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Kentucky 54, West Virgina 43: Post mortem

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Congratulations to the West Virginia Mountaineers for a hard fought game that Kentucky was fortunate to win.

I must confess, I did not think UK could pull this off.  West Virginia looked like world beaters against an obviously inferior Iowa Hawkeyes team.  Yet, that same Iowa team managed to pull out a last-second victory over what seemed to me as a clearly superior Kansas State team.  Such is college basketball.

Kentucky came into this game with the clearly tougher road.  Barely squeaking by the K-State Wildcats last night, the Kentucky version was obviously tired and energy-depleted, and it really showed in the first half , where the Mountaineers physically dominated Kentucky and took a 10-point lead into the locker room.

The first seven minutes of the second half were more of the same.  then, at about the 13:00 mark with the 'Cats down ten, something happened.  Kentucky sullenly caught a second wind, and the Mountaineers obviously hit a wall.  UK began sending Huggin's charges back onto defense after repeated empty possessions.  Not only that, but the Mountaineers began to foul UK over and over again, and it was that foul disparity that would eventually make the difference.  WVU kept sending UK's best free-throw shooters to the line, and Kentucky made them.

I can't tell you how exciting it was to sit among so many of the Big Blue Faithful so far away from home.  You have all heard that Kentucky travels well, but until you have experienced the camaraderie of a UK tournament on the road, you really have no understanding of the concept.  It was life-changing for me, and both me and my wife have vowed to do it again as soon as practicable.

As far as the game went, here are my perceptions:

  • Evidently, Liggins and Gillispie are back on the same page.  Liggins was teriffic tonight, and a big reason why UK won, both offensively and defensively.
  • Jodie Meeks, despite being obviously leg-weary and less than 100%, never gave up.  In fact, at the end of the second half, he really shone through on defense.
  • Josh Harrellson was, next to Jodie Meeks, probably the MVP of the tournament.  Patrick Patterson had a good game tonight, but Harrellson was everywhere, and absolutely played as hard as any player I have seen all year.
  • Michael Porter once again gave a good effort, but he is nowhere near as talented as Liggins, and that made all the difference.
  • Perry Stevenson continues to play very passively except on defense.  He had a number of emphatic blocks during this tournament, but did very little to help the team on offense.
  • Ramon Harris played OK.  He is definitely capable of better.
  • Darrius Miller did a great job on Ruoff, particularly in the second half.
  • UK really needs to learn to get a step or two closer before trying that lob pass into the post.
  • Free throw shooting was the difference in this game.
  • At the end of the game, UK looked like the fresher team.  I would never have believed that given their trials of last night.
  • The lack of layoff clearly showed in Meeks' shooting.
  • Patrick Patterson needs to familiarize himself with the two-handed slam.

That's it for now.  Add your comments in.

0 recs  |  Comment 19 comments |

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NIce

This was a much needed win,and glad to see DL in uniform and getting minutes.

by -Zoso- on Nov 30, 2008 2:52 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

what a relief...

to see Harrellson come up big…

So glad to see Liggins playin and doin well, he is obviously part of our future and, more importantly, our present

I think that this shows that we can win when we aren’t shooting lights out….our defense and free throw shooting will keep us more than competitive in most games, if not all

As for the turnovers, its obviously pretty bad……..we will win on luck and not much else as long as this turnover problem is there

That said, Go Cats, we are the Las Vegas Invitational Champions……..its something

by the spork on Nov 30, 2008 3:01 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Too many turnovers but the talking between players was evident.

Not just after a foul. but more during the game. Still a need for more talking, but more confidence was shown by Liggins and the team seemed to respond. Both Liggins and Harrellson made major contributions. Now if we would use the bench more it would help. It was distressing to hear the “announcers” say KY wasn’t very deep. Our conditioning held up really well, but we will need more help as the season goes along.

