Time to talk about the Big Game -- Kentucky vs. North Carolina
by Glenn Logan on Nov 17, 2008 8:19 AM EST
in Kentucky Wildcats Basketball
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I decided to take Sunday off from serious blogging. Even God rested on Sunday. But the time has come to talk about the mighty University of North Carolina Tarheels, a team that has dominated us in every respect (except Tyler Hansbrough) for the last four years running.
It truly grates on my nerves that we have been so futile against this team recently. In an odd twist of fate, North Carolina was a team against whom we had great success during the early part of this decade winning four in a row, but the last four years, our fortunes have reversed. Now the Wildcats limp into Chapel Hill having lost for the second time in as many years to a team that was counted as an automatic victory when the schedule was made.
Regarding that VMI loss, one point that nobody really made was the fact that we were uncompetitive against Gardener-Webb, and never really had a chance to win that game. The same cannot be said about VMI, although anyone can argue that we never should have been 20+ points down to such a team in the first place. But be that as it may, let's hope the lessons we take away from that unfortunate game serve us well in the future.
The future, my brothers and sisters of the Big Blue Nation, is just about here. Our tilt tomorrow night with North Carolina will be replete with "tut-tut" references about our loss to VMI, and all sorts of talk about our recent domination at the hands of the Tarheels. Turn off the audio if you must, but don't let it get to you. This is a matchup that will really tell us where we are right now. There are no gimmicks in the UNC offense to trip us up, no crazy mismatches, just talented, experienced players and a deep, talented bench. This is a straight-up basketball game, and a chance for the Wildcats to announce to the world that the days of futility are over.
Conversely, it is also an opportunity for us to start the 2008-09 season 0-2 and drive the Big Blue Faithful into recriminations and disarray. That's what happens around here when things go badly, and it gets progressively harder for our fans to have patience when expectations are so high. In fact, given the tremendous talent we are facing and the fact we are facing it on the road, the odds are that my post mortem on tomorrow's game will be another exercise in frustration. Those are the odds, but I hope we beat them and frankly, think we can.
I'll get to the stats later, but one thing we do know is that UNC is without two of the guys who eschewed the riches of the NCAA to come back for another year under Ol' Roy -- Marcus Ginyard and most likely Tyler Hansbrough. I have lamented not being able to face the 'Heels at full strength because it puts a virtual asterisk by an victory, but after the VMI game, I am no longer of that opinion. I'll take the "W" if we can get it, asterisk and all.
There is no way the 'Cats are as talented as the 'Heels this year, and that will matter. But as we amply saw on Friday, talent doesn't always carry the day. North Carolina has been a historically slow-starting team under Roy Williams, and their victory against a badly banged-up Penn Quakers team, while solid, was hardly the kind of performance that will strike fear into the hearts of the Wildcats.
Kentucky's team this year matches up very well with the Tarheels in every position but one, and that is point guard. Michael Porter, in all probability, cannot guard Ty Lawson at all, and certainly not in the open floor, and neither can DeAndre Liggins at this point in his career. Not only that, backup PG Bobby Frasor is healthy and is also a match-up problem due to his experience. That's going to be a problem. But otherwise, UK matches up very well against Carolina athletically, size-wise and depth wise. Their talent is better, but not overwhelmingly so.
As I said, I'll have more in-depth stuff later, but let's hear your thoughts on this game.
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can not express how badly I need for Kentucky to win against the TarHeels. I NEED them to win if for no other reason than I can go around to all the people that are dogging us SO hard after Friday’s loss and just say, “OHHH YEAH! How about THAT!” ;)
by kentuckygirl0724 on Nov 17, 2008 9:25 AM EST reply actions
That'd be nice too
Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."
I want us to be competitive
As you note, we don’t have the talent to hang with the Heels at this stage. Its a position the Tarheels were in compared to us as recently as 5 years ago. These things fluctuate and I know we’ll be back on top at some point in the future.
For now, what I want us to demonstrate to the nation is that we are capable of competing on the highest level of the college basketball stage this year. If we win, that’s even better.
Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."
North Carolina
We have just as much business beating North Carolina in Chapel-Hill as VMI had beating us at Rupp Arena!
by kentuckygirl0724 on Nov 17, 2008 9:29 AM EST reply actions
In other words....
LETS DO IT!!!!!!! GO CATS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by kentuckygirl0724 on Nov 17, 2008 9:29 AM EST up reply actions
Defend the SEC's honor
I’ll be pulling for you, but I’ve gotta be honest. I think this is going to get pretty ugly.
Orange and Blue Hue: The World through GATOR-colored Glasses -- http://www.orangeandbluehue.com
I think ...
… you may be very surprised.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Glenn Logan on Nov 17, 2008 10:04 AM EST up reply actions
I hope...
… you are right.
Orange and Blue Hue: The World through GATOR-colored Glasses -- http://www.orangeandbluehue.com
So do I. :-) My percentage hasn't been very good lately. Maybe I'm due.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Glenn Logan on Nov 17, 2008 12:45 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah
It could get ugly, but hopefully Patterson will be rid of some “rust” and play much better than he did the other night. What makes me nervous is how well UNC’s freshman played Saturday. Zeller had 18 points and there other big freshman Ed Davis had 14 rebounds.
My thoughts
Good good post. I feel that we won’t be in dissaray if we lose though. We are playing the number one team in the nation at NC. I cannot even imagine what the spread is. What is important is that if we do lose that we stand together as Big Blue Nation. We don’t stop believing in these guys. This is such a young team versus an experienced team. We still must show our faith even if we lose tomorrow night. Mentality is important in this sport. We need to show them that we love and believe in them no matter what.
UNC
Asterik aside beating UNC would be good for our RPI, which doesnt take the fact that Ginyard and Hansbrough are out into consideration at the end of the season.
I think we might see Ramon on Lawson. We are big enough on the perimeter that I think Liggins could cover whoever their backup small forward is.
DEEETROIT BASKETBALLL!!!
Precedent...
…the last time UK started 0-2 was in 200-01, when they went to New York and lost to St. Johns and UCLA.
Both the Wildcats and my fragile ego could REALLY use a win tomorrow night.
The Heart & Mind of the Big Blue Nation ...
Indeed.
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
by Glenn Logan on Nov 17, 2008 10:24 AM EST up reply actions
uh, after I win the lottery
so between now and friday we are suddenly going to have a viable point guard? excuse me, BG, ‘lead guard’? and maybe this will be the week I win the lottery too.
On TV
At least it is on AFN granted it is on at 5am but hey who cares, it is worth waking up to see the game. Hopefully the cats find a way to win.
UL Football Fan/UK Basketball Fan ~ FOB Kalsu, Iraq
by The White Mandingo on Nov 17, 2008 11:50 AM EST up reply actions
Wait
Rooting for both UL and UK?? Doesn’t that cause the world to tilt off its axis or something?
Good luck over there!
And, thanks.
C! A! T! S! CATS! CATS! CATS!
Yeah Mandingo had a separated fan base growing up.
He explained it on the UL site but not sure about here. Seems someone took him to the UL football games and another family member took him to the UK basketball games. It is strange I admit but I welcome him here for our basketball season. Seems to be a nice guy and is serving in our military, so Kudos. I cannot remember when he said he was due to be back in the states…possibly March?
so glad you said that!
I hadn’t checked the schedule… just had it in my head it was Friday and they had an odd gap in the schedule this week.
You know, I have never been a fair weather fan. Even after Gardner Webb, I made excuses, and rallied hope for improvements…but that loss on Friday really got me.
Guess I better go buy my lottery ticket. Maybe this is a week for miracles.
by StillCatwoman on Nov 17, 2008 6:03 PM EST up reply actions
One thing that has to stop...
The two hours practices on game day… hey Billy, if you don’t have them ready by game day, it ain’t gonna happen!
IMHO…
Now, lets go out and beat the ’heels!!!
