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Indiana @ Kentucky: Post mortem

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Thanks to IU for their effort in this game.  Everyone knows they are down this year, and it really showed last night, but they came and gave it all they had.  In fact, they played much better in the second half and beat UK by five in that last 20 minutes.  I have no doubt that Tom Crean will have Indiana back in top form very soon.  [Editor's Note:  I forgot to put this part in my post last night as I usually do.  Apologies to IU fans.]

Well, this game was like a trip around the world in 40 minutes.  We got to see the good, the bad, the tragic, the stylish, the sexy, great poverty, sadness, sickness, oppression, hope, a run-on sentence and a partridge in a pear tree.  To wit:

  • The good -- The first 10 minutes of this game were perhaps, in the approximate words of Greg Anthony, "... the best 10 minutes of defense played in America this year."
  • The bad -- The entire second half by UK.  Were IU not so talent-challenged, UK may have well blown a 20-point lead.
  • The tragic -- IU in the first five minutes.  I almost cried from pity (OK, I lied, they were tears of joy).
  • The stylish -- Perry Stevenson's four dunks.
  • The sexy -- That outrageous one handed scoop-lob by Galloway to Patterson for the dunk.  Way too sexy for TV.
  • Great poverty -- 2-10 shooting by the 'Cats eight minutes into the second half.
  • Sadness -- The look on the IU player's faces going into the locker room after having totaled only 16  13 points for an entire half of basketball.
  • Sickness -- Dunk #2 from Perry Stevenson was totally, utterly, and in all meaningful ways well and truly sick.
  • Oppression -- IU suffered human rights violations at the hands of the Wildcats worthy of an indictment by the International Court of Criminal Justice.  UK's defense in the first eleven minutes was merciless, creating eight turnovers, six of which were steals.
  • Hope -- The first ten minutes of this game was a reprise of the first half of the Lamar game, a devastating performance created by defensive intensity the likes of which we haven't seen at UK for five years.  Hope for the future?  Only if we can sustain it, but if we can, can anyone stand against it?

 

Star-divide

The following players get the Sea of Blue shout-out for good play:  Stevenson, Patterson, Harrellson, Porter.

I must admit, I am tempted to rip the 'Cats for a poor second half performance, but I cannot.  The display of superiority in the first ten minutes captured my savage heart, and makes me want to forgive all manner of incompetence.  However, I would be remiss if I totally ignored how poorly DeAndre Liggins performed, and how well Michael Porter did.  I think Gillispie's idea of starting Porter and Galloway is at least better than putting Porter out there at the point alone, because it gives UK that extra ball-handler they need to avoid problems when Porter is closely defended. Porter is much more mature and that maturity showed today, but even at his worst, DeAndre Liggins is better in almost every respect.

Yes, the Wildcats committed way too many turnovers (23, to be exact), led by Liggins' 6, but the Hoosiers were simply unable to capitalize on them.  Unfortunately for Kentucky, other teams won't be so generous.  But what sticks out to me in this game is not the turnovers, which we have seen all year, but the incredible stretch of intensity we saw in the first half.  It was the kind of effort that can emasculate even a good team, and had they maintained it, would have been as memorable as the 2003 Vanderbilt game in Nashville.  But alas, it was not to be this time.

For much of the game, we saw the same unfocused Kentucky team we have seen for most of this year.  But oh, those ten minutes were truly promising, and as every Kentucky fan knows, it is that promise that we live for.

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UPDATE Sunday, 12/14/2008 9:05 -- It seems that at least  for one shining moment this year (and hopefully more to come) both coach Gillispie and I are on exactly the same page.  He is way more amped about the good we saw in this game than disappointed about the bad, at least in public.

Yes, the second half saw UK return to Miami first half form, but if we had played this particular game against Miami, I am fairly confident that we would have won, although perhaps not by very much.  There has been far too much negativism around the Wildcats lately, and I have contributed my share of it.  Perhaps it's time we took a cue from the coach and celebrated a team victory and the astounding first ten minutes of the game rather than dwelling on the bad.  This team has made a significant improvement overall from the last two games, and if it continues to improve, I like our chances in the SEC.

For all those out there inclined to focus on the ugly second half, take a break.  There is a whole week of practice to work on that before the next game.  Let's try being a little upbeat around here, I think there is ample cause for a bit of celebration.  If nothing else, we have seen just how good this team can be at its best, and that is really, really good.

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Kentucky was damn lucky to win it.

If Indiana hadn’t been so utterly hopeless on offense it would have been a real game. Gotta keep the intensity up fellas…

Orange and Blue Hue: The World through GATOR-colored Glasses -- http://www.orangeandbluehue.com

by Gatorpilot on Dec 14, 2008 1:50 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Heh.

We were up by 23 in the first half, and won by 18. And we were “damn lucky?”

Strange comment, GP. Very strange.

I do agree that UK needs to keep the intensity up, but really — “lucky?” :-)

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Dec 14, 2008 9:42 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah.

What I mean by lucky is that IU was so hapless. It should have been a real game based on Kentucky’s lackluster second-half play. Those poor boys in red just couldn’t make the ball fall through the hoop.

Orange and Blue Hue: The World through GATOR-colored Glasses -- http://www.orangeandbluehue.com

by Gatorpilot on Dec 14, 2008 9:17 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It should have been a real game

had Kentucky not blown the doors off IU in the first eight minutes and put the game in cruise control for the last 32. It should have been a real game had UK not built up a 26 friggin point lead in eight minutes. I guess we just lucked into another 18 point win.

Seriously? Just stop…

by HoboKat on Dec 14, 2008 11:18 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This game should make clear to even the greenest fan why Liggins doesn't start.

That muffled sound you hear is all of the “BCG should play Liggins more” crowd eating crow (at least the smart ones who know basketball and are honest with themselves). Once again we receive a humbling reminder of why BCG makes the millions, while others sit and carp.

I would hope that we will see some moderation in the intemperate language of those who have been telling us how much smarter they are than BCG. Hubris is an ugly thing, even on a sports blog.

I try to stay positive but enough is enough. What you saw from DeAndre “Six Turnover” Liggins tonight is what we see from him in practice almost every day — a reckless and selfish player who thinks he’s still playing against Dawson Springs High, who plays most of the game out of control, and consistently makes the wrong choices. Even the CBS commentators noted that as soon as he went into the game, the intensity shut down on both sides of the ball. It became the “See DeAndre miss another shot that he shouldn’t have taken in the first place, then turn the ball over again” show. It’s sickening to have to watch that, and I’m just tired of it.

Here is a guy who thinks he’s Michael Jordan, but who hasn’t hit any of the 11 three’s he’s taken in ANY of the last three games. That’s right, he’s O-fer, including the EIGHT consecutive threes he missed that cost us the Miami game (supposedly his great break-out game — what are these people smoking?) And what the hell was that backwards lateral he threw to Perry Stevenson in traffic tonight (that wound up with Perry on his back)? What is the kid thinking? On defense, he looked like he was in slow motion in a jar of molasses, and he got beat repeatedly. Let’s face it, he would be getting ZERO playing time if BCG weren’t afraid he’d pull a Legion and bolt.

