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Does Kentucky now officially have a quarterback controversy?

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UPDATE via Matt May at The Cats Pause:  Rich Brooks says that Cobb is now #1 on the depth chart for receiver, and though he may get a package or two, Hartline is going to be the quarterback.  He says Cobb is just not comfortable trying to handle all the things the QB must do right now.

After taking the weekend to think about the debacle against South Carolina and reading many comments here and elsewhere, I think Kentucky has come to a bit of a crossroads in the season.

First of all, I don't believe that Mike Hartline's poor performance was the reason we lost on Saturday, it was one of many:

  1. Poor offensive line play in the running game and special teams;
  2. Special teams breakdowns that UK hasn't suffered all season, including two very short punts by Tim Masthay and giving up an 80 yard kickoff return.  By the way, haven't we now had two field goal attempts blocked resulting in touchdowns for the other team?  Don't you think maybe we should address that?
  3. Downright inexplicable play calling from the bench, including:
    -  Many routes on third down that were far short of the yardage needed for a first down;
    -  A bizarre on-side kick call to open the second quarter which, by the way, failed miserably.  Will we ever execute a respectable on-side attempt?  If not, we should just save it for desperation time.
    - Running Cobb at QB for like 2 successful plays, then never again;
  4. Sharp play calling from the South Carolina bench;
  5. Good job by the Visor in finding something that worked (i.e. picking on our less experienced corners with taller receivers) and forcing us to stop it, which we never did.  After Lindley burned him, I don't think the Gamecocks ever threw another ball in his direction.
  6. Tough defense by USC;
  7. Too little pressure on the quarterback;
  8. Dropped footballs that were catchable;
  9. Poor decisions by running backs -- how many times did Locke run into a pile when he could have cut back and gain yards?  I lost count at about six.  Lock is too right-side oriented.
  10. Unacceptable failure to be ready for a snap that surrendered the winning touchdown.

I could go on, but I think that's enough.  To my mind, though, the 'Cats biggest problem is that they almost never look like a threat to score when they have the football.  The offense is beginning to look a lot like Auburn's -- calcified and about as threatening as a teddy bear with a Freddy Krueger mask on.  Unfortunately, our season is going to look a lot like Auburn's has so far if we don't find some way to move the football and give our defense a break.

If USC hadn't made so many mistakes and our defense hadn't done such a good job of taking the ball away from the Gameocks in the first half, this game would likely have been a very ugly beat-down.  We managed to avoid that, but our offense has been exposed, and a significant part of the blame for that has to go to Hartline.  Hartline threw very many bad footballs Saturday -- in fact, I am hard pressed to remember a single pass over 10 yards that was thrown right on target.  Most of the receptions were balls caught behind, or too high, or just not in any position to make yards after the play.  Hartline should have had about six picks instead of only two, as he was repeatedly bouncing footballs off the leaping hands of receivers.  No play in football is more likely to result in an INT than a high pass thrown over the middle, and Hartline threw at least five of them.

But that wasn't the only area that Hartline struggled in.  Mike continually tried to force balls down the field when the defense was giving him underneath routes and dumps.  I saw several times when Locke was in the flat and 5 yards from anybody, while Hartline was heaving another wounded duck to a covered receiver -- why?  Where was that much-vaunted decision-making ability?  Against a defense as good as the Gamecocks, you just have to take what it gives you, and Kentucky kept trying to force balls down the field.  Now, if you had a Woodson, who has a cannon attached to his right side, you might try that.  But Hartline's arm is just barely good enough to be an SEC quarterback, and when he repeatedly throws wobbly, sailing passes, he is an offensive coordinator's nightmare.

But at least as troublesome was the poor hands shown by Kentucky's receivers.  So many drops were made of catchable balls that it just boggles the mind.  Yes, about 70% of them were bad throws, but when a ball hits the receiver in the hands and he doesn't catch it, that one's on the receiver 90% of the time.  It is a problem that Kentucky has struggled with all year.  And please don't remind me that they are young -- I know that, but this is the SEC, not Romper Room.

So what's to be done?  Well, if we don't find a way to force teams out of the box and create mismatches, we are not going to be successful.  Most of the time, a stout defense cannot produce a winning season in the SEC with an offense that can't convert more than 1 third down per game.  I have said that Randall Cobb is not the answer, but neither is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result -- that is the definition of insanity.