Steelers fan 1st! UK is my 2nd love.
There are no two hour practices game day
That’s something that was blown waaay out of proportion last year.
Somebody asked Bill Keightley about the game day practices and he said they were more akin to a walk-through than anything else.
Besides, strenuous game day ‘practices’ should in know way effect the player’s perfomance in a game, unless they are out of shape, which I don’t think is a problem.
It’s kind of funny; we heard all of the same stuff last year. But when your transition defense is as poor as UK’s was the other night, and you turn the ball over 11 more times than your opponent, you’re gonna lose.
As I’ve already noted, losing to anyone on Nov. 14 is not a concern to me, especially considering the ‘lead’ guard situation (which will improve considerably), and Patterson not being in basketball shape (he’s only been running for about 3-4 weeks).
you may or may not be right...
but every report that I hear says that the 2-hour practice is much more then a walk through…
The radio talk shows… Including Kenny Walker
Newspaper…
TV…
I admit, I’ve never been to a practice, so I’m just going by all the reports. As great a man as Mr. Wildcat was, and he was a great man, he would never say anything that would be construed as harsh about his boss, would he..?
Just my opinion of course…
Steelers fan 1st! UK is my 2nd love.
Good point about Keightley ...
… but his demeanor when answering the question (he laughed), and stated basically what I said. I don’ t feel he was being disingenuous + this was later in the season. I heard from multiple people that mid-to-late season last year that Clyde eased up considerably from his early season - Nov. and Dec.- practices (game day or otherwise).
Also, the length of the practice in no way is a determining factor in how strenuous the practice was.
But I always come back to this: I don’t care if he has them running steps at Memorial 20 minutes before tip-off, these guys are in such unbelievable shape (except for Patterson), it should not matter.
There are simply too many major college coaches who practice (at varying levels of intensity) on game day. The practice is not uncommon, or new.
Positives from the VMI game
First and foremost, those guys flat shot with the power of God directly guiding balls to drop. When that happens ANY team is hard to stop. Ask UVA who hung on to a wild ride with VMI and dang near bit it too.
Second, blowouts are NEVER a “learning” experience. No matter the end you are on. Tubby never liked them. He didn’t LOOSE the games but he always tinkered during those early cup cake games and kept them close. We would always pull out to 10, 12 or 17 point wins by the end but it always tested the mental toughness of the team. Ricky P plays the national press and polls and likes to see U of Pitino 105 Berea College 10 when ever possible. Works for rankings but arguably builds nothing of meaning.
The fact that we a)got beat by VMI but b)came back and did not G-Webb the game says one thing as we prepare for tomorrow night – BCG has motivational tool to play “pet the dog, smack the dog, pet the dog, smack the dog” with the egos and attitudes over the last several days. He also got a wake up call for himself and his staff or he played for a tight win and came up short (still a huge lesson)
I think we will look different down tobacco road tomorrow.
Changing how you think will change what you think.
However
I really always thought a balance between Tub’s and Rick’s cup cake approach would be best. Test them a little but don’t loose but also hang 60 on some teams too just to WOW the ESPN scroll and subconsciously stick in the minds of the poll voters.
The OOC Cup cake approach is an endless topic. Do you schedule laughable teams? Do you make it the hardest schedule in basketball? Do you give it all the gas and destroy teams or play it close while you get a look at many formations and lineups?
If anyone has heard BCG specifically talk about this or if there is anyone who has followed UTEP, TAMU etc. and has insight please shed some light. Straight stats won’t really tell me what I want to know. It is more from seeing and feeling.
Changing how you think will change what you think.
Hansbrough out vs UK
here’s the story
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=3708632
Steelers fan 1st! UK is my 2nd love.
Although I believe this will help…
Hansbrough has never played really well against the cats. If memory serves me correctly, last year was the first time he had an impact and even then he wasn’t spectacular. I think he scored most of his points from the line. At any rate, I think we match up well. PG is a concern, but I expect a good game from the cats.
Hmm
I actually thought he might be in the game according to Tru’s newsfeed story that said he practiced hard Friday and Saturday. Oh well.
