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Friday Morning Open Thread

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I am working on two or three pieces right now and I know Ken is working on one, but none of them is yet ready to hit the bricks just yet.  So for your Friday morning amusement, I thought we would put up an open thread to talk about Wildcat basketball, or really, anything else sports-related on your mind

Kentucky has four basketball games in the seven days starting from tomorrow, all of them related to the Las Vegas Invitational.  We'll be looking at each game in depth as we always do, of course, starting with Delaware State later today.  But for now, just a few things that are in the news today that might provide fodder for discussion:

  • Matt Jones says that we need Liggins at point guard, and we need him there right now.  Essentially, Matt makes the argument (he makes it more tactfully, mind you, but I am cutting to the chase here) that there is no way Liggins could possibly be any more awful than Porter has been.  I'm afraid I have to agree.  Porter simply isn't confident enough bringing the ball up, and an awful lot of our turnovers are occurring between our own baseline and the half court line.

    We need a guard to set the table and get the ball up the floor successfully, and Liggins seems capable.  Yes, he too often tries that magician's trick were you try to jerk the tablecloth from underneath the place settings that so often ends in calamity, but I think it's worth a try.  But we know how Billy Gillispie thinks by now, and if Liggins doesn't earn the job in practice, he has a better chance of signing up to play for the Boston Celtics right now than starting at UK.
  • Mike Miller at MSNBC's Beyond the Arc takes a look at a couple of upsets last night, including Michigan's win over #4 UCLA, and an outrageous game between Texas Tech and East Central (Oklahoma) where the final score was 167- 115.  Yes, you read that right.
  • Eric Crawford says ESPN is too big for its britches, and tells us why.  It's a bit disturbing.  He references this post at AwfulAnnouncing, and somehow this slipped past my radar.  At least Barad Dûr had the good grace to back out of this thing before it actually happened.  I have a hard time working up too much outrage, even though I would very much like to.  Sometimes these things slip through the cracks at big media companies.

    You do have to worry about the advertising firm that proposed this, though.  And another interesting thing -- is it just me, or are the North Carolina schools the only ones who come out looking just a little too perfect?  Hmmm.  One might wonder if the ad firm were trying to kowtow to a known (or perceived) ESPN touchstone.

Discuss away.  Happy Friday.

Poll
Will Billy Gillispie start DeAndre Liggins at the point against Delaware State?
Yes. He has to do something.
229 votes
No. Liggins is not ready.
81 votes
Who is DeAndre Liggins?
6 votes
Who is Mike Porter?
9 votes
Where's Waldo?
44 votes

369 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs  |  Comment 59 comments |

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Comments

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Kansas State Game

Is that game REALLY at midnight???

by kentuckygirl0724 on Nov 21, 2008 8:53 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

9:00 ...

… Las Vegas time = 12:00 midnight here.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Nov 21, 2008 9:04 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Eric Crawford was scrapping for column material

That ESPN casting call was supposedly a private email sent to a casting call network. Somebody leaked it from there. It was never really official. It was funny, in the sense you saw somebody commit career suicide over half-terrible stereotypes.

by TheFakeGimelMartinez on Nov 21, 2008 8:59 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Yeah ...

… but in reality, its the kind of thing that really makes you wonder.

Crawford’s column was more about ESPN’s vastly increased power since winning the BCS lottery, anyway.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Nov 21, 2008 9:06 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Hard foul?

When Boyle knocked Singler to the floor last night in the SIU/Duke game, and the intentional foul was called, Shulman brought up the “similar situation” at UNC, when Harris committed a “hard foul” against Zeller. What I noticed that was interesting, was the the offical under the basket made no call at all. It was only after a conference with the official at half court, who happened to be in earshot of K, was anything called. (In fairness, the replay showed Boyle’s arm in Singler’s back, and was probably the correct call). Very much “unlike” the situation at UNC.

Yes, the North Carolina schools do look a little too perfect.

by racercat98 on Nov 21, 2008 9:14 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Casting Call

I first read about that in a fanshot on this site a few weeks back. It certainly is embarassing.