Has anyone heard about the results of Pilgrim’s request to play this year? I am assuming it was denied, but haven’t heard anything.

by Blueobsessed on Nov 30, 2008 6:59 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Very Nice 2x W In Vegas

These trump the opening L to VMI in my book.

Both K-St and WVU are solid (BCS) opponents. UK beat both despite not playing our best game.

by FortyYearCatFan on Nov 30, 2008 7:47 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Last two games,

Reminded me very much of last year’s team after Patterson was injured. Despite being offensively challenged, both teams found a will to win, with gritty and gutty performances. If this year’s team can begin to play with the same attitude the Cats had at the end of last season, that is a very, very good thing.

Two months (!). Two weeks. Two pencils.

by Thomas Hunt Morgan on Nov 30, 2008 11:15 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Harrellson/Harris/Liggins

I am now impressed by Harrellson and see why Forty listed him in his “Gillispie’s 8.” Ramon Harris HAS to stop picking up his dribble. He has a bad habit of driving into traffic, picking up his dribble, and getting stuck. He did it repeadedly in the last two games. Liggins better get his mind right. Yes, he is WAY better than Porter, but GIllispie is the COACH and the starting line up and minutes to be played are his call. I highly doubt Coach will put up with that kind of crap – no matter how much we need someone in the point position.

by kentuckygirl0724 on Nov 30, 2008 11:35 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Right on! That behavior cannot be excused. Coaches have long memories and

may say publically that they have put that behind them, but that spoiled “me first behavior” has no place in college basketball, let alone at KY. I look for Coach to quickly “recruit” over him if that attitude does not change. I did like, as I said above, that Liggins asserted his leadership and led in the talking among the players during the game. It just seems that the entire team isn’t used to talking to each other.

by Blueobsessed on Nov 30, 2008 4:49 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Rebounding, defense, free throw shooting...

…our performance in these three factors is why we won.

Harrellson and Miller deserve heaps of praise for the way they attacked the glass. Against K-State, we allowed 16 offensive rebounds. WVU only got 6 last night and we outrebounded them by 10 overall. With so many turnovers, we simply MUST limit teams to one shot, and we did that for the most part last night.

Fun statistic: K-State and WVU had shot 44 more shots than us over the weekend…and we still won both games. Wow.

by BBallSophist on Nov 30, 2008 12:05 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Another great game for Jorts

Harrelson provided just what we needed from him again – solid screens, powerful posting up, rebounds, and most importantly for this game – MADE LAYUPS. Nice work from the free-throw line too. Not a marquis player like Meeks or Patterson, but you need this kind of play to succeed. Still, he needs to actually block out when rebounding, not just rely on his size and position. Great work, and glad to see he is living up to the hype of his recruitment. I think the best lineup is Jorts/Patterson/Meeks/Liggins + either Miller or Razor, whoever is playing better that day. This is mainly because Jorts can set some screens to keep Patterson from being double teamed as easily.

Speaking of layups, what was up with our layups in the first half? Hopefully they are going to have to replace the hoops at the Craft Center from all the dunking practice on them this week.

I think we finally got to see some of the “toughness” that Billy G. has been talking about all season but we haven’t seen. We really didn’t let WVU get to us, despite poor shooting in the first half and a big deficit. Also, we were back on the floor 17.5 hours after the previous game, and worn out, but we played on! This is great because it really simulates the kind of post-season tournament environment we are going to be in. Even though the games aren’t quite this close together, they are pretty close still compared to the regular season. Credit goes to the much-maligned game-day practices.

Great coaching by Billy G. in both games. Especially K-St. I loved the weave play that set up the back door. People love to jump on coach when things don’t go well, but he definitely out-coached his competition yesterday, and those were both well-coached teams.

Awesome team defense by UK against WVU. We really shut them down. We are finally getting the pressure defense, and that was the difference in the game for us. With our size, we should really cause some problems for teams if we can continue to improve on defense. Can you remember any “gimme” shots that either K-State or WVU got because of a ridiculous defensive breakdown? I can’t. But I can remember some earlier in the year. We are definitely improving.