And as far as the Porter/Liggins controversy, after tonight I don’t know who thinks there still is a controversy. While Porter was at the point, we more than doubled IU’s score. When DeAndre was at the point, they actually outscored us by seven. We didn’t have an offense. We had a wild ass freshman flailing around like a fish out of water. If you missed the Porter-led offense at the start of the game, then you missed some beautiful Kentucky basketball. If all you got to see was what happened after Liggins came in, God bless you and I’m sorry. The second half did include a beautiful Porter to Patterson Alley-Oop, but Mike hurt his ankle on the play and had to come out — and that was that for beautiful basketball in the second half.

Porter played less than half the game (his first game playing without the ten stitches in his head), and his A/S/T line was 4 assists, 2 steals, and 2 turnovers, one of which came immediately after one of his steals, when he was double-teamed and had to chuck the ball to a teammate while he was falling to the ground. DeAndre had 3 assists, another 6 turnovers, and no steals. He also missed four more shots, including his eleventh consecutive miss from three. He would have had two more turnovers had he not been rescued by two IU fouls.

The only positive thing that could be said of his performance is that when his brashness and ball-hogging got him to the foul line (as hot-dogging will generally do), he did convert — small consolation for screwing up the rest of the offensive flow.

Look, I sincerely hope the guy will come around, because the physical skills are there. But ten games into his college career what we’ve seen so far is that there is no basketball IQ to go with the body. What we have is a not-too-damned-bright pouter. This is, after all, a guy who had to struggle just to get the absolute minimum grade needed even to be academically eligible. All there is is attitude and crybaby petulance when he doesn’t get what he deems to be the proper amount of playing time.

If you’re gonna play the diva, you need more than what we’ve seen out of him to back it up. And yes, I admit that I prefer a team full of the humble, hard-working Untouchables spirit to the type of attitude we have seen from Liggins.

In those games where DeAndre does get substantially more playing time than Michael, our offensive numbers plummet, and the overall result is a bad one unless we’re playing Lamar. Against West Virginia we had the second worst offensive efficiency of the season under an almost exclusively Liggins-run team (the game after his “I ain’t gonna play, coach” episode). We all know too well how the VMI game came out. And as I noted above, he single-handedly cost us the Miami game by refusing to pass to the open man, and by repeatedly taking ill-advised three-point shots, all eight of which missed.

Realize that at the time of the Miami game we were top ten in the country in field goal per centage from inside the three point arc. So what does genius Liggins do at the point? Get the ball inside, right? No, DeAndre initiates and presides over a game in which the guards take 23 damn shots from behind the three-point line, AND MISS 21 OF THEM!

That’s a game we lost by six points; you don’t have to be a rocket scientist to figure out why.

Anybody still not understand why Porter starts?

I am enjoying this season, but I can’t wait to get Hood, Orton, and GJ in here next year so BCG ball can hit full stride.

by Ken Pomeroy on Dec 14, 2008 2:59 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I agree...

that Porter should be starting, but I believe your being a bit harsh on LIggins. He’s a freshman, he’s gonna have bad games, lots of them. Porter came out tonight and played some good ball, but it was some of the best he has played all year and Liggins played some of his worst.

by the spork on Dec 14, 2008 3:14 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I didn't get past the first sentence ...

… Give me a break Ken. Liggins is playing in his 10th college game.

He pushed the issue too much today, he made bad decisions today, he, at times played out of control today … he’s a freshman.

I would think him alien if he didn’t make those types of mistakes … he’s a freshman.

And if you called my son a “not-too-damned-bright-pouter” I might be tempted to find out your location. Attack the guys game, not the guy.

You know how things are done here.

by Ken Howlett on Dec 14, 2008 4:39 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yes, I certainly agree that some sensitivity to their youth and indiscretion are called for. But in this case, I think the problem is the guy as much as the game.

Let’s review the resume.

In addition to screwing around in high school and repeatedly failing the ACT, he then refuses to enter a game when called upon by the coach. “Coach,” he says, “Our team’s biggest problem is turnovers, and I have the highest turnovers per minute score of anybody on the team. You should put me in so I can help you out.” Hmmmm…

When that did not seem to be much of an argument to BCG, the kid decides he’s going to run the team, and refuses to come into the game when needed to spell the starting PG.

Then he shows up for the Indiana game LATE (after all, team rules, like NCAA scholastic qualifying rules, are for other people, not him), and during our great 24-4 run (or whatever it was) in the first half, the CBS camera catches the UK sidelines going wild, all on their feet cheering for their beloved brothers on the court — everybody, that is, except for DeAndre, who alone was still seated, with a glowering look on his face. You gotta love that heart, doncha, Cat fans?

Then on separate occasions during the game Patrick Patterson and then Jodie Meeks actually pulled the kid aside to tell him to stop running his mouth and get his head in the game. To those who were present at the game, was it not equally obvious in person as it was on TV?

I hope BCG knows what he is doing and can bring this kid along, but as a fan I would rather suffer through a million Jared Pricketts struggling with limited athleticism than have to watch a coach try to play shrink with a spoiled diva who isn’t even backing it up.

And if I were his father, I would endeavor to find his location so I could put a boot in his spoiled rear. Don’t kill the messenger. It should have started when he started blowing off his academics in high school.

by Ken Pomeroy on Dec 15, 2008 11:02 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Blowing off academics

I won’t post a reply regarding his attitude. I didn’t see the incident with Patterson that has been mentioned several times. I think that’s a legit gripe with the kid.

One thing I will comment on academics. From what I understand, the guy may actually not have the capability to do well in an academic setting. If he does, in fact, have the learning disability that most seem to agree he has then it is unfair to expect the same of him as one would a neurotypical student. I think a fair argument could be made here about college not being for everyone as a general discussion, but to repeatedly bring this up specifically concerning Liggins is unfair.

Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."

by chirop1 on Dec 15, 2008 11:18 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't care what you think about Liggins, and I doubt anyone else does either, just refrain from attacking ...

… him on a personal level.

And by the way, what you have written above is about 95% supposition masqueraded as fact.

And if you were his father, I wager Liggins would be on suicide watch, I know I would be.

by Ken Howlett on Dec 15, 2008 2:30 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If I were his father, he wouldn't be acting the way he is.

He would be on his feet cheering on the rest of the team no matter who was starting. He wouldn’t be late for games. And he damn sure wouldn’t be telling the coach when he is and isn’t going to play.

As far as your own credibility, sir, I would question how anyone who says, “I didn’t make it past the first sentence” can later claim that he has determined that what he didn’t read was 95% supposition.

I don’t know why some on this site (not most, but a few of you) can’t stand it when someone eviscerates some opinion you hold dear that is not supported by the facts. You respond with this kind of post — “I didn’t read your crap, but it was wrong in some way that I can’t identify, and by the way don’t make ad hominem attacks, but if you were my dad I would be on suicide watch.”

I’m a big boy and don’t really mind it, but the predictibility of your responses and the hypocrisy are amusing to watch.

by Ken Pomeroy on Dec 15, 2008 6:38 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Wow.