Michigan beat UCLA 55-52… BenHowlandBall is without a doubt effective (as 3 straight final fours will attest to) but man oh man… they really do try to put you to sleep.

Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."

by chirop1 on Nov 21, 2008 9:21 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Be careful with Liggins...

…what is there really to be gained with starting Liggins so early in the season? He can get playing time and learning time later on in the games. If Billy likes, he can even get more playing time than Porter coming off the bench. The ‘risk’ does not justify the reward. If you start him now and he fails, you have a huge issue…there is no one else to turn. Besides, think of the kick to the stomach to Porter. This move this early runs the risk of hurting the confidence of both…

'..when they bring a knife, you bring a gun...that's the Chicago way..'

by HozeKing on Nov 21, 2008 9:21 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

What risk ...

… is that, exactly? 28 turnovers? Oh, wait …

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Nov 21, 2008 10:11 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Options in the poll

I went with “No. He’s not ready” but I think I would have been more appropriately classified as “No. Gillispie is too stubborn.”

Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."

by chirop1 on Nov 21, 2008 9:22 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

I was also looking for an option about not starting Liggens because Gillespie is stubborn as a mule.

Del Tha Funky Homosapien
formerly known as senowen

by Mr. Bob Dobalina on Nov 21, 2008 12:28 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Porter

should NOT start – plain and simple.

by kentuckygirl0724 on Nov 21, 2008 9:40 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

He Didn't Start In 2007 Season

He was a back-up at both Gpositions.

by FortyYearCatFan on Nov 21, 2008 10:14 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Personally

I’d like to see Liggins start. I think he brings a lot of good things to the table, and he is surely our LG of the future. Plus, that could get Porter back to SG off the bench a little, which might be a better situation for him. However, this analysis is coming from a guy who last played organized basketball in the 6th grade, and over a three year junior pro career, averaged 10 points per season. So take that for what it’s worth.

I think there’s a legitimate argument for sticking with Porter if he’s really playing better in practice. We all know Gillispie’s mantra is “whoever earns it in practice plays.” We basically assume that’s why we haven’t seen Kevin Galloway lately; he doesn’t practice well, whatever that means to Coach.

Now, pretend you are Kevin Galloway. You’d love to see the floor right now, but Coach says your practice isn’t up to snuff. Liggins makes no discernible improvement in his practice habits, yet he all of a sudden goes from the bench to starting. Coach just undermined his argument with you, and you are now (perhaps) less motivated to work hard. Coach will make an exception if things get bad enough. Perhaps you become a problem in the locker room because of this double standard.

Now I don’t know Galloway. He may be way above that kind of stuff. He may work his butt off every second of every practice regardless. And, of course, you could plug in a lot of other names for “Galloway” in the above scenario. The bottom line is, this coach thinks good practice is what produces good games. He reinforces this by assigning PT based on practice. If that’s going to be your philosophy, you have to stick to it, or you’re going to lose the confidence of your players, and it’s going to get really ugly when that happens. You can argue about whether it’s the right philosophy, but UK is betting a lot of money on the idea that it is.

by Acdixon on Nov 21, 2008 9:55 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Practice

I just think – and have said before – that I understand Gillispie’s earn your starting time in practice theory, but I think that there comes a time when you have to recognize that it doesnt matter how well someone does in practice if they are unable to transfer that to a game. You can be the best in practice but if you are unable to perform on the court against a real opponent, then you are of no use to the team in a game situation. I really think that this may be the case with Porter. Sure, he may be tearing it up in practice, but come game time he is a different player.

by kentuckygirl0724 on Nov 21, 2008 10:00 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

See: Sieber, Lones

C! A! T! S! CATS! CATS! CATS!

by NYCCats on Nov 21, 2008 10:23 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

And how many times

did we hear that “Josh Carrier really lights it up in practice”?

by racercat98 on Nov 21, 2008 10:47 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Like I said

You can disagree with the philosophy (I’m kind of in between on it, but more against than for) but that’s Coach’s way, and I think he probably has to stick to it or lose credibility with his team. I expect that it’ll be moot soon anyway, as I expect Liggins to start having better practices than Porter the longer he’s on the team anyway. At the least, we might see Porter do the Coury “two minutes and you’re out” gig just to maintain credibility, but Liggins get the lion’s share of the minutes.