Dickie V.
So how many times will Dickie V. mention the loss to VMI during tomorrow night’s game against UNC??
by kentuckygirl0724 on Nov 17, 2008 3:00 PM EST reply actions
Dickie V
what will Vitale mention more often: VMI or Ashley Judd?
GO BIG BLUE!! GO BIG BLUE!!
by UKWildCatFanatic on Nov 17, 2008 3:03 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe
he will go one further and ask Ashley Judd her thoughts on VMI….
by kentuckygirl0724 on Nov 17, 2008 3:04 PM EST up reply actions
I smell a poll
Which one of these will Dick Vitale mention most often tomorrow night?
A) UK’s loss to VMI
B) Ashley Judd
C) The fact that UNC is the #1 team in America
D) The fact that UNC is without Hansborough and Ginyard (and maybe Frasor from what I heard.)
like the poll
i’m actually going to sit through Dickie V’s commentary and try and keep track of what he mentions most.
to make sure i get the numbers right, anyone else want to listen to Vitale and help me out? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? :-)
GO BIG BLUE!! GO BIG BLUE!!
by UKWildCatFanatic on Nov 17, 2008 5:21 PM EST up reply actions
Count me in!
I will most certainly be listening!
Although, I should warn you that I am horrible with numbers to start with — but then when you add cocktails on top of the horrible math, well…..I may not be the most reliable. But, I sure will give it the old college try! : )
I'll do it too
"That's not a Sherman tank, it's Frank Thomas!" - Monkeyball
DRINKING GAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Holy Crap (that was a nod to all the religious talk :-)
Judds are one drinks
Tyler man crushes are two
VMI’s are three
Garder-webbs are a full glass
Changing how you think will change what you think.
how am i going to watch the game?
i’m going to be passed out just from his pregame comments!!
you know VMI and Tyler are going to be mentioned (multiple times?) in the first minute. Wouldn’t be surprised if GW is as well.
GO BIG BLUE!! GO BIG BLUE!!
by UKWildCatFanatic on Nov 17, 2008 11:51 PM EST up reply actions
how many times will Dukie V. say...
“I tell, UNC really miss physco T., Kentucky better thnak their lucky stars baby”
I wish I knew how to put a poll up on that one… Anyone..?
less then 5
5-10
10-20
all night long and even in the post comments
Steelers fan 1st! UK is my 2nd love.
Fifty.
Might as well err on the conservative side. :-)
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
I will not listen to the V...
I will have my TV muted and listen to the radio…done for years…only way I can enjoy a UK basketball game when on ESPN.
Call me crazy but...
I truly believe Pat Patterson will show us exactly why we all think he’s a first team AA vs UNC. A true AA steps up and takes over a game of this magnitude! Throw in another great game scoring by Jodie, and we will be in position to win this game late!
Liggins will cement himself as our PG as well!
Couldnt be happier to have UNC on our schedule this early. I think we will look back on these first 2 games in March and know that losing our first game to VMI coming right back to beat the #1 team was exactly what this young, talented team needed!
BigBlue Nation be patient and trust Billy G……I do!
by TonyDelkFan4Life on Nov 17, 2008 3:49 PM EST reply actions
Saturday, not Sunday
"Even God rested on Sunday. "
Sorry amigo. God rested on Saturday. Sunday is the first day of the week! In this case, it looks like the Cats were asleep on the first day :(
Sorry for being pedantic, but the Saturday/Sunday thing is a common misunderstanding.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.
I think
In the book of Genesis, God created the world in the first six days and rested beginning on the Seventh day (actually the night of the sixth). Since Sunday is technically the first day of the week, the seventh day is technically Saturday. Ergo God would have rested on Saturday.
I base that on the creation story, which is based on the Hebrew calendar and not our modern Gregorian calendar. So all bets are off.
I think.