My comment you quote — “I didn’t get past the first sentence” — is simply my way of saying that the first sentence in your post elicited a strong response.
 
I think it was fairly obvious that I read your entire post since I quoted the middle of the post in my rebuke of you. You know, the part where you call a player stupid.

I am truly sorry you think that, I, or we, are “coming down” on you because we disagree with your sentiment. Actually that’s laughable. People on this site disagree all the time. People disagree with me all the time. Heck, Tru and I disagree on some things. Our problem is with your attacking a player, questioning his intelligence. I don’t know how to make that more clear.

I do know this, though, I am quickly tiring of your attitude, and will begin utilizing the delete button if it doesn’t stop.

by Ken Howlett on Dec 15, 2008 9:38 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ken H

I don’t like his comments about Liggins either, well the academic things, but from previous comments he had here…he had a problem with his boys in high school and growing up. You know could be a case of divorce, I don’t know. Discipline with kids is always a case in a divorce.

by kykat51 on Dec 15, 2008 10:44 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ken P

I think…and I was a tough love mom to 4 steps not too much younger …say 10 years back in the mid 70’s…and my 2 from a previous marriage. I can see where you are coming from as far as a tough love attitude. Coach G has never had kids of his own….just basketball kids and they are his kids. That is just the type of Coach we have now. I absolutely trust Coach even with the problems he is experiencing.

I remember you saying about your kids. Just remember that parents cannot always make the kids right if they stray the course no matter how hard parents try. I experienced for many years with his teens and then my teens. Eventually they wake up and say thank you. Or at least I experienced that from them and so did my hubby before he died. It’s a long journey sometimes.

by kykat51 on Dec 15, 2008 10:17 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

"Eviscerates?"

Don’t break your arm patting yourself on the back there, pal. Based on what I have read, you couldn’t eviscerate a dead hog with help from a professional butcher.

I only allowed your comment to stand because I hoped to teach you a lesson in humility by having to watch everyone else scoff at your nonsense. Your comment was abusive, wrong-headed and filled with false conclusions provided under the facade of reasoning. Rarely are such rants worth more than a one or two line mocking, but if you can’t see how wrong-headed your post is, I really can’t help you, and I don’t have the patience or motivation for a proper fisking of your screed. Most of it is transparent nonsense, imputing things to Liggins that he had little or no control over.

And of course, there is the fact that you have defended Michael Porter since before football season began, despite the fact he is obviously not the right man for the job. As evidence, I offer the testimony of Gillispie’s own playing time decisions. It is clear that he wants to move Liggins into that position as quickly as possible, and rightly so. Obviously, there are other factors at play which make that undesirable for him at the moment, but there isn’t any rational doubt that Porter is out of position at the point guard for other than spot duty. The fact that the circumstances of Liggins’ development so far preclude a complete change is a big reason why we are not much better.

So don’t even dream that engaging in about 10,000 logical fallacies in 11 or 12 paragraphs of foolishness give you the right to claim an “evisceration.” A good logical refutation is obvious even to opponents. Yours is obvious only to you, if even that can be said.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Dec 15, 2008 11:11 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well ...

… this is a silly tirade that makes no sense to anyone but you.

Liggins had a poor game, pure and simple. It happens to freshmen. Apparently, you didn’t know that. Now, you do.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Dec 14, 2008 8:26 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

My friend, go re-read your post-Miami game rant and tell me whose comments are silly.

This may be the only blog left that is still making excuses for DeAndre. Everyone else is silly. And of course BCG is silly. I love having silly company.

by Ken Pomeroy on Dec 15, 2008 10:42 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Oh, I know ...

… exactly what I said. And I stand by every word of it.

My comments about Porter not being right for point guard are nearly irrefutable, and his performance simply makes it more correct. I think Liggins should either start at that spot or be benched for disciplinary reasons. Gillispie evidently sees it differently, but we are generally a much better team with Liggins on the floor.

My complaint about your rant above was directed more towards the fact that it was full of hyperbole and sails perilously close to an assault on the player’s character. That’s not what we do here. If you want to criticize his game, fine, that is fair. But inferring such a negative opinion from the few facts we do have is not only unfair, it is unwarranted.

By the way, we don’t do things by consensus here. If every other blog in the Big Blue Blogosphere decides the sky is pink, we here at A Sea of Blue will not be changing our opinion to fit the consensus.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Dec 15, 2008 11:24 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

LOL

I knew the author of this post before I even got to the bottom to look! Here are some fun analogies:
Ken Pomeroy is to Michael Porter as kentuckygirl0724 is to Billy Gillispie OR as FortyYearCatFan is to Tubby. I say this respectfully and both teasingly and not at the same time. Almost everyone has “that one person” – be it someone they know personally or a public figure or celebrity – that they have got their back no matter what. No shame in that at all. What is not right though it to down another player so strongly in building that person up. (Something that neither myself or Forty does). So you think that Porter is better than Liggins – that is you opinion and you have every right to it. You think that Liggins has a bad attitude – again every right to say that (I even happen to agree with that), but when you repeatedly (in other posts) attack Liggins’ intelligence, that becomes a little more than just good ol’ basketball talk. Thats not cool. If Liggins does have some sort of learning deficency or something that is NOT something that he can be blamed for and that is NOT something that is fair game in a basketball thread. If people always talking about how “stupid” he is happens to be something that Liggins has had to endure ridicule for throughout his life, that may actually have something to do with that “chip” on his shoulder.

by kentuckygirl0724 on Dec 14, 2008 6:26 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If the kid has a learning disability that kept him from scoring the minimum ACT qualifying score,

then I apologize and am ashamed of myself.

If the kid showed up late for the Indiana game because he has a learning disability instead of because he thinks he sets the rules, then I apologize and am ashamed of myself.

If the kid refused to enter the Kansas State game because he has a learning disability instead of because he is a spoiled, pouting sulker used to manipulating adults to get his way, then I apologize and am ashamed of myself.

If the kid sits on his butt on the bench (while everyone else is celebrating the tremendous job the starters did) because he has a learning disability, then I apologize and am ashamed of myself.

Tell me, Kentucky Girl, should I apologize or be ashamed of myself?

I could be wrong, but I doubt that we recruited a kid with any kind of substantial learning disability.

And I respectfully suggest that DeAndre’s biggest problem may not be any learning disability, but people being willing to make excuses for him throughout his life, or give him a pass because he was a gifted athlete, instead of making him work hard and play by the same rules as everybody else.

God gives talent and athleticism, and no man can boast or celebrate for having been given it. (That includes those who get good grades because the Lord gifted them with a great brain.)

I do not celebrate talent alone. I want to watch and cheer and celebrate those who show me that they are willing to work hard and play by the rules and show up for games at the right time and do what the coach asks because he is the coach, and cheer their teammates because they place team above self.

I do see that in Porter, among others on this team.

I do not think I see that in EVERY member of this team.

You may have a different opinion.

by Ken Pomeroy on Dec 15, 2008 11:18 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You show a lot of ignorance in your post

To be fair, I didn’t have an understanding of learning disorders prior to meeting my ex-wife, but her advocacy of her students opened my eyes.