That’s the way Coach G operates, it seems. We’ll either have to like it or get over it, but I don’t see it changing.

by Acdixon on Nov 21, 2008 11:25 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I would agree with this.

I especially agree with what you said about Liggins having better practices than Porter eventually. Your post was excellent, but if I could just add my two cents as well………. : )

I think the fact that Liggins is just now adapting to life as a college freshman off the court in addition to a college freshman who is being asked to contribute immediately and immensely on the court (contrast this to Porter who is in his second year with BCG (third year in college) and knows what is expected of him and has had the time to adapt to both life in college as well as BCG’s practice structure) and it’s probably a bit overwhelming for Liggins right now. I most definitely feel that Liggins in the better all-around athlete of the two but he quite obviously and understandably due to his age probably isn’t always in the right place at all the right times right now (which as we all know gives the boys extra "points" with Coach) but eventually, given just a bit more time to learn what is expected of him that he will adapt and he will certainly earn the starting spot for himself by following the practice structure that the coaching staff has set. And, as you say, Coach Gillispie won’t have to change his approach (which I don’t think is real likely anyway) and the very stringent "you practice well, you get to play" standpoint will still be intact.

Heck, maybe BCG starting Porter right now is making Liggins better faster as he (Liggins) is probably dying to earn that starting spot and hopefully working his little behind off? That’s my hope anyway.

by BigSkyCat on Nov 21, 2008 12:26 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Must cut down turnovers

I really don’t care if they start Galloway, Liggins, or Williams at point guard but they need to get someone who can do the job with minimal turnovers. Many others on the team are just as guilty as the point guard, but since the point guard initiates the offense then it is even more important that he not turn the ball over.

by gright on Nov 21, 2008 10:12 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Watchout for the Longwood Lancers...

They did beat Gardner-Webb this year!

Two months (!). Two weeks. Two pencils.

by Thomas Hunt Morgan on Nov 21, 2008 10:19 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I heard

that Longwood is somewhat similar to VMI in the sense that they keep a very fast pace in their games and are a pretty good scoring team. Any truth to this?

by kentuckygirl0724 on Nov 21, 2008 11:56 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Liggins Superior Talent

Without question, Liggins has more talent than Porter, but has Liggins mastered the offensive or defensive scheme of Gillispie? Ultimately, Liggins will be the LG for this team. Perhaps Gillispie recognized that on the road at the #1 team in the country can be a tough place to cut your teeth for a freshman point guard. Perhaps Gillispie thought Porter, while not making spectacular plays, would be durable enough, to at least not cost the team the UNC game the way an inexperienced LG could?

Because us fans aren’t privy to practice and must base all our decisions on game play, coaches have a reliable—albeit extremely maddening—reason to excuse a player’s poor game performance as inconsistent with their practice performance.

Rich Brooks does this all the time with Lones Sebier. While Sebier’s in-game performance at kicking has been dubious at best, Brooks often dismisses this saying he makes his FG in practice.

Bottom line, most of us are basing these decisions on two regular seasons games this year and the potential/hype of Liggins. Viewed through that limited prism, however, I think starting Liggins would be a prudent choice.

Two months (!). Two weeks. Two pencils.

by Thomas Hunt Morgan on Nov 21, 2008 10:15 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

I Don't Care If He Has Mastered Anything

Porter hasn’t, either. Time for Liggins to play with the clock reading 20:00 in the half.

by FortyYearCatFan on Nov 21, 2008 10:26 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

AGREE 100%

Porter would be ok coming off the bench. Im also in agreement with Gallaway at least seeing the floor. He has played in a litte, very minor, college ball. Isnt he a juco transfer? He’s a tall guard that looks like he can handle the rock. Just please get porter out of the starting lineup. Good practice does not equal good games for him.