If we could get down to say 12 turnovers per game, we would be a top 10 team, IMHO. These turnovers are keeping teams in the game that we would otherwise be punishing.

I can’t believe, with Huggins sitting there watching the K-St. game, that WVU didn’t press us more. They must have been totally unprepared to press.

Meeks didn’t shoot well, but he did show a lot of fortitude. My favorite play of his was the defensive read of the double screen near the end of the game, resulting in a steal. He saw exactly what was going to happen, didn’t show his hand, but got in position for the steal. Then he used his awesome speed for a steal and an easy 2 on the other end. I also liked that he didn’t take too many bad shots. Teams are going to start keying on Meeks with the kind of dominant games he has like K-State, and you could see some of that against WVU. Still had some turnovers, but otherwise a good game.

Patterson played very well I thought. He did a much better job getting position and muscling around underneath like we haven’t seen since last year. He had his man posted so many times, ready to score. We still need to do a better job of getting him the ball, but we’ll get there. Excellent positioning and rebounding on the defensive end as well. He’s still our star!

Miller’s defense improved. I don’t have the stats, but it seemed to me he reduced his fouls per minute. That’s definitely good. Overall, not as good a game as he has had offensively. But he’s a freshman and this is tough competition, so I’m not down on him. Like Tru says, great job on their star shooter.

The Razor seemed a little lost. He has had some solid games for us though, so he’s entitled to an off game.

Stevenson didn’t have a good day. He needs to show some more toughness. As usual, he got totally pushed around on both sides of the floor in both games. He didn’t do a great job rebounding or scoring. He really needs to practice hard or he is in serious danger of losing his starting spot to Jorts.

Porter played tough against K. State and had a good game for him. But he wasn’t up for WVU – too many typical Porter turnovers from the start.

Liggins looked really good and showed why he should be playing the point. I can’t wait until Liggins gets comfortable in the offensive scheme. He has shown some flashes of great 1-on-1 moves that I can’t wait to see get worked into his normal play. I love his court vision, especially on the break, and his height is a huge help to making passes into the post. Glad he decided that he wanted to play. Hopefully we won’t have any repeats of that. Hopefully by postseason time, he will have quit making “freshman turnovers”.

by EEWildcat on Nov 30, 2008 12:17 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Boy, I must have been watching a different game.

I must say I did not see the Liggins you (and at least a few others) saw. I try to be optimistic, but to me (and at least a few others) DeAndre was so bad and looked so lost throughout the game that the chat board I was blogging on was ready to write him off, and save the scholarship (a discussion spurred by his Friday refusal to go into the game when the team needed him).

He missed three out of the four shots he took, had the same four turnovers he has every game he plays for more than 2 minutes (21 TO’s on the year, and counting), and even fell down on defense to let his man score that killer three that almost put them emotionally back in the game when the score was about 39 to 36 or so. I mean, the kid just fell down!

To me, in addition to the obvious emotional issues, the kid just doesn’t look very bright. I don’t want to be any more negative than that on a public blog that the young man might read, but dang it, he continually makes choices that would enrage any coach, and it is far, far too late in the day to be attributing it to freshman jitters. It’s not a matter of physical limitations (which I think is some of Michael Porter’s problem); I just honestly don’t know whether the guy is smart enough to play the point at an SEC school. The same stupid passes over and over and over, the same missed defensive assignments, the same dubious offensive value (those great one-on-one moves you saw produced a whopping 25% shooting per centage; I can’t get excited about that).

And it’s not just because he’s a freshman — Darius Miller plays smart and is a joy to watch. I love the guy. He makes DeAndre look like Sgt. Schulz from Hogan’s Heroes. The only thing that DeAndre seems to have going for him is that he does see the floor action really well, as you point out, and makes some great passes for assists — as good as anyone on the team for that matter.

