC based on minutes played.

by daniel81 on Dec 16, 2008 11:50 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

FSU ...

… Florida State is SKIMMING by these also-rans. That 9-1 start includes the following:

Jacksonville W 59-57
La Salle W 65-61
Stetson W 79-77
Georgia State W 62-57

… granted a win is a win, but something tells me Va Tech, Duke, UNC and the like MIGHT have better luck than Georgia State did.

The Heart & Mind of the Big Blue Nation ...

by JL Blue on Dec 16, 2008 1:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

FSU got destroyed by Northwestern in the ACC-Big 10 challenge

I watched them in that game and the Florida game. I remain confident that FSU will once again come up just short of an NCAA bid.

"That's not a Sherman tank, it's Frank Thomas!" - Monkeyball

by JLeverenz on Dec 16, 2008 3:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Don't you know ... NW is da bomb this year :)

by Ken Howlett on Dec 16, 2008 3:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

they actually are pretty good this year

KenPom has them 19th right now and has them winning between 12 and 14 games in big 10 play (out of 18).They should should finish with at least 22 wins.

there’s actually a pretty good write up in today’s Chicago Tribune about how good this team may be. Kevin Coble is a name to remember with this NW team.

GO BIG BLUE!! GO BIG BLUE!!

by UKWildCatFanatic on Dec 16, 2008 4:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

NW

What got my attention was their demolitin of Depaul. I realize Depaul is a bottom-feeder Big East team but they beat them something like 63-37.

NW has lost to the best team they’ve played (Butler) by four.

Being NW, I’ll take a wait and see attitude, along with a healthy dose of skepticism. I can remember a few times over the years when NW was supposed to be good, but it never seemed to work out. But of course past failure is not necessarily a good indicator of future results.

by Ken Howlett on Dec 16, 2008 4:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Amazing fact ...

… Northwestern has STILL NEVER been the NCAA tournament.

Ever.

The Heart & Mind of the Big Blue Nation ...

by JL Blue on Dec 17, 2008 10:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

They're GOOD This Year

The coach is from Princeton and he upgraded their talent the past couple of recruiting classes.

Their (no appearances in the) NCAA streak may end this year.

I’ll see them twice – Purdue game and Minnesota game in Evanston.

by FortyYearCatFan on Dec 17, 2008 10:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

They are good.

In fact, my latest analysis has them ranked about 35th in the country. Not bad at all.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Dec 17, 2008 11:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: daniel81

All of these stats should be given taken with a grain of salt. It is still very early, and of course most teams OOC are not tough.

I think you’ve hit on an idea for a future post with your request to see how UK’s freshman stack up against the others based on minutes played.

Two numbers that should be of major concern to Donovan — 44.8 field goal % allowed, and 38% 3-point shooting allowed. Not good!

by Ken Howlett on Dec 16, 2008 2:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Addendum:

I am reticent to be too negative about any team this early in the year, lest it come back and bite me.

Comparatively speaking, Fla. St. and Syracuse are probably better than 90% of the teams that SEC teams have beaten, at least thus far. But that doesn’t mean that either of those teams are really good. I do like Syracuse’s Johhny Flynn and Eric Devendorf, but of course Devendorf is probably finished for the year due to his inablity to stick to the Syracuse student code of conduct. In a loaded Big East they may have a hard time making the Big Dance. Florida St. is probably in the same boat as the Orangemen.

by Ken Howlett on Dec 16, 2008 3:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Good points

But I still hate them(Florida). Can’t we just make up some stats and say they stink? I know it’s not good to hate, but I really, really hate Florida. Much more than I hate Tennessee in basketball now. How do you all see the SEC West this year?

by daniel81 on Dec 16, 2008 3:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

SEC West

Not LSU, Ole Miss, Miss St, Alabama, or Auburn.

I guess that leaves Arkansas on top in SEC West.

by FortyYearCatFan on Dec 16, 2008 3:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Pelphrey is playing a lot of freshman, a lot of minutes, but the West may be his by default

by Ken Howlett on Dec 16, 2008 3:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I think LSU might be at the top

There’s a good chance their defense isn’t a fluke as Pomeroy has them at 36th in the nation in AdjDefEff and they are #1 in eFG% defense. They have some good players and Trent Johnson has shown he can coach, which puts him in the top half of the West with Kennedy and Pelphrey. I think the defense and better players gives them the edge over Arkansas.

BTW, Pomeroy has individual stats up now for each team.

"That's not a Sherman tank, it's Frank Thomas!" - Monkeyball

by JLeverenz on Dec 16, 2008 4:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You may very well be right, but their schedule to this point is by far the worse in the SEC.

I pay no mind to Pomeroy or RPI’s until at least mid to late January after the teams have a chanc to play 4,5, or 6 conference games.

I do like Trent Johnson, though. They definitely upgraded, in a big way, the X and O factor.