by ashbergh on Nov 21, 2008 10:47 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Galloway

is a JUCO transfer, but wasn’t he at USC before that. He may have seen the floor at least a few times for USC a few years ago? Forty, where are you on this one?

by blbskue on Nov 21, 2008 10:50 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Ah - found it myself:

“As a freshman at USC, Galloway played in 13 games and averaged 12.8 minutes. He scored 2.8 points a game, while also averaging 2.2 assists and 2.0 rebounds for the Trojans.”

by blbskue on Nov 21, 2008 10:52 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Limited PT At USC (None At Fresno St)

But YES he should be playing in the cupcake games.

by FortyYearCatFan on Nov 21, 2008 12:44 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I was

also a bit surprised that none of our sharp-shooting walk-ons saw any time against VMI, considering they saw tons of time in the exhibition games.

by blbskue on Nov 21, 2008 1:26 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Liggins v. Porter

First, I was hoping the poll would read “Should” rather than “Will.” I voted Yes, because he should, and Liggins is ready enough considering the situation. I don’t think Billy will start him yet.

Liggins does make mistakes, and tries to be flashy, but it seemed to me that our only signs of life during the UNC game came with Liggins running the point. The offense completely stagnated when Porter was there.

I agree with the opinion that Porter should come off the bench as a SG, and should never play the LG/PG spot. He wasn’t recruited as such, and he will not ever be good there. I think he could actually be an effective shooter as a backup SG, and put in 2-4 3’s per game. When Jasper came back last year, and Porter spent some time at backup SG, he started scoring more. Put him in at backup SG, give him 8-12 minutes/game, and I think results could be surprising.

by blbskue on Nov 21, 2008 10:37 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

100% Agree

Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."

by chirop1 on Nov 21, 2008 10:43 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'd like to see Golloway on the floor for...

..more then 24 secs…! I would at least like to see him in action when UK’s is being pressed…
Until then, I’ve seen plenty of Porter to know that the kid is just not good enough.. Not saying Porter is not good, just not good enough for a typical UK point guard..
Liggins should start at this point…

hey, after watching the 1st 2 games, in all honestly, Meeks has been the most consistent at playing the point…

Steelers fan 1st! UK is my 2nd love.

by vinceuk1 on Nov 21, 2008 10:43 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Also interesting

During the Vandy/Illinois game last night the NCAA stat leaders were scrolled along the top, and Meeks is currently the #1 scorer in all of college basketball at 29.0 ppg. After his 39 against VMI, if he can get 20+/game he might be able to hold that title for at least a few more weeks.

Too bad we’re sitting at 0-2.

by blbskue on Nov 21, 2008 10:48 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

0-2, bad.... seeing a Kentucky player #1 in scoring, EXCELLENT...

I also think that Meeks will have more 30+ games for the simple reason that Patterson just does not seem right or healthy or whatever… Somethings wrong, so Meeks will be ask to carry the load…

And carry the load he shall!!!

Steelers fan 1st! UK is my 2nd love.

by vinceuk1 on Nov 21, 2008 10:53 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The rest of the story

Meeks’ stat line:
shooting %: .383 ( that’s 38.3 %), (2nd worst on team)
APG: 1
TO: 5.5 (tied with Liggins for lead on team)
PPS: 1.3

Two months (!). Two weeks. Two pencils.

by Thomas Hunt Morgan on Nov 21, 2008 11:07 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

i wasn't saying he's the next Jordan..

But this team will depend on Jodie for scoring… LOTS OF SCORING…

Besides, those numbers are more reflective of his 5-20, 6 TO game against UNC… he shoot 48% against VMI…
But thanx for keeping me on my toes… lol

Steelers fan 1st! UK is my 2nd love.

by vinceuk1 on Nov 21, 2008 11:15 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Personally,

I don’t want to see Meeks leading the country in scoring. If he ends up leading the country in scoring all season that does not bode well for the Cats. That means others are not taking up their share of the load forcing Meeks to take numerous ill-advised unopen shots. If Meeks leads the country in scoring I don’t think the Cats will win more than 15 games this season.