Porter was clearly drained and did have an off night, but at least he had an excuse — he had just had to play nearly the entire game against K-State at least in part because a certain whiney freshman had thrown a tantrum and refused to come off the bench and spell him so he could get some rest. As bad as he was, however, he still had no more turnovers than Liggins (they both had 4 in the game), and going into the game Porter was one of only two Cats to have a positive Assist to Tunrover Ratio (along with Patterson). In Turnovers per Forty Minutes, Liggins is WAY worse than Porter.

Comparing Porter’s performance against K-State to Liggins’ performance against WVU, Porter had more rebounds, more assists, and more points — and on fewer shots (50% versus 25%). They had the same 4 turnovers. Against that background, I just don’t understand all the accolades for Liggins and all of the same tired bashing of Porter when the facts don’t seem to justify it. I guess it’s just wishful thinking.

This is one area where I do not share the Big Blue optimism. I’m not sure rushing DeAndre into the line-up is the answer to anything.

by Ken Pomeroy on Nov 30, 2008 10:31 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I wasn't quite as encouraged by Liggin's performance last night as a lot of other people's...

…but I’m also no where near as down on him as you seem to be.

First, his defense was very good last night. Yeah, he fell down on that one play, but for the most part I thought he was very effective on defense. Maybe out of position at times, but it’s only the 6th game of the season and he’s so long that at least he can make up for his mistakes often.

Also, everyone who saw Liggins play a lot in prep/high school said that his problem early in his college career would be turnovers. He tries to force way too many passes, that’s for sure, but I have little doubt that eventually Gillispie will reign him in. To say that 6 games into the season is “far, far too late in the day” to attribute his mistakes to his inexperience is silly to me. I think by the time SEC play begins it may be appropriate to say such things, but I think it’s way, way to early in the day to decide that his mistakes aren’t still due, in large part, to his inexperience.

Liggins just looks more comfortable with the ball in his hands than porter. Yes, he has more turnovers (21 to 18), but he also has more assists (20 to 16…the most on the team). He has 4 more assists than Porter in 17 minutes less playtime. Porter’s turnovers seem due to a lack of confidence and talent, and Liggin’s are due to overconfidence and inexperience. Liggins is shooting 45% from the floor and 37.5% from 3-point range, and Porter is shooting 38.9% from the floor and 36.4% from 3-point range, so while Liggins didn’t have a good shooting night against WVU, I don’t think it’s indicative of how he’s performed all season (brief as it may be), especially compared to Porter.

by BBallSophist on Dec 1, 2008 12:07 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I see your points

But I think the decision making is just a lack of maturity for Liggins. He tries a lot of “high school” type plays that just don’t work at this level. And the “I’m not going in” thing was definitely immature. We’ve been spoiled lately with some great, mature freshmen (Patterson last year and Miller this year). But not every freshman is that way. Don’t you think Liggins has improved from the beginning of the year? I do. That said, there’s no guarantee that he will mature into the player I think he will, but I’m hoping so.

On the “fell down” play, it looked to me like Liggins got tripped by a screen. Yeah, he should fight through it and get up sooner instead of laying there waiting for a whistle. Another maturity thing, IMHO.

But other than that, Liggins played some very good defense and took a couple of key charges IIRC. He had a good game and is improving. I don’t think he’s “there” yet, but what I see is improvement and potential, and that gives me some hope. He will continue to stumble but I think he’ll be very good for us in march.

I like Porter, and I want him to succeed and I think he’s been put in a bad spot. I don’t think he’s a bad player at all. He just doesn’t have the physical gifts that Liggins has. He had a good game against K-State, and I was really impressed with his toughness. Liggins barely showed up, literally.