No one ever accused me of being an expert on the ancient history of religion (or anything else for that matter)
Two months (!). Two weeks. Two pencils.
by Thomas Hunt Morgan on Nov 17, 2008 4:27 PM EST up reply actions
Ha! A politics discussion breaks out in one thread...
And a religious discussion here!
Tru’s head must be near exploding!!!
Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."
Ha!
Now for my two cents on the interplay of the global economy and the availability of fungible commodities in light of the Obama presidency…..
/My head just exploded
Two months (!). Two weeks. Two pencils.
by Thomas Hunt Morgan on Nov 17, 2008 4:34 PM EST up reply actions
He's commenting on Tru's post...
where he stated that “Even God rested on Sunday.” Technically Sunday is the first day of the week and appears first on the Gregorian calendar. People often think of Sunday as the seventh day because they like to think that they work on the first five days of the week and have off on the sixth and seventh days.
However, I think Tru probably knows this. The comment that “Even God rested on Sunday” was most likely not meant to be taken seriously.
Del Tha Funky Homosapien
formerly known as senowen
by Mr. Bob Dobalina on Nov 17, 2008 4:39 PM EST up reply actions
Well ...
… color me common. :-)
But thanks for the correction. I think I’ll leave it at Sunday, though. That’s the common understanding, even if it is incorrect. Call it poetic license if you like. :-)
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
Sabbath
The sabbath traditionally is on Saturday. Modern Christian for some reason I cannot remember began worshiping on Sunday and voila sunday becomes the seventh day of the week in the western world.
DEEETROIT BASKETBALLL!!!
Sunday
Theres a couple ideas for it:
- Since the early Church likely met in Jewish synagogues, they would need to meet on a different day.
- Early Christians wanted to differentiat from the Jewish culture it was rooted in so they no longer observe the Jewish sabbath, but worship instead on Sunday, a distinctively Christian holy day.
-Others argue it doesn’t matter b/c main point of God’s command to observe the sabbath was not the seventh day, but the idea of any one day out of the seven.
‘One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God.’
— Romans 14: 5-6
"Lord's Day"
As someone from a very conservative Christian background (my granddad is in his 46th year as a pastor), we always acknowledged that the Sabbath was Saturday but we worship on Sunday (“the Lord’s Day”, as we call it) because that was the day of Jesus’ resurrection.
Now....
THATS what I’m talking about!!! I believe! GO CATS! I mean can you even IMAGINE what it would mean to lose to VMI and then turn around and beat UNC! I know, I know – its maybe not the most realistic goal, but I just cant help myself – I really believe that its possible! I really really do.
by kentuckygirl0724 on Nov 17, 2008 4:08 PM EST up reply actions
It is never too early to look to March
The VMI loss is one that will stick with the team all season. Regardless of how the team performs subsequently, analysts will continually mention that the “Wildcats lost to VMI back in November.” During Selection Sunday, UK’s team profile will include big wins and bad losses. Invariably the bad loss category will include VMI and the Cats can do nothing to change the fact that the baggage will be with them now.
However, UK desperately needs to right the ship. A win over the preaseason #1 will put a notch in the “big wins” category. Kentucky played such a bizarre game (fast paced, transition, little defense) compared to what was expected (feed the post, long possessions, tight defense) last Friday that I still have minimal hope, based on preseason hype, that UK can pull the upset.
Provided of course, they play the appropriate pace and defense and find a lead guard and don’t get in foul trouble and Hansborough definitely does not play and the freshmen come to play and the crowd is out of the game and…
Two months (!). Two weeks. Two pencils.
by Thomas Hunt Morgan on Nov 17, 2008 4:31 PM EST reply actions
Just call me a party pooper...
Or whatever, I just find it difficult to get my expectations up to par. I would indeed relish an upset but after the weekend I am pooped emotionally.
Go Cats! Please play to your potential.
Party Pooper! : )
Just kidding, of course, kykat. ; )
Color me one who is actually extremely excited for tomorrow’s game. Honestly, I don’t think I would have been any more or less excited had we actually won our season opener like we supposed to. Even ole Dickie V can’t put a damper on my party-game spirits (I also have been known to "mute" the television on occasion when he is calling a game) and I will most certainly be watching and listening to every minute of tomorrow’s game – Dickie V and all. Btw, the poll being talked about above sounds like a fantastic idea!