You are taking a serious situation and putting a flippant spin on it. And its ugly.

No, a learning disorder should not be an excuse for being late, having an attitude, or refusing to enter a game. To even put it in those terms as a rhetorical question is insulting to all those that do suffer with these problems.

Yes, a learning disorder may very well be a reason for him to have struggled to gain admittance.

I am not privy to young Mr. Liggins’ academic or medical records. And neither are you. Maybe we should limit our argument to what we are privy to… his in-game performance. And in that area, I tend to agree that you have a legitimate case. You lose credibility with your hyperbole.

Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."

by chirop1 on Dec 15, 2008 11:23 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Perfectly said.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Dec 15, 2008 11:26 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

A learning disability???

Is this fact? Or further hyperbole on the other end of the spectrum?

'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'

by HozeKing on Dec 15, 2008 5:01 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He was considered to have a learning disability...

…and treated as such while attempting to quality academically. I think it allowed him to take certain core classes over again to raise his GPA, but I’m not sure. It’s a fact as far as his prep school, the NCAA, and UK Admissions are concerned.

No one here knows with any certainty whether Liggins does or does not have a learning disability. There probably aren’t many people who know for sure. It may have been a way to give him a better chance to qualify, or he may really have a learning disability. IF it was the former, it wouldn’t be the first time it’s happened in college basketball.

It’s pretty pointless to discuss, because it’s all speculation. It’s even more pointless to draw conclusions about his character on such speculation.

by BBallSophist on Dec 15, 2008 9:17 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If

you are picking on someone for a learning disability of any kind, then yes – absolutely – you should apologize and be ashamed of yourself. His game performance and attitude are fair game. I DO agree that his attitude sucks and if it does not change then, no, he has no place on this team. Coach will know when that point is – think Dusty Mills. It is obviously not now. But, to pick and condem on something that is beyond his control – a learning deficiency – is just wrong and mean.

by kentuckygirl0724 on Dec 15, 2008 7:06 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

green fans

i agree liggins is not the type player were used two but we make these kids this way. we build there ego up and tell them how great they are and try every way in the world to get them to come to our school. with a kid like liggins i think he’s pushing the envelope coming in late saterday not going in the game when called any other kid would have been gone. i was glad tubby left just got to the point where i didn’t care if i ever watched a game again but just not sure where bcg is taking us .if he’s going to have to baby set a kid to get him to play he might not be the coach we need. i too im looking forward to watching jon hood play and being from kentucky when called on he will go in.

by massaccatfan on Dec 15, 2008 9:54 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Overall...

I thought that this was a good win. Even though we looked pretty bad at times, we managed to get a pretty dominating win. We scored at an even rate of 36 for each half and had 5 guys in double figures, and Miller wasn’t one of them. Just waiting for Miller to have that break out game.

Porter played excellent and Deandre didn’t. Hate to say it, but I’m glad. After all the flak Porter has taken over the past few weeks, he steps up and shows us why we need him on this team. I can only hope that he keeps up his good play and Deandre continues to improve on his ball security.

Stevenson played some great defense. With his shot and defense he could be great, but some games he just disappears.

What was up with Halsell? Is he good or are we that desperate at PG?

by the spork on Dec 14, 2008 3:29 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Great writeup, Tru

You had me laughing at your ‘list of ten’ to open your piece.

By the way, I agree with everything you wrote.

Excellent encapsulation of how most UK fans probably feel.

by Ken Howlett on Dec 14, 2008 4:41 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Encouraging...

That first ten minutes was encouraging. Liggins had an atrocious game but he’s still a freshman. You don’t wake up one morning with experience. He’ll get there. It just reminds me how silly we are as fans to make decisions about who should be starting or not starting when we don’t see these guys practice. All we see are games. BCG is seeing these guys everyday for hours a day. He’s likely seeing the kind of leadership he wants to see on the floor from Porter and not from Liggins even though Liggins is obviously the better athlete. Either way we need to win the next 4 and then give that kind of effort for a full 40 minutes against Louisville. Gonna be a great stretch of games!

Xbox Live Gamertag: hoopchi

by hoopchi on Dec 14, 2008 7:38 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Good report but...

You forgot to thank iu for coming to Rupp and with their rag-tag group of athletically challenged spunky white men. Also when you were talking about defensive performances to remember and you mentioned Vandy, I thought you were going to refer to last year in Nashville.
Note to self, Porter plays well against slow white teams.

by Slim Wagers on Dec 14, 2008 8:13 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I did, didn't I?

Oh, well. A belated thanks to IU for trying, and in fact playing a respectable second half.

I got home late and was tired when I wrote the thing, and I guess I just forgot about it.

Porter played well, but not that well. 4 assists and 2 turnovers is a good game for him, even though he failed to score. He did do a good job on defense, as Indiana was a bit less athletic at the guard spot than I was lead to believe and none of their guards really sought to take advantage of Porter’s lack of quickness. Probably because we put them so far back on their heels in the first half, they forgot to.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Dec 14, 2008 8:31 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Porter

It was said earlier, but Porter had a great game against a team featuring walk-ons. He know’s how to play within himself, but his game is just not that good. I don’t know where you saw our team “clicking on all cylinders” when he was running point. Nobody was missing in the first 10 min, but after that Galloway was prob our most effective PG. You just can’t run an effective offense when your PG crosses the half court line and immediately turns his back to his defender (and the entire offense). Notice how Porter has to constantly call for help if ONE guy is pressing him in the backcourt? Constantly missing the wide open shot (air-ball anyone?)?

I think Porter catches a lot of flax, but it is warranted. It’s not his fault though, he shouldn’t be playing for a team of our caliber. Liggins had a horrible game, and made a myriad of bad decisions, but in the end, we are still much more effective with him, or Galloway, running point.

by JRod1229 on Dec 14, 2008 8:53 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

IU Guards

One is a walk-on but most are on scholarship.

by FortyYearCatFan on Dec 14, 2008 9:01 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

An Up and Down Season Ahead

The combined point guard play of Porter and Liggins of yesterday suggests why we’re likely to be in for a rough season ahead. Porter’s game was decent but not outstanding against mediocre athletes; Liggins’ performance suggested he was mentally unprepared to play against a freshman-dominated team. We don’t seem to have anybody who can get the offense started effectively in the half-court set against solid competition. Consistency of effort and good decision-making are our main problems. Both should get better as the season progresses.

by Fortunatus on Dec 14, 2008 9:14 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Up and down, yes, but ...

… I don’t think I would characterize it as likely to be “rough.” Indiana may have been mediocre, but almost any team would have withered under the onslaught that UK brought in the first half.

Liggins had a freshman regression. Good grief, we see that stuff all the time. Remember Patterson’s game last year against Vanderbilt? No? Go back and check that box score.

This game showed nothing about Liggins we didn’t already know — he is stubborn, thinks he is better than he actually is and is trying to prove something to somebody. But he will get better, and he can be very good even when he is at his worst.
 