It should be an interesting race.

by Ken Howlett on Dec 16, 2008 4:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't pay attention to RPI, but I think it's worth looking at Pomeroy

I mean, this whole post started by looking at season stats to begin with! ;-) I think Pomeroy’s stats are just as credible as the standard per game averages at this point in the season. Actually, I think they are a bit more credible since they are a bit more sophisticated (accounting for pace, etc).

"That's not a Sherman tank, it's Frank Thomas!" - Monkeyball

by JLeverenz on Dec 16, 2008 5:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The RPI ...

… is valuable as well. Just another data point.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Dec 16, 2008 6:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I have to be honest ... I thought Pomeroy assigned a numerical value to a team as a way ...

… to rank them. If he doesn’t do that, then regardless of how early or late in the season, his numbers should be credible. As you can tell I don’t visit the KenPom site very often.

RPI, on the other hand, is a much more accurate gauge of a teams worth, the more games they play, in my opinion. We’ve seen over the last few years mid-major teams with top-10 RPI’s in December fade quickly once their conference play begins. And not because of playing lower rated teams, rather, they lost to teams within their conference.

We’ve also seen the converse; Teams with +200 RPI’s early in the year, who turn out to be very good teams. I just don’t pay any attention to RPI at all until February.

by Ken Howlett on Dec 16, 2008 8:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't believe any of Ken's numbers are assigned arbitrarily

They are the direct result of game numbers and statistical formulas. There’s a pretty decent description of what every number means and how it is calculated on the site.

"That's not a Sherman tank, it's Frank Thomas!" - Monkeyball

by JLeverenz on Dec 16, 2008 10:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Early rankings

SOS plays a huge factor in the early rankings.Then as the season progresses,they start to sort themselves out much like the RPI.

by -Zoso- on Dec 17, 2008 6:09 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I didn't mean to imply that I thought Pom's team rating is arbitrary ...

… only that using such a small sample of data to rate a team this early in the year can be misleading and inaccuate, in my opinion. But I can’t really comment or criticize Pom because I am so unfamiliar with his methods.

But, after having this discussion I will probably visit his site and become better acquainted with his formulas, etc.

by Ken Howlett on Dec 17, 2008 11:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Examples:

At the present time KenPom has these teams ranked: G-town #1, Ohio St. #8, Missouri #10, BYU #11, Clemson #15, and Kansas State #22 (ten spots in front of UK).

As Zoso points out, SOS I am sure plays a big part in where a team is ranked, but I have to question the accuracy (at this point anyway) of a system that ranks the above teams where they are currently rated. This is why I pay no mind to computer rankings until Feb. or so.

by Ken Howlett on Dec 18, 2008 6:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: daniel81

LOL! I feel ya.

Maybe in the future we can have a “Stats we wished they had” edition :)

by Ken Howlett on Dec 16, 2008 3:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I forgot to add underneath the A/TO ratio: Bobby Maze has 39 assists to only 10 turnovers ...

… we’ll see if that ratio holds up, but so far his numbers are impressive.

by Ken Howlett on Dec 16, 2008 4:00 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Maze is looking good

I saw him play some in a UT game earlier this year. He looked very good for a freshman and would be playing a lot of minutes for us. Also Hopson looked very good.

by EEWildcat on Dec 16, 2008 6:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Stats we wished they had

That would be awesome blog post. I like Trent Johnson too. Outside of losing to UK every time they play us, I hope the teams of the SEC end up being better than speculated(Florida excluded) for a number of reasons. Obviously it would help our RPI, which I agree with Tru is credible, and plus I get tired of all the talking heads saying how great the Big East and ACC are every stinking year. Best I remember, the last three titles went Big 12, SEC and SEC. Do you think Western’s old coach at South Carolina can get that team back to the Eddie Fogler days? What was that guard’s name? B.J. Mackie? They were decent for a couple of years, I think they were a number three seed in the tourney once in the 1990s.

by daniel81 on Dec 16, 2008 7:52 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Today's Lexington Herald Leader article.....

….Perimeter Game is Not a Strength This Year

That’s the idea. But it’s becoming increasingly clear that Kentucky needs better perimeter shooting to stretch defenses wise to the Cats’ perimeter struggles.

Interesting…since I have been preaching this from day one and have had numerous ‘arguments’ against this opinion (right, FortyCatFan, Tru, etc?). I think Gillispie is right on with Harrelson needing to shoot more…but of course he needs to play more. However, it still remains an issue with no other guard besides Meeks that can reliably shoot.

'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'

by HozeKing on Dec 17, 2008 10:34 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I would say

That’s probably why we see so much Landon Slone. Additionally, I think Darius Miller can hit the three if he will just get his confidence to take the thing.

Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."

by chirop1 on Dec 17, 2008 10:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Darius Miller

has Derrick Jasper shooting-syndrome. I can remember yelling, “Just SHOOT it!” at the tv multiple times when Jasper was in possession of the ball and open. All in all, that situation worked out well as I am sure this one will.

by kentuckygirl0724 on Dec 17, 2008 1:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Not Right

2 points counts no matter where the shot was taken.

You shoot 3 point perimeter shots. I’ll shoot layups & dunks.

by FortyYearCatFan on Dec 17, 2008 11:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It must be lonely out there all alone...

You are missing the point….in order to allow a team to be freed up inside (see: UK & Patterson), you must have a team that can shoot in order to loosen up the interior defense. If you don’t believe that offensive philosophy, your only other choice is to believe that Patterson just sucks.

'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'

by HozeKing on Dec 17, 2008 12:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Or

A team that screens and passes well.

Or a team that dribble penetrates the defense.

The Pitino days are gone, both from UK and college basketball overall.

by FortyYearCatFan on Dec 17, 2008 1:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Or ...

… a good-shooting big man, which UK has.

As Forty correctly points out, there are several ways to skin that cat.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Dec 17, 2008 4:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Feel Free...

…to bring up those other considerations to both Gillispie and the LHL. Did you all read the article and the quotes from the coach??? I don’t recall him bring up dribble penetration, or screens….he did express or suggest concern with the shooting which I had brought up weeks ago. That’s all I am trying to say…..and the coach…and the LHL. I guess some people don’t want to hear it.

'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'

by HozeKing on Dec 17, 2008 5:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

My assumption is ...

… that you took it out of context. Point me to the article, and I can more properly address your argument.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Dec 17, 2008 11:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

My fault...

…if I am going to reference an article it’s only fair & right that I paste a link. As Gillispie suggests, he sees a need for Harrelson to shoot more. My earlier contention at the start of the season is that UK was short on shooters. Of course, that can’t be easily addressed midseason (since the real answer is through recruiting), so another option must be pursued…to your all’s point of dribble penetration, etc. Regardless, a real ‘root challenge’ for this team is how to improve offensively with limited shooting talent.

http://www.kentucky.com/232/story/629014.html

'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'

by HozeKing on Dec 18, 2008 10:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I can ...

… agree with that statement. Our perimeter shooting introduces a bit of a problem in the sense that it can allow teams to play a tightly packed zone, which makes getting the ball inside much more difficult. In fact, we have seen that very problem in the Miami game, although Miami played more of a match-up zone.

The big trick is to find ways to create space in the lane area, both for dribble drives and post offense. One way is with good perimeter shooting, but UK lacks that in our more talented players. Alternatives are to create space with screens, drive and kick plays, or having a big man that can force his defender to leave the interior, which opens up the middle for the high-low and hard cuts by wing players.

Josh Harrellson must learn to become a good passer, because teams will start taking a chance on opening up the middle more if he starts hitting the 3 with regularity. We really need Patterson to develop range out to the top of the key for the same reason. Stevenson is also capable of making that shot, but he needs to take it more often.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Dec 18, 2008 11:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Miller

Has only hit one so far this season. I think he has a problem with his perimeter shot because everytime he shoots it’s flat and at the rim. Until he corrects it he does not need to be taking that shot.

DEEETROIT BASKETBALLL!!!

by davw83 on Dec 17, 2008 11:07 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

The least worthwhile basketball stat there is.

I know you accompanied the stat with other more interesting/informative stats, but I flat out despise points per game as a measure of production on both sides of the ball. I’m sure you’re aware, but in more cases than not those numbers reflect the pace those teams like to play. VMI is going to average more points than any team in the SEC probably all year long, and they would easily finish last in the league. Their offense isn’t better than any team in the league. They just push the ball, and they always take the first open shot, usually from long range. I’m starting to talk about my other pet peeve, people acting as if VMI is a good team, but I’ll do my best to stay on point.

The best way I know to measure production on either side of the ball is to take points per game and divide it by possessions per game. This takes pace out of the equation and gives a more accurate reading into which teams are most productive given chances to be productive on any given night.

That’s just a little pet peeve of mine. I am still enjoying your articles. Thanks much.

- #3

by #3 on Dec 17, 2008 2:40 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Yes, I agree.

This was just an early overview of the SEC.

As the season progresses we will have a more intimate look at the teams, individual players and their production.

I’m glad you like our work here at ASOB. We always appreciate comments and ideas!

by Ken Howlett on Dec 17, 2008 11:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

That is exactly what the Offensive efficiency stat does at the KenPom.com site.

by Ken Pomeroy on Dec 19, 2008 10:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Agree

I think points per possesion is a better indicator.

DEEETROIT BASKETBALLL!!!

by davw83 on Dec 17, 2008 2:42 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

" . . . a team that screens and passes well."

