The Roundabout: Monday Evening Edition

by Truzenzuzex on Dec 15, 2008 6:20 PM EST in Open Thread Comment 38 comments

Since I haven't had time to cobble together my usual pithy piece trying to generate a basis for the Theory of Everything out of basketball statistics, I figure the next best thing is to point you to a few interesting news items.

First on our list is this article (hat tip: KSR) identifies yet another case of schools ignoring the NABC's "strong discouragement" of youthful recruiting. In this case, it is a 15-year old in Huntersville, North Carolina. See if you can predict the rationalizations of these coaches for ignoring the NABC's wishes. You have 5 seconds starting now ..... OK, here it is for those of you still suffering from the Monday lack of mental sharpness:

Some coaches, particularly those at schools that aren't traditional powers, say identifying prospects and developing relationships early helps them compete for talent against high-profile programs, such as Duke and North Carolina.

Well. There you go, they just have to do something to prevent all that talent from going to UNC and Duke. You see, NABC, those big, mean schools get all the good players and we just have to get in early to, you know, level the playing field. OK, TLT Jeff Goodman, let's hear you blast these guys. C'mon Vitale, praise them now. What? No? Hmm.

In this piece entitled "Court Awareness: Weekend review" we find this:

Notre Dame and Villanova represented against Texas; the Irish's folly against North Carolina is something to forget. Games to truly judge the conference come when UConn faces Gonzaga and Louisville gets undefeated Minnesota and a surging Kentucky team before conference play begins.

"Surging?" They must have stopped watching Saturday after the first half.

John Clay blogs about the subject du jour for many Wildcat fans, DeAndre Liggins, noting that freshmen can be a trial. Liggins apparently missed his ride to the arena on Saturday, which made him 30 minutes late. Gillispie had him shooting well after the rest of the team had hit the showers.

I'm sure there will be additional remedial instruction for young DeAndre.

Also from Kentucky Sports Radio today is this piece by Matt Jones highly complimentary of Greg Anthony's performance as color commentator during the UK-IU game.

I think Anthony did a really good job. He was interesting, provocative and did it all without being annoying or ebullient -- in itself, a remarkable feat in today's sports announcing world full of the loud and hyperbolic.

Finally, just a few words about the beating Liggins has taken across the UK blogosphere since his strange and inadequate game on Saturday. Despite the apparent difficulties Liggins is having making the transition to the college level, I think it has more to do with wanting to do more than he needs to do. We often see college players try too hard -- we have seen it with Miller and Galloway this year as well.

In fact, the only newcomer who seems to have been ready from day one is Josh Harrellson, and I can't overstate the positive impact he has had on this team, and it only stands to get better. Gillispie has given him the green light to shoot from beyond the arc whenever he is open, and even though he missed several Saturday, his confidence in that shot is only going to grow.

As to Liggins, I am confident that Coach Gillispie will get him on the right page soon. But as UK fans, we must keep our disaproval to the facts we know, not what we suspect may be true. We should not be condemning people for behavior that we know almost nothing about. Let's save our objections for what we see, and what we can prove, not what we fear.

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Ditto on Anthony

I thought Greg Anthony was tremendous Saturday – intelligent, insightful, complimentary and critical at appropriate times, and displayed an ability to judge what both teams might be able to do beyond what he was seeing in just one game. Most of all, he stayed with the game being played and ventured away from it only at times when doing so served to further illustrate a point he was making.

I’m sure CBS will beat all of that out of him by the time March rolls around.

"That's not a Sherman tank, it's Frank Thomas!" - Monkeyball

by JLeverenz on Dec 15, 2008 7:13 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I too enjoyed Anthony

What little time I listened to the TV as I changed to the radio commentary…may have to alter my habits when Anthony is calling a UK game.

by kykat51 on Dec 15, 2008 7:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Anthony was very refreshing...

for all the reasons you mentioned JL. I enjoyed the telecast.