This game did show us something about what can happen when this team focuses with intensity. That’s the part I’m taking away.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Dec 14, 2008 9:25 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Gonna Be 11-3 Facing Louisville

Should be 12-4 (+) against SEC teams. The SEC is weaker than last season.

Worst case, that’s 23-8 headed into postseason play. EASILY 25+ W after that.

by FortyYearCatFan on Dec 14, 2008 9:26 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I confess, I don't ever think about future records at this point in time.

Never.

I have given zero thought to our record right now. I think the OOC schedule is really a time to learn to play the game, and as long as we are winning 2-1 over losing, I don’t really care that much. I do care about particular games, but the record means little to me. Maybe I am just unique that way.

But when we get to conference, I care a lot. That’s where NCAA bids are won and lost. Of course, a lousy OOC record will negatively affect seeding, and ours does not hold much promise at the moment unless we beat Louisville, which looks a bit less like a long shot today than it did yesterday. That means we are going to have to make up some ground in conference by beating the teams we should beat and at least splitting with the top teams.

That’s a tall order, but perhaps not as tall this year as last.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Dec 14, 2008 9:37 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This Is Not The Greatest UK Team Of This Decade BUT

It has enough talent to match the 2003-04-05 overall results. 25+ W and decent success in postseason play.

by FortyYearCatFan on Dec 14, 2008 9:58 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Louisville

The Cards may have had a good ending score over Austin Peay, but if anyone caught that game, it was close (and tied) much of the way through with the Cards not taking over until halfway through the second half. I took that as a great sign for the Cats.

by kentuckygirl0724 on Dec 14, 2008 6:36 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Forty

did see the class little Ricky showed after their 20 point win..?

Steelers fan 1st! UK is my 2nd love.

by vinceuk1 on Dec 14, 2008 9:48 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No Idea

I don’t follow Louisville.

by FortyYearCatFan on Dec 14, 2008 9:58 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Still Don't Care

Pitino is a great coach. He’s in a better spot FOR HIM now.

Louisville plays in the B-East. Pitino has eastern roots.

by FortyYearCatFan on Dec 14, 2008 10:13 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

whatever...

…geez Forty, you’re so damn condescending it’s laughably…

“still don’t care”… I didn’t ask you to care, I was just trying to engage in conversation…

sorry

Steelers fan 1st! UK is my 2nd love.

by vinceuk1 on Dec 14, 2008 10:18 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I Don't Care What Pitino Did Or Didn't Do

Simple as that. Has nothing to do with UK vs IU game analysis.

by FortyYearCatFan on Dec 14, 2008 10:32 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

well, you posted
Gonna Be 11-3 Facing Louisville

I just threw in a Louisville tid-bit myself…

forget it man…

Steelers fan 1st! UK is my 2nd love.

by vinceuk1 on Dec 14, 2008 10:38 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The W Over IU

Paves the way for 11-3 record at end of December. It was the first of 5 cupackes that UK will play in mid to late December. It’s the only game that could remotely be considered as a possible L the rest of this month.

by FortyYearCatFan on Dec 14, 2008 10:51 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Follow Louisville

I do long enough to see if they are getting beat :)

" I believe in pipedreams"

by Magnoliacat on Dec 14, 2008 10:01 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I've got a son at Louisville (how did that happen???), so I follow somewhat. In fact, I'll

go far enough to admit here that I have nothing against them unless they are playing my beloved Cats. And no, you can’t have my “I Bleed Blue” membership card just because I said that.

by bluegrassgal on Dec 14, 2008 11:31 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Heh.

No need. I have friends who are big UK fans in the same situation. It doesn’t make them bad people.

You don’t have to hate Louisville to be a card-carrying Kentucky fan. Not in my book, at least.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Dec 14, 2008 11:38 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I hate UL

BUT, I hate the sate of North Carolina being the unofficial “Basketball State” so as long as UK keeps getting better (year to year) and beats LU (They hate when people do that) I want them bad ass. I want UK and LU to both be bad ass and I want a pre-season showdown in the future. A “First Four” of UK, LU, UNC and Duke. Talk about ratings and money!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Four teams that hate each other with passion but in a strange way will be forced into being on the same side for a brief moment.

A boy can dream can’t he?

Changing how you think will change what you think.

by wilson452 on Dec 15, 2008 9:40 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

say what you want about Liggins, but...

up to this game, he has out performed all other “lead” guards on own team…

He was in a hurry much of the game, bad some bad shot selections and appeared to be unfocused…

To me, it sounds like he’s a …huuummmm FRESHMAN…!

Miller just had 2 games in a roll like that… He’ll be ok…

And to say UK was “damn lucky to win”…? What an absolute joke.. You think we loose intensity if we’re not up 30..? come on guys… geez…

I was not happy with the let down, but man what a great 1st 10 minutes… We ever put it together, (and I think we’re very close), we will have a special team…

BTW: for what it’s worth, after the game, Billy G. said this team is ready to start a steam roll…!

And if anyone seen little Ricky after their game…LOL He lambasted a reporter and then shoved him for asking why they shoot free throws so poorly. Told the guy he needed to be replaced by a women…

Real class act that Ricky P. NOT…!!!! How about your coach now HozeKing…?

Steelers fan 1st! UK is my 2nd love.

by vinceuk1 on Dec 14, 2008 9:46 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

UK no longer front page material

I went to ESPN, Fox Sports, CBS Sportsline and SI.com. No information about the game to be found. Excuses can be made but UK is no longer front page material even on the their college pages. Sad.

by SevenRings on Dec 14, 2008 9:53 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

well, ESPN...

…usually will stick with the top 25 for their headlines (front page)… Unless there is a story….

When Harris went down, it was front page on ALL sports sites…

We’ll be back on the front page real soon, for how we’ve turn it around..! real soon…

Steelers fan 1st! UK is my 2nd love.

by vinceuk1 on Dec 14, 2008 9:57 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Just to clarify...

I meant their Mens Basketball front pages.

by SevenRings on Dec 14, 2008 11:11 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Sadness...

IU only had 13 at the have didnt they? Not 16?

" I believe in pipedreams"

by Magnoliacat on Dec 14, 2008 9:57 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yep. Good catch.

I beg off due to fatigue. It was very late when I wrote it, just coming back from a Christmas party. It might have had something to do with the Four Roses single barrel I had, also … :-)

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Dec 14, 2008 10:09 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So did i...LOL

Half NOT have..good grief!

" I believe in pipedreams"

by Magnoliacat on Dec 14, 2008 9:59 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Pitino

If you watched more of the segment… he is actually really good friends with that reporter… it was done in jest…

by JRod1229 on Dec 14, 2008 10:24 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ah, context.

It isn’t just for quotes anymore. :-)

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Dec 14, 2008 10:25 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

oh, ok...

sorry about that… I just saw what ESPN was showing… Sorry if I offended any ’ville fans…

Steelers fan 1st! UK is my 2nd love.

by vinceuk1 on Dec 14, 2008 10:25 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

saw that

and it was scripted is what ESPN said

by tenken on Dec 14, 2008 11:18 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I wish

I had seen the first ten minutes! Dadgummit. I dont’ get Kentucky radio down here in southwest, TN so I had to watch Memphis and by the time Kentucky came on the first ten minutes was over. Sickening.