Del Tha Funky Homosapien
formerly known as senowen

by Mr. Bob Dobalina on Nov 21, 2008 1:05 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree....

I believe that if we took the time to check the stats, we would find that most NCAA champs have very balanced scoring with four or more players avg. double figures. Kansas in ‘88 could be an exception, as Danny Manning carried the bulk of the load, but I think he avg. about 24 ppg, and Hersey Hawkins at Bradley was in the mid-30’s that year.

by racercat98 on Nov 21, 2008 1:22 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Will Liggins start? Probably not.

Should Liggins start? That’s an entirely different kettle of chips.

I agree with what many have said here and elsewhere that the sooner Liggins gets to start, the sooner he will improve. You can talk all you want about Liggins needing to be “ready” (whatever that means) before he starts at PG, but the fact is Porter isn’t much more experienced than Liggins is, especially at the point.

Coming into the season, Porter played a total of 580 minutes in 54 games his first two seasons. That’s about 10.7 mpg. To put that in perspective, Patterson eclipsed that mark after 17 games last year (590 minutes). Ramel Bradley played 950 minutes his first two years, and that was as a backup to Rondo.

I mention this to point out that Porter is hardly the experienced vet who has seen it all. He is basically on even footing with Liggins when it comes to running a team. Given that, the only logical thing to do is to start the best guy you have.

"That's not a Sherman tank, it's Frank Thomas!" - Monkeyball

by JLeverenz on Nov 21, 2008 11:08 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

And

where better to get game-time experience than games against the likes of Delaware State. I’d rather let him learn the ropes there than against Louisville or any SEC team. He’s performing just as well as Porter right now, and give him a game or two of significant minutes, and he might be leaps and bounds improved by the time conference play begins.

by blbskue on Nov 21, 2008 11:18 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Games

What will we do without Tru to provide the live threads for our Vegas tournament games??

by kentuckygirl0724 on Nov 21, 2008 11:17 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

I plan on staying up and watching both games

Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."

by chirop1 on Nov 21, 2008 11:18 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Have no fear ...

… You will always get open game threads.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Nov 21, 2008 11:19 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

YES..!!!

I’ll have my usual Knob Creek at the ready, but may have to mix in some coffee at half time…lol
Coffee & Kentucky Straight..hummmm Don’t they have a name for that? lol

Steelers fan 1st! UK is my 2nd love.

by vinceuk1 on Nov 21, 2008 11:24 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Not sure

but it’s good (I prefer Woodford in my coffee).

by blbskue on Nov 21, 2008 11:24 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

It’s called breakfast.

C! A! T! S! CATS! CATS! CATS!

by NYCCats on Nov 21, 2008 12:42 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Tru

I posted that link to the Awful Announcing article as a fan post on the 13th.

Glad to see no one cares what I say!

kidding….

by btcoop71 on Nov 21, 2008 11:59 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

I must ...

… have missed it. It happens. I’m not sure how, but it does sometimes happen.

Sorry I missed it.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Nov 21, 2008 1:47 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Take heart friend....

many of us read it, but there just wasn’t much you could say about it. The KSR folks ran with it though.

by racercat98 on Nov 21, 2008 2:01 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

ESPN Casting Call

The article said that Indiana and Kentucky’s “descriptions” were the most insulting of all. Anyone know what they were?

by kentuckygirl0724 on Nov 21, 2008 2:41 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Nothing that I read........

included an Indiana or Kentucky’s description. The bloggers on KSR started making up their own, but there was nothing in the casting call that I read about Hoosiers or ’Cats.

by racercat98 on Nov 21, 2008 2:54 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re-read the article
I’d give you Indiana and Kentucky’s descriptions, too, but theirs were the most insulting kind of all — not included in the commercial

He’s saying that the insult was that neither Indiana nor Kentucky are good enough to be included in the commercial. I missed it the first time I read over it too.

Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."

by chirop1 on Nov 21, 2008 3:01 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Ohhhhhhhhhhh

I get it now. Thanks chirop1!

by kentuckygirl0724 on Nov 21, 2008 3:04 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

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