I was however, very put out by the pretentious appearance of Nance and Kellog in tuxedos to start off the CBS doubleheader. Give me a break.

I was also surprised that we viewers in the western end of the commomwealth were not subjected to the over-run of the 1st game into our game. I guess our CBS affiliate in Cape Girardeau, MO, anticipated an influx of calls (we’ve done it before), and went straight to IU/UK.

by racercat98 on Dec 16, 2008 7:00 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

First of all

The NABC fluke…coaches will not stay with as long as others are going against the recommendation. It is too difficult in today’s environment for the coaches, the AAU circuit in high school. I don’t think we will hear anything from the TLT or Vitale on this.

Liggins…Damn he needs to grow up and fast if he wants to remain a Wildcat…all I have to say.

by kykat51 on Dec 15, 2008 7:13 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Interesting choice of words: "grow up"

I don’t necessarily disagree with you, but I think as UK fans we sometimes have irrational expectations for our youth.

Compare Liggins and Miller. Both have played about equal amount of minutes, have roughly the same amount of rebounds per game. Liggins shoots better than Miller from the field and beyond the arc (or as Mike Pratt annoyingly and exclusively says “trey-ville”). They have similar FT %. Liggins the guard out rebounds Miller the forward and the two have nearly identical assist to TO ratios. Both are true freshmen, although Liggins will turn 21 in March will Miller is but 18.

My point is that Liggins and Miller play very comparably with Liggins arguably playing just slightly better—at least statistically. Despite their similar play, I’ve noticed a preponderance of personal criticism for Liggins. Why?

Anyways, UK basketball is interesting, but the Theory of Everything is FASCINATING. Let me know if you get anywhere with that.

Two months (!). Two weeks. Two pencils.

by Thomas Hunt Morgan on Dec 15, 2008 7:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Liggins is soon to be 21...he's already 'grown up' and it ain't good...

I think as UK fans we sometimes have irrational expectations for our youth

'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'

by HozeKing on Dec 16, 2008 1:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

My point about Liggins

His attitude problems that keep popping up in the news. I have seen nothing in the news about Miller and attitude problems.

Anyway, Coach has said he loves his players, and I hope he has the fortitude to deal with Liggins attitude. Sometimes I wonder if what Coach says to Liggins goes in one ear and out the other? I really do. So many freshman on this team and I am sure different personalities to boot. A big challenge for Coach in my eyes but I trust him.

by kykat51 on Dec 15, 2008 7:54 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Wait a second here.

What “attitude problems” are you referring to here? He refused to play when asked. That was addressed. He showed up late for a game because he missed his ride. That was addressed.

What we see here is not necessarily an attitude problem. It may be, but it could also just be growing pains. Liggins does not have a history of attitude issues that I am aware of, and usually people who have attitude problems have displayed them before now.

I recommend we all try to be just a bit less judgmental here. All may not be as it seems, and it isn’t as if he tried to get into night clubs with false I.D.’s, or is actively undermining the team.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Dec 15, 2008 10:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Ok Tru

I will somewhat agree to your post…but not wholeheartedly, as I have dealt with teens in my family in the past. As I said before on another thread….Coach has no kids of his own, just all these freshman guys to deal with and I hope he has the patience to do so. And I trust that he can deal with Liggins because he is right now pushed and I honestly don’t know as a parent I could take it much longer. Liggins may be a freshman at UK but he is almost 21.

Damn my son went into the Navy in June right after HS grad and was 18 in July. He matured physically and mentally. And served his country.

Sometimes I get really po’d at these college basketball players that think they are so good that they can test the coach. Just my rant on L.

by kykat51 on Dec 15, 2008 11:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I do understand.

These kids are born with a silver spoon of talent in their mouths, and then sometimes do all they can to throw away that God-given gift.

I guess I am a bit more reluctant to go there because I was an immature kid like Liggins who acted foolishly in his youth. Like your son, I went into the Navy and grew up, but not before I was 23 years old.