On Liggins, give him a break. Let him mature.

On Porter, games like yesterday make me wonder if he can do like Ramal Bradley and become basketball smart in the last half of his career? I know I hated him being booed but just maybe he heard it and has pushed himself to prove the UK faithful wrong????

by tenken on Dec 14, 2008 11:16 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I didn't see the game until Memphis/Georgetown had completed their overtime so I missed the

best part of the game evidently. While I don’t want to pile on Liggins, it’s a good thing I’m not in charge of that team or surely I would have jerked a knot in his tail for continuing to fling up threes and hotdogging. Agreed, he’s a freshman, and BCG gets paid the big bucks to handle this stuff, and right now I have complete confidence and faith that he can manage his team. Hopefully Liggins will mature (soon) and use the God-given talent to it’s potential.

by bluegrassgal on Dec 14, 2008 11:37 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Amen.

Liggins needs to learn that he is part of a team, not a one-man show. Apparently, that is a lesson that he hasn’t fully mastered yet.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Dec 14, 2008 11:39 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Me too

Ugh, would have liked to see us play well.

I wasn’t too pleased by the effort I saw. I will say Perry Stevenson played awesome defense, but for the last 3/4 of the game, that’s about all I was really happy with, except more good play by Jorts. Patterson didn’t get the ball enough, Liggins is coming off as a bit of a ball hog (freshman), Meeks could have been more aggressive on offense.

The worst part of the game was the refs. I could definitely tell the game was on CBS. Absolutely abyssmal officiating. Porter is following his man through a pick, gets shoved by an IU guy – foul on Porter. And more uneven ticky-tacks fouls when big fouls aren’t being called. Horrible, and totally un-fun to watch. If anyone but UK were playing, I would have turned it off.

by EEWildcat on Dec 14, 2008 3:29 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

College basketball officiating

I believe that it’s the worst officiating out of all the “Big 3” sports, college and professional.

It seems to be getting worse year after year.

by BBallSophist on Dec 15, 2008 3:39 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No doubt about it....

I never thought that I would long for John Clougherty, or Charlie Vaca.

by racercat98 on Dec 16, 2008 7:10 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Clougherty...

… liked to save all the bad calls for himself. Usually the other refs under him were quite good as I remember.

by EEWildcat on Dec 16, 2008 7:52 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

not saying this is true....

…But it almost looked like he play as if he were leaving… (like Carruth played)

I don’t think he will leave, just saying it looked like he played as if he didn’t care to tick-off the coach…

BTW: Carruth just refused to shoot in one game, wide open and he just passed the ball back like it was a hot potato… lol

Steelers fan 1st! UK is my 2nd love.

by vinceuk1 on Dec 14, 2008 11:46 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't see it that way.

I think Liggins tried, but I think he is having difficulty recognizing what the best thing to do is. In high school, coaches don’t care as much what kind of shots people take, and he isn’t taking an outrageous amount — the ones he are taking just aren’t good ones, and he is trying to get away with passes that he could make in high school, but can’t in college even against below average teams. Liggins is the kind of player who would rather make the wrong decision than no decision, and that is part of why he has such great potential. Gillispie calls them “errors of commission,” vs. “errors of omission.” Liggins is making the former almost 100%, and the coach is willing to forgive those. Michael Porter tends to make too many of the latter.

This situation right now appears much more like Joe Crawford than Rashad Carruth. In Carruth’s case, it was all over the state that the guy was poisonous to the team. Liggins doesn’t appear to be a bad teammate, but just refuses to believe that he can’t continue what he did in high school. Today’s game was a good lesson.

It may take time, but I expect him to get it. I damn sure hope so.

On another subject, I like what I see in Kevin Galloway. The light is beginning to come on for that young man.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Dec 14, 2008 12:05 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

good points..

… Galloway just looks like a natural… Billy G. thinks he will be a defensive gem…

Steelers fan 1st! UK is my 2nd love.

by vinceuk1 on Dec 14, 2008 12:09 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Good Post

But I actually disagree with the first sentence that “Liggins tried.”

He tried to make some (bad) plays on offense, but his defense and intensity were simply not there. In fact, he looked completely disinterested in the game unless he had his hands on the ball. I watched the game again today and came away with the same conclusion.

by HoboKat on Dec 14, 2008 8:03 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I agree with HoboKat's take...

…Liggins looked to be defying his Coaches with several plays in his limited minutes. I hope I’m wrong but if he’s set on butting heads with the Coach, he’ll eventually lose.

by Clandestine on Dec 16, 2008 8:24 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Carruth

I was in Iowa that year and never really did hear all the details. I hear snippets here and there about his “shooting strike” and a few other things. Is there a good link on the net somewhere that I could read up on the drama from that year?

Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."

by chirop1 on Dec 15, 2008 7:57 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

LOL! --- UK fans have permanently purged the entire Carruth episode from the Internet :)

I was at the game that Carruth refused to shoot (Kentucky State). It was surreal on a few occasions — He would be wide-open, I mean no one with several feet of him, and he’d look at the basket, and then pass the ball. It was weird.

I forget where I heard, or read this story: Very soon after practice officially started coach Smith had a practice or team meeting scheduled and Carruth shows up 10 minutes late. When Smith asked him why he was late, Carruth responded, “You knows how we do, coach,” as he saunters into the practice or meeting.

Those two stories should give you an idea of what Smith was dealing with.

Both Carruth and Parker were supposedly a bad influence for the entire team, most notably Daniels and Fitch.

Carruth ended up at Southern Miss after a couple of other stops (Oklahoma for about 2 weeks). Parker went to S. Carolina and lasted about 6 months or so.

Terrible wastes of talent.

by Ken Howlett on Dec 15, 2008 9:42 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Parker

Also played at JuCo in Florida.

I met his parents at South Carolina game in 2002. Nice folks.

Fitch had problems with Bogans that year, not Parker or Carruth.

by FortyYearCatFan on Dec 15, 2008 9:54 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I didn't write that Fitch had a problem with Parker and Carruth, but that those two were bad influences.

I don’t know anyting about Fitch/Bogans but Fitch seemed to have a ‘problem’ with Cory Sears; they’re the ones who got into an altercation on the plane.

by Ken Howlett on Dec 15, 2008 10:10 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Fitch And Bogans Interested In Same Girl

And there’s more to the Fitch/Sears incident than widely known. Another player (I think Hawkins but not sure) actually instigated the fight between them.

by FortyYearCatFan on Dec 15, 2008 12:43 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What bugged me most,,,

about Liggins is his failure to avoid and/or fight through screens. Every time he got picked in the back court (i.e. before the IU guard even crossed half court) he simply ran into the pick (instead of going around it) and let the IU guard proceed across half court unguarded to start the offense. If IU had even a remotely decent back court, Liggins’ failure to go around obvious (and easily avoidable) screens would have cost his team dearly.

Not piling on here, but I just wish the guy had shown a bit more effort.