I am actually having a party at my house and believe me when I tell you that most of my partygoers will not be wearing Kentucky blue! They are of course my friends and since they are coming over to my house and eating my food and drinking my ever-so-fabulous cocktails they will of course be respectful…..to a point. So, basically, what I’m trying to say is that if I can be excited for tomorrow knowing that I will have houseful of people at my house who would love nothing more than to see my beloved Wildcats lose, uh, again and a houseful of non-Wildcat fans who will be waiting for me to eat all my smack talk (it probably doesn’t help matters that I also have been known to be quite the smack-talker when I am in a mood)…..then by golly so can you! : )
Here’s a trick (it worked for me after this past weekend and can work for you too) — go out and buy yourself a new outfit (something blue and preferably UK)….NEVER underestimate the power of retail therapy. Go ‘Cats!
EXCITED
I am SOOO excited that I am finding it really hard to focus on work at all today! I can NOT wait for tonight’s game. I feel that it is the perfect opportunity for Kentucky to stand up and give the “finger” to all the haters! GO CATS!!!!!!!!!!
by kentuckygirl0724 on Nov 18, 2008 10:07 AM EST up reply actions
A MUST WATCH NOW,
is on ESPN Classic. The 1990 game vs UNC.
gobigbluecatsfan72
by gobigbluecatsfan72 on Nov 17, 2008 5:04 PM EST reply actions
One of my favorite games of all time, even though it was a loss.
I gained a lot of respect for Dean Smith after that game.
He said that his team didn’t deserve to win the game, that they were outplayed by UK.
Dickie V actually made
a smart comment, in regards to the “big donors” sitting courtside, and the college students up in the rafters. He said, “Hey now, let’s reward these students, they’re the ones that write the big checks, and are the best supporters.” He was referring to the Dean Smith Center in Chapel Hill, but we could say the same thing about Rupp. Too many “old fogeys” yawning, knitting, and wishing they were in bed, because it’s past 8pm. Let’s get the “fans” back down courtside and raise some hell.
gobigbluecatsfan72
by gobigbluecatsfan72 on Nov 17, 2008 5:07 PM EST reply actions
For what its worth...
losing a battle isn’t losing the war. If you never lose a battle it means that you haven’t recognized your weaknesses…. or maybe your opponents haven’t recognized your weaknesses. I’m not so sure that the VMI loss didn’t gain more as a loss than it would as a win.
GO BIG BLUE!! Long Live Coach G (so long as he wears KY blue)!!!
ROFL @ POLL
I love the poll!
I voted Duke. Specifically, how Dick can’t wait for the Duke vs UNC game, and how that’s the greatest rivalry in college basketball, yada yada yada.
Expect UNC to press and run a wide open transition game. We will see
if we are mentally prepared this time.
The line on the game......
is UK +13.5 as of 10:00p.m. vegasinsider . com
i’m not sure what i think of that just yet.
that's about what I see...
UK—87
UNC—98
Let’s hope I’m wrong and UK rolls to a victory!!!
Steelers fan 1st! UK is my 2nd love.
Hansbrough is
ruled out for the UNC/UK game. sorry if this was mentioned earlier i didn’t have time to read through all 70 posts here.
Linkage:http://kentucky.rivals.com/barrier_noentry.asp?ReturnTo=&sid=&script=content.asp&cid=878024&fid=&tid=&mid=&rid=
Not much confidence...
coming from the bettors as the line has now moved from -13.5 to as much as -18.5….OUCH!
Cats Cover Any Double Digit Pointspread
But UNC will probably W the game.
by FortyYearCatFan on Nov 18, 2008 3:28 PM EST reply actions
So what was the final tally on the commentary?
Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."
I was ...
… wondering the same thing. I hope our scorekeepers didn’t get too sauced to count. :-)
A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan
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