That’s what I’m waiting for. I’ve seen some good defense, limited dribble penetration, the occasional good pass, but not a game in which screens have set up passes, etc. Chemistry, not stats, will determine the success of this team. Oops, sorry, that’s opinion.

by oldcat'69 on Dec 18, 2008 9:35 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Heh.

I agree with that opinion. We do need chemistry, and right now that is lacking a bit. This team lacks confidence as a team on offense, primarily because the point guard position is so unsettled, and the difference between the two primary players in that position is so extreme.

Porter, for example, is a steady player who makes good decisions with the ball, but he is vulnerable on the dribble and cannot penetrate against better teams. Liggins can do everything, but you never know where the pass is coming from or when, and he sometimes plays out of control. When one goes out and the other comes in, the team is having trouble with the adjustment.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Dec 18, 2008 11:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe I am a little more optimistic...

…or at least am trying to look at it another way. Ultimately, the real question for me is this…can this team defend enough to makeup for its challenges on offense? I don’t think this team has gotten enough credit on it’s defensive capabilities. This team can be a great defensive team….the UK fans (heck, most fans) are kind of like those fathers and townspeople in the movie Hoosiers. They are always worried about the offense.

'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'

by HozeKing on Dec 18, 2008 12:23 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

So

this may be a dumb question, but do you even like UK?

by kentuckygirl0724 on Dec 18, 2008 12:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

That's true.

We do spend more time worrying about offense, because obviously, the team that puts the ball in the basket the most times wins (generally speaking and discounting range).

But I agree that this team can be a great defensive team. Will their offense be strong enough to win those games? We’ll have to see. But offense is often created by great defense, as we saw Saturday early in the game.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Dec 18, 2008 1:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Excellent Question...

Well…

1. My only sibling, my little brother graduated from UK.
2. Many of my friends back home graduated from UK.
3. My niece is currently a junior at UK in pre-med.
4. My entire in-laws are UK fans (although I did convert a sister-in-law who lives in Louisville).
5. I grew up in Kentucky.

I will admit this…I love college basketball and I like people who love college basketball. Up here in Chicago, it’s all Cubs & Bears, so my thirst for the sport can’t be quenched locally.

There is no other program like UK and that has fans like UK fans. I like that. However, at school, I lived on the UofL’s basketball team’s dorm floor and knew players like Darrell Griffith whom I lived across the hall from and one door down. But understand, I graduated from UofL in ‘79, when many fans and UK (namely Joe B) looked down on UofL and demeaned the program while refusing to play us…so even in my advanced age, I find that tough to get over….but that’s my problem.

But enough about me…this site is unique and offers insight from the editors and fans like no other. Maybe I can bring a sense of healthy and objective perspective….as long as you can tolerate the few times (hopefully, only a few) I may show my red bias.

'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'

by HozeKing on Dec 19, 2008 12:46 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Wow.

We are very near the same age. Griff and I were in high school at the same time, in fact, our teams played in the state tournament at the same time, although not against each other. I went to Shelbyville High school (not Shelby County, the two were separate back then). In fact, we lost to Flenoil Crook and Louisville Central that year. Male went on to win the state championship, I believe defeating Central.

Griffith and Bobby Turner were good guys, and I cheered for Louisville the year they won their first title. My feelings toward the Cards have hardened a bit over the years, though, primarily due to the tons of fans who swear Rupp was a racist and that Kentucky is nothing more than a mirror for the Antebellum south, even today. I can forgive that from the lunatic fringe, but when it becomes as mainstream as it has, there is no way I could be part of a fan base like that.

I was always in favor of playing Louisville, and followed them almost as closely as Kentucky in my younger days.

For the record, we welcome all fans of basketball here at A Sea of Blue. I don’t tolerate rudeness toward anyone, even our most bitter foes, as long as they are cordial and want to add value to the site, which you most certainly have done. We have had one or two Cardinal fans come over and embarrass themselves in the past, but fortunately very few.

We are friendly with the SB Nation Louisville site, Card Chronicle, although other than the proprietor, whom I consider a really good guy even though he detests Kentucky, most of the denizens there object to anyone from Kentucky commenting on their blog. Seems they have far less tolerance for us than we do for them, and to be fair to them, UK is known to have a number of unethical jerks (fortunately not including any of my members that I am aware of) who post abusive stuff from time to time on Cardinal blogs.

However, their intolerance of us doesn’t change my policy one bit. We welcome everyone who would engage in rational, honest debate about Kentucky sports, regardless of partisan affiliation.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Dec 19, 2008 7:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Hozer, I respect your views,

except for your characterization of someone who graduated college in ‘79 as of “advanced age.” Unless you took significantly longer than my nine semesters to graduate, I don’t even remember when I was your age. Once that upsidedown nine starts your age, the fog starts to creep in.

by oldcat'69 on Dec 19, 2008 8:02 PM EST reply actions 0 recs