Perhaps I see a little of myself in Liggins, except my talents were not the physical sort.

I don’t blame you for getting frustrated, and in fact, a big part of me wants to join you. I’m merely counseling patience for now, as hard as it is.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Dec 16, 2008 6:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

"So many freshmen.." ...

and just so many players on the roster. I’ll never understand how BG can pay enough attention to all the players, especially on such a large roster. Is this roster so large everyone’s ego can’t be stroked and poked the right way? I just am curious how other coaches have performed from a roster size vs success standpoint.

by hoboat33 on Dec 15, 2008 10:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Since ...

… all but 13 are walk-ons who remain on the team solely at the pleasure of Gillispie, I doubt if he dedicates much time at all to any but the scholarship players and the preferred walk-on’s.

In other words, I doubt it is a problem.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Dec 15, 2008 11:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It's not the makeup of the team,...

it just seems like that a long roster takes more time to manage which may take away coaching time. Did he have long benches (not to be confused with a deep benches) when at A&M and UTEP?

by hoboat33 on Dec 15, 2008 11:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Tru

The Theory of Everything…geez you made my head spin!

by kykat51 on Dec 15, 2008 7:58 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Heh.

That’s what I’m supposed to do, n’est pas?

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Dec 15, 2008 10:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Honestly, Thomas H.M.,

I believe we saw some excitement from Liggins in the WVU game that we haven’t seen from MIller, YET. As a matter of fact, we might not have seen it from anyone else. The point about 21 versus 18 probably also adds to higher expectations for DL. I’m willing to let him grow up, but if I had seen him sitting rather than celebrating, I might not have been so tolerant. There’s little that ticks me off more than not supporting the team.

BTW, if you are descended from John H.M., then my great-grandaddy rode with your great-great (?) grandaddy up to Salineville, OH, where he became a guest of our Northern brothers for the duration of the conflict.

by oldcat'69 on Dec 15, 2008 8:00 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Good points by oldcat and kykat.

I can buy them both. Liggins steadfast refusal to enter the Kansas St. game probably put him on a shorter leash too.

Point of disclosure: I’m not a Morgan. Thomas Hunt Morgan was a 20th century scientist who did some seminal work in genetics. Not so simply put, Morgan was the first to discover sex-linked genetics— the X and Y chromosome. Today we understand this to be critically important in the transmission of certain diseases such as muscular dystrophy and hemophilia as well as certain traits. For his efforts, Morgan won the Nobel Prize in Medicine, the first American to garner that prize. He’s especially great since he graduated from UK way back when. He’s arguably the greatest UK alumnus ever.

ToE, sex-linked genetics, who said Kentucky basketball couldn’t be educational?

Two months (!). Two weeks. Two pencils.

by Thomas Hunt Morgan on Dec 15, 2008 8:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Wow

Thank you for the info on another THM…I am going to google this. I love this stuff!

Are you a doctor by any chance Morgan?

by kykat51 on Dec 15, 2008 9:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Thomas Hunt Morgan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Hunt_Morgan

A nephew of John Hunt Morgan.

by kykat51 on Dec 15, 2008 9:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I can agree with the greatest alumnus ever

I never knew this history…thanks!

by kykat51 on Dec 15, 2008 9:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

John Hunt Morgan

Has a statue in his honor in Lebanon, Kentucky on Spalding Ave. before one turns on the bypass.

by kykat51 on Dec 15, 2008 8:34 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I wish DeAndre Liggins....

had never refused to go back into the game in Vegas. Not because it was the wrong thing to do but because alot of UK fans will never let it go and we will hear about it as long as he is here. It happened, its over, let it go.

by SevenRings on Dec 15, 2008 11:41 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Yeah

Why should the consequences of our actions stick with us?

by BigBlue87 on Dec 15, 2008 11:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Heh.

Well, should a consequence for a minor thing like that stick with us forever? God, I hope not. If I had to relive a lot of similar decisions in my life every day on the internet, madness might be the result.