Hey, a win is a win. I’m happy.

by tooblue on Dec 14, 2008 12:07 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I agree ...

… Liggins went under way too many screens, and yes, it bugged me also. Meeks is also consistently guilty of that, and I think Gillispie will make that a point of emphasis this week in practice.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Dec 14, 2008 12:33 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What I liked most...

was Harellson constantly looking to score. I wish Stevenson would do that more.

I’m still happy though.

by tooblue on Dec 14, 2008 12:09 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah.

So do I. Perry wants to turn down anything he can’t dunk.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Dec 14, 2008 12:33 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Thoughts

Like many, I missed most of the best part of the game, so that is going to color my feelings somewhat. Hopefully those first 8 minutes will show up on youtube soon.

It’s good to hear the Porter/Galloway combo worked so well in the first half. I’ve had my doubts about Porter, but pairing him with Galloway should push him more into a “SG with privileges” type role where he is involved in getting the offense initiated, but doesn’t have to worry about bringing the ball up against tough defenders. That should work just fine against all but the elite teams. Since UK only has 3 such games remaining (@UL, 2x UT), I feel much better about the offense going into conference season.

The Patterson, Harrellson, Stevenson triumvirate continues to be dominant. UK has one of, if not the best, front court rotations in the SEC. (On a somewhat related note, one day I will be able to spell ‘Harrellson’ without having to double check it).

I was thoroughly unimpressed by anything Liggins did today and was frustrated by most of what he did do. I don’t have much to add to what others have already said, except that one bad game isn’t going to sour me on the kid. If UK wants to have a chance against UL and UT, they are going to need Liggins to get his head in the game.

Despite my best intentions, I did not actually pay much attention to Darius Miller’s defense this game. I’ve read in other places people say they thought it was better, but I’d be interested to know what fellow ASoBers think.

The second half was a chore to watch, but in the end UK got a win against a major conference foe and that’s something to be happy about.

"That's not a Sherman tank, it's Frank Thomas!" - Monkeyball

by JLeverenz on Dec 14, 2008 12:37 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I thought ...

… Miller played well. He made a three, shot more fearlessly and played solid defense. He fouled out, but he worked hard. I would have liked to see more than 3 rebounds out of him in 29 minutes, but I would say he had a solid if unspectacular game. He had a nice line, with only 1 turnover, an assist, two blocks and a steal.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Dec 14, 2008 12:41 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Is it just me...

or does Darius Miller have the worst luck for getting called for ticky tack fouls? It seems like every game he is getting called for 2 or 3 fouls where I just shake my head and go ‘what?’ Maybe it’s a result of poor defense.

Xbox Live Gamertag: hoopchi

by hoopchi on Dec 14, 2008 1:00 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

2nd half

in a game like this does not reveal anything about the team in the lead….

by MyBloodRunsBlue on Dec 14, 2008 12:39 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Severe But Incisive

Ken Pomeroy’s comments on DeAndre Liggins are perhaps more severe than those I would make but he does provide insightful information. Considering that Liggins is a 20-year old just making his college debut, that he had serious academic problems at his Chicago high school, that he experienced real difficulty in becoming college eligible from a school whose purpose is college preparation, that he is said to have a learning disability certificate, and, adding the Las Vegas incident, yesterday’s report from Jerry Tipton of Liggins’ tardiness in reporting for the game, plus his seeming uncoachable, irresponsible on-court performance — considering all that I perceive that DeAndre Liggins’ time as a Wildcat is in jeopardy, either by coach’s decision or academic ineligibility. The second semester will give an accurate indication.

by Wild Weasel on Dec 14, 2008 12:40 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You never know.

I don’t like some of the things I have heard, but if he is here in the second semester, and able to play, we will know his academics are in order.

Assuming that, I think the rest will take care of itself. If he becomes academically DQ’d, I don’t expect him to be back next year. Gillispie is clearly trying to avoid another Alex Legion high-profile transfer or having to throw Liggins off the team. If Liggins can’t do the work, he won’t have to, and Gillispie can shrug his shoulders.

I want to see Liggins succeed, and I believe he will. But his history of academic difficulties and the lateness issue are cause for concern. I can only hope that Galloway continues his development, and if he does, we may be able to weather the storm if Liggins undergoes some kind of epic fail.

Going forward, I doubt that Gillispie will be as tolerant of Liggins’ misbehavior next year, when our point guard situation will be somewhat less critical. But for now, I am hoping, and somewhat confident, that it will all work out for the best and Liggins will come around. We’ll have to wait and see, though.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Dec 14, 2008 12:48 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What makes you think the PG situation will be less severe next year?

If we were to lose Liggins, we would have Porter and Galloway… and a freshman GJ Villarino. Not exactly world beater material. (For the record… I think GJ will be a fine PG at UK, but I think he’ll need some experience.)

Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."

by chirop1 on Dec 15, 2008 8:02 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think ...

… between Porter, Galloway and GJ Villarino, we have the makings of a decent point guard. I expect that Liggins will be here, but if he isn’t, I think Villarino will be better than advertised.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Dec 15, 2008 11:29 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i agree with this strongly...
Going forward, I doubt that Gillispie will be as tolerant of Liggins’ misbehavior next year

Steelers fan 1st! UK is my 2nd love.

by vinceuk1 on Dec 14, 2008 12:59 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

something that stood out to me in the iu game is how fresh the cats looked. looks like the 2 day practice hiatus really payed off. secondly, i think this game really proved that liggins is still developing as a player and a teammate. i also wanted to address forty’s comment that pitino is in a better place fo him now bc he has eastern roots. Last time i checked, Louisville is further west than Lexington lol. I dont really care if its the big “east”. half of those teams are nowhere near the east coast (notre dame, louisville, marquette)

by hummer11092 on Dec 14, 2008 1:13 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I also agree

With that assessment Tru…aren’t finals this week? We won’t have to wait much longer on the academic questions.

by kykat51 on Dec 14, 2008 1:19 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I graduated in 2007...

and we always got our final semester grades before Christmas. If there’s any academic problems, they should probably become public knowledge as soon as the end of next week.

by mrmondaynite on Dec 14, 2008 2:21 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

On another note

I did see PPat and Stevenson giving a good talking to Liggins yesterday when he was in the game and playing so erratic. He has a ways to go yet.

by kykat51 on Dec 14, 2008 1:24 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Next 4 Games

Good “laboratory” opportunities for Liggins (et al). Each game is an easy W over a lesser opponent.

Freshmen often struggle, especially PG. Look at Tony Delk back in 1992-93. Nothing like the TD of 1995 or 1996.

by FortyYearCatFan on Dec 14, 2008 1:35 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Coach's post-game conference

I watched it over at the LHL and he had nothing bad to say about the team’s play, not even the disappointing play by Liggins (my opinion)…he was very upbeat no matter what kind of negative questions the reporters put forth. I just have to stay optimistic about this team or I would lose my sanity :-)

by kykat51 on Dec 14, 2008 3:17 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He was ...

… and I join him in that positive outlook. I think the first 10 minutes made up for all the rest in his mind, and in mine as well.