I understand this is a general reply, and not to me specifically. But as for the WVU game performance, you are not going to convince me that 1 assist and 4 turnovers in 13 minutes (Porter) is better than 3 assists and 4 turnovers in 27 minutes (Liggins). Liggins leads in assists per minute and lack of turnovers per minute for the WVU game. Also there were some good long passes and lobs that don’t count as turnovers because the ball got bounced on the floor, but enabled the points just as an assist might. (Likewise there were some of these for Porter against K. St)

by EEWildcat on Dec 1, 2008 1:31 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I do not like the stunt

that DL pulled.With that said,Porter is not the answer.DL has more upside.I think we will see how both parties(coach and player) handle this.I do expect some form of discipline,and we will see what happens.Sometimes an act of defiance “can” be an act of leadership,if that individual steps up to the plate.

by -Zoso- on Dec 1, 2008 6:42 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Porter

Was recruited as back-up guard to Meeks at 2 and Jasper at 1.

Liggins in place of Jasper now.

Why not play Galloway a little?

by FortyYearCatFan on Dec 1, 2008 7:00 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Ken, there are different types of being "bright". Liggins has the athletic "smarts" and

the experience of playing at a higher level. However, it is one thing to play LG on a AAU five star ladden high school team and playing at KY. Still, I believe the problem at the LG position is not just “heady” play. The team itself is not spacing itself so the LG can be effective. For example:

  • as a Wing player or Post player where do I go immediately after my teammate gets a rebound?
       -if I run down the court , am I leaving my LG to fend for himself
       -if I run down the court am I inviting the high-risk long pass that can be deflected?
       -or do I immediately space myself in a position to accept a pass and “assist” in bringing the ball up the court?
  • are there set plays that call for me to be at a certain place in the play? Who calls those plays?
  • how do I wave off lobs?
    *how do I prepare myself for a pass?

IMHO most of the team is still playing one-on-one basketball and hoping for rebounds. There still needs to be more communication between the players on the floor and working as a team to execute specific plays. Jodie’s problems will go away when he feels that he has help with the offense and doesn’t have to force plays. That is when he turns the ball over.

Bottom line the LG position is weak for whatever reason. It requires team support. With the exception of an unforced turnover, it takes two players to create a turnover. Not being in the correct place or lack of communication really increases the chance for a turnover. The turnover/communication issue is a team problem.

by Blueobsessed on Dec 1, 2008 8:41 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Wings

The wings are definitley not helping the point guards out at all. No one comes to meet the ball on a pass or on a tie up and they leave the point guard stranded trying to make a play. I have also noticed a dearth of off the ball screens. We screen on the ball quite a bit but no one screens off the ball to open their teamates up. It’s disappointing.

DEEETROIT BASKETBALLL!!!

by davw83 on Dec 1, 2008 1:07 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

So true.

The wings are just ignoring the point and running their set, or just standing around. Few picks, even fewer help-outs when the point guard is being face-guarded.

At this point, UK needs a confident ballhandler. Back when Prince was here and Saul Smith used to get into trouble against tough defenders, Prince would bring up the ball. Gillispie had Patterson doing some handling in Vegas and that’s fine, but when you do that, you have to clear out the other defenders first. You can’t attempt to let Patterson handle in a press situation, because the help is going to force him into a mistake. He’s a solid ball handler against big guys, but he’s no Tayshaun Prince.

We need Liggins primarily because he is the same kind of confident ballhandler Prince was. He knows how to use his length do disadvantage defenders and get the ball successfully up the floor, and is learning not to pick up his dribble unless there is a pass to be made. That will knock about 6 turnovers a game off, all by itself.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Dec 2, 2008 2:47 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Good win.

It’s amazing how a win can change your outlook. At the end of the K-State game I was actually down with the way we were playing despite the win and would say the same for the first half of the WVU game. But we fight back and win and I like what I am seeing a lot more as most of us on here are. This game reminded me of a lot of games last season when we should have been beat but found a way to win. Good gutsy performance and we played tough!

Xbox Live Gamertag: hoopchi

by hoopchi on Nov 30, 2008 1:19 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

short turn around

i think the short time periods between games has really helped the cats (playing the last 4 games in 5 days). Maybe coach g doesn’t do those pre game practices when we only have one night to rest

by hummer11092 on Nov 30, 2008 2:58 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

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