I recommend we give the kid an opportunity to redeem himself. Redemption is always wonderful, if it happens.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Dec 16, 2008 6:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Accountability is wonderful, too....

…by dealing and handling the proper amount of punishment. I’m not so sure he hasn’t been given the ‘opportunity’ to learn this lesson.

'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'

by HozeKing on Dec 16, 2008 1:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Well ...

… Maybe you should just go tell it on the mountain — or to Coach Gillispie. You never know, he might listen to someone tell him how to discipline his team. I’m betting otherwise, though.

Let’s put it this way — Gillispie has at least five or six second chances left with Liggins before he reaches Pitino/Caracter levels of pragmatism.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Dec 16, 2008 1:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Trust me...

…I thought Pitino went way overboard with that ‘character’….(see I can keep my principles intact regardless of my love…I have successfully raised two teenage boys by the way.

'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'

by HozeKing on Dec 16, 2008 2:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Not to mention...

…managing ~160 remote employees…so I do know something about addressing ‘issues’.

'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'

by HozeKing on Dec 16, 2008 2:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Well ...

… having managed a fair number myself, I think my opinion counts for something if that is a measure of credibility. :-)

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Dec 16, 2008 2:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I honestly

Got over that that infraction…but then he talks fresh stuff to Coach during the Miami game..I think…and then he’s late to the IU game. That is what I do not like. He needs to follow the rules like everyone else .

by kykat51 on Dec 16, 2008 12:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

A lot of fans forgot that incident

As Billy G told the media and fans to forget. I agreed with that.

Unfortunately he has done other things since, and I am not sure Coach’s patience will last much longer. I want Liggins here playing for UK. He can be a tremendous asset, but he needs to LISTEN to Coach and not go in one ear and out the other. This is when I truly miss Mr. Wildcat. He was like a grand to all our players and could really talk to them when they had problems. Godd luck Liggins!

by kykat51 on Dec 16, 2008 12:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I think I see

what BG is doing with DL.He is trying to push the right buttons and get him headed in the right direction.Some of the gradual release of info(that I believed previously should have been kept inhouse)such as not going class,late for practice,insoubordination during WVU game, now lends me to think that this is being put “out there” in the event that DL does not come around,and would tone down some of the dissapointment if DL was dismissed from the team.I hope DL comes around,he has the ability to become a special player(direct quote from BG last night).

by -Zoso- on Dec 16, 2008 5:43 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Based on what???

As to Liggins, I am confident that Coach Gillispie will get him on the right page soon.

Can you give us a proof source that is the basis of your confident position?

'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'

by HozeKing on Dec 16, 2008 1:09 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Why should I?

You wouldn’t care. I think it’s better to give you something to make demands about. :-)

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Dec 16, 2008 1:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Clever dodge....

…..but I do think it’s an issue…even more of a reason to give Porter a break (interesting how the LHL followed ‘my’ lead with the article today).

'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'

by HozeKing on Dec 16, 2008 2:29 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I've been as critical of Porter's talent as anyone, but the kid needs a break.

by Ken Howlett on Dec 16, 2008 2:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree that Porter is getting hit harder than he should.

The blame belongs with the coach more so than him.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Dec 16, 2008 3:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Porter (From UKAA Profile) Is A Good Athlete, Needs To Find His Niche

High School

Averaged 16 ppg, 8 apg, 5 rpg, 4 spg and 41% from three-point range during high school … Four year starter at Modesto Christian amassing a 115-23 record … Three-time all-state … Four-time All-District … Led Modesto Christian to 2004 state title and a 2003 runner-up finish … Four-time Holiday Hoops All-Tournament Team … Six Counties All-Star Game MVP, 2006 … Also played football, was selected two-time all-state … Coached at Modesto Christian by Gary Porter.

by FortyYearCatFan on Dec 16, 2008 3:38 PM EST reply actions 0 recs