I could sit and watch the first ten minutes of last night’s game over and over again for hours. It was just that good.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Dec 14, 2008 5:11 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

32-6

How can you not be optimistic? Sure Indiana is down but our struggle this year has been slow starts and we come out of the gate and bury them at one point 32-6. We watched some of the best defensive basketball of the decade and we played pretty good offensively as well. We won…I join BCG on this one. Sure we could have finished stronger but I would rather win early and coast home than get down early and have to fight just to get in it. Put this one in the books and bring on the next one!

Xbox Live Gamertag: hoopchi

by hoopchi on Dec 14, 2008 5:35 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Sorry I'm late to the conversation, but

I had to work today. kykat, I also noticed the Stevenson/Patterson discussin with DL. I know he’s not the oldest guy on the team, but Patterson is the guy who could take over the REAL leadership role and get his point guards in line. I don’t know what is said between them, but a few words to the PGs from a player of Patterson’s stature might generate some more in-out flow of the ball and more of those great high-low plays that were effective but seldom used yesterday.
I thought Liggins had a couple of decent games earlier, but yesterday was a disaster. Maybe he knows grades are coming out and that was his penultimate (I love that word) game. If so, maybe he’s trying to impress another coach somewhere. Regardless, he sure didn’t impress me. The potential is there, but the tap is missing.

by oldcat'69 on Dec 14, 2008 5:24 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Liggins

He’ll be 21 in March. His original HS class was 2006. Same age as Stevenson.

Patterson is a year younger (HS class = 2007) than Liggins.

by FortyYearCatFan on Dec 14, 2008 7:18 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Perfect game...

for Liggins to play so badly. We are up big, no real chance that IU can come back and he picks then to have his worst performance of the year. I just hope he got it out of his system.

My how fickle we UK fans are. It was just a couple of weeks ago we were upset that Porter was even playing let alone starting over Liggins and now we can’t get over how bad Liggins is. He’s not that bad, he had a bad game. In fact, I hope his grades are good cause he can be good for us and will be good for us.

Sure glad most of us are not coaching the team. If we were, we would have gave up on pretty much all these boys during the first week of practice and VMI. I’m ready to embrace them. Remember what the team did last year after the early season turmoil? I agree with Tru’s update above and have tried to be that upbeat all year.

Xbox Live Gamertag: hoopchi

by hoopchi on Dec 14, 2008 5:46 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I have never been sold on Liggins

To be a starter due to his attitude that has popped up several times. I am trusting Coach to handle this situation. He knows the players much better than any of the UK faithful.

by kykat51 on Dec 14, 2008 7:35 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I've read through the Game Thread and the Post Game Thread

And no mention of Temple taking it to Tennessee? I’m surprised.

That gave me some real hope for the SEC season to come.

Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."

by chirop1 on Dec 15, 2008 8:43 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

We talked about it briefly

in the Indiana @ Kentucky: “It’s 6:00 PM, suppertime in South Bend Indiana” post from a few hours before the game…the dust had kind of already settled since the Temple-UT game was over around 2:30.

by mrmondaynite on Dec 15, 2008 9:55 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Tennessee ...

… is good, but they are not that good. We are certainly closer to them this year than last, and at our best, we may be better.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Dec 15, 2008 11:30 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

KenPom

has his predictors up,SEC play predicts UT 15-1,UK 14-2,and UF 11-5.I think UK is too Jekyll/Hyde at point play,so I would guess same as last year,12-4.

by -Zoso- on Dec 15, 2008 11:55 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

UK is better ...

… than last year. I expect their record to be better as well.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Dec 15, 2008 12:26 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

if that is true...

…then he is predicting UK would have to loose 3 of the remaining pre-conference games…

Am I reading that wrong..? Makes no sense…

Steelers fan 1st! UK is my 2nd love.

by vinceuk1 on Dec 15, 2008 1:24 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

kenpom made a mistake

http://kenpom.com/sked.php?y=2009&team=Kentucky&t=p

if you go to that link, at the bottom, it has the projected record as 23-8 overall , 12-4 in conference. but then go to the column on the right, and it has each game predicted with a final score. there we go 14-2 with losses at UT and at UF. so basically the site predicts both a 12-4 record (which is how he gae us a 23-8 record…he has us losing to UL) and a 14-2 SEC record when you look at games individually.

what i say above is much more clear when you just look at the link. :-)

GO BIG BLUE!! GO BIG BLUE!!

by UKWildCatFanatic on Dec 15, 2008 1:34 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No Mistake

He grades each game individually, then grades the rest of the season lumped together.

The individual game results sometimes differ from the entire season’s results.

by FortyYearCatFan on Dec 15, 2008 4:29 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

oh, i didn't know that...

that’s just confusing then. in that case the 14-2 and 23-8 should not be considered together.

GO BIG BLUE!! GO BIG BLUE!!

by UKWildCatFanatic on Dec 15, 2008 5:05 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That makes no sense

Not saying that’s not how he does it, just that if it is, he needs a new system.

C! A! T! S! CATS! CATS! CATS!

by NYCCats on Dec 15, 2008 5:18 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It Is How He Does It

Strictly math and stats = % chance of winning.

I like KenPom ratings.

by FortyYearCatFan on Dec 15, 2008 7:31 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

he actually has 25-6, noy 23-8....

Steelers fan 1st! UK is my 2nd love.

by vinceuk1 on Dec 15, 2008 2:05 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

where do you see that?

the link i put above still shows 23-8. 25-6 is what it should be (and what i hope it’ll be).

GO BIG BLUE!! GO BIG BLUE!!

by UKWildCatFanatic on Dec 15, 2008 4:15 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Then you need to go back and...

…count the W’s & L’s

25-6… Has the world gone mad…!!!

Steelers fan 1st! UK is my 2nd love.

by vinceuk1 on Dec 15, 2008 8:00 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Not How He Does It

He does the individual games and the season as a whole SEPARATELY.

The game-by-game results don’t necessarily match his prediction for season’s record.

by FortyYearCatFan on Dec 15, 2008 8:04 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

ok, let me get this straight...

If I go game by game, then Ken has them at 25-6…

If I go by his season forecast, then he has then at 23-8..

???

Steelers fan 1st! UK is my 2nd love.

by vinceuk1 on Dec 15, 2008 8:08 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yes

He explains why on his website.

It makes sense by math & stats.

by FortyYearCatFan on Dec 15, 2008 8:12 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Insurance companies love you guys

Read the fine print!

**Projected record is based on chances of winning, and therefore may not conform to the
cumulative game-by-game predictions. This accounts for the unexpected results that
will inevitably happen during the season.

by EEWildcat on Dec 15, 2008 8:13 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It's basketball, it's not life or death...

…Thanx Forty for the explanation..!

Steelers fan 1st! UK is my 2nd love.

by vinceuk1 on Dec 15, 2008 8:14 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

In short

The favorite doesn’t always win. Sometimes there are upsets. It is possible to calculate the expected number of upsets. That’s where the discrepancy comes from (I assume, I haven’t looked at any of Real Ken Pomeroy’s formulas)

by EEWildcat on Dec 15, 2008 10:02 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

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