So I think we must split the snaps between Hartline and Cobb almost evenly, and try to run a two-quarterback system like Florida did a couple of years back.  Neither of our QB's is ready to be an SEC quarterback yet, but perhaps in combination we can come up with one.  Cobb forces defenses to play honest and not sit on routes.  Linebackers have to key on him, and that forces them to lose vision of receivers and backs running underneath and mid-routes, and it likely to result in one of our dangerous athletes getting isolated in space -- a fearful situation for any defense.  It also forces the safeties to play honest, and not cheat the pass, which could result in some vertical opportunities one-on-one.  Cobb isn't as experienced as Hartline, though, so going to him exclusively would probably not work.

Finally, if the receivers aren't going to catch the football, we need to find someone who can, pure and simple.  Move Locke into the slot where Lyons usually plays and get him the football -- at least he has proven he can catch it.  This dropping of footballs has got to stop, and I don't care if Rich Brooks makes the receivers dress up in drag and carry the football around campus in one of those papoose-style baby carriers, something has to be done.  To paraphrase Jack Nicholson, "This offense needs an enema."

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Missed the game

But read the recaps. It seems like we will always be doomed to be one side of the ball away from being a great team. Great offense last year… great defense this year. My lord, could you imagine this team with last year’s offense against this schedule??? We would have killed Alabama. Tennessee would be a 20 point underdog when we played.

The fact of the matter is though… we have this offense. And with the loss this weekend combined with a tougher Vandy and a Miss St team that beat UT on Saturday… we may need to orchestrate a miracle or two to get back to a bowl game. I’ve been a Hartline supporter, but I do think we need to get creative or resign ourselves to a long season.

Ahhhh… such is life in the brutal SEC.

Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."

by chirop1 on Oct 13, 2008 9:45 AM EDT   0 recs

Hartline

Watching the game Saturday, just made me sick to my stomach, much the same as losing to USC last year. The mistakes and inability to make plays especially on 3rd downs(offense and defense) just killed us. I’m still optimistic though. I think this team can step up and have a good game and knock off some good teams. I was impressed with the post game quotes on ukathletics.com from Hartline. He took responsibility, but at the same time called for the young receivers to step up. They need to quit dropping passes while Hartline needs to make it easier for them to make those plays. We are 4-2. There is still a lot of football to be played.

by cthom on Oct 13, 2008 10:50 AM EDT   0 recs

Another Reason

Losing Lyons really hurt. He was the one play maker on offense and when he went down I think it changed things we could do and what they had to stop. When you are struggling and you have one guy who can make a play and he goes down it can get in your head. Not sure it would have changed the outcome but I expect our offense at least would have looked better.
SC and Spurrier have our number. We played probably our worst mistake filled game against these guys last year. Maybe this will be as bad as it gets this year.
If Phillips is good enough to be our next head coach you have to assume he is sharp enough to find something productive that this offense can run.

by Slim Wagers on Oct 13, 2008 11:16 AM EDT   0 recs

Blow out wins and Blow out losses

tend to be, in my mind, 75% about players ability 15% prep and teaching/coaching and 10% in-game coaching.

Nip and tuck is where coaches really earn their living and the few guys on the squad with “it” factor step in and step up. EVERYBODY has bad days. Bar none! But this was just hard to watch.

This game really was out of norm on all sides. I think the visor even said something to the affect “…that apparently UK stunk just a tad worse than they stunk…”

I know one thought is that with Lyons out, we need Cobb in his spot. I still disagree. I think it makes us need him at QB more. Stunts, tricks and fakes are not “power SEC program plays” but as we sit, we will not win this year.

Hell, set them both side-by-side in the shotgun and make the D guess who will take the snap. Send Hartline out for a screen. Crap, pull out the “Wild Mummy Bloopers and Practical Jokes Playbook” video and give it a look.

I am not hanging too much on one game. I am looking at all 6 and this is not getting better.

I do feel like Brown is in the D’s head and we will still be competitive next year, our youth on the O side can only make them better next year and with our two QBs coming in the spring competition will be insane. Our receivers need to get better. Damn the ban on Stick-um. (Showed my age there :-)

Changing how you think will change what you think.

by wilson452 on Oct 13, 2008 12:03 PM EDT   0 recs

Offensive help

We must find something radical to alter the offensive lack of production. I don’t think that employing the Wildcat Formation is a long-term solution, but when used occasionally and in the proper situation would provide some much needed life blood to a truly anemic offense.

One could now argue that Mike Hartline has regressed to the point where he is now costing Kentucky games (see Alabama fumble). I don’t fully endorse that view because the offenses foes are truly multifactorial: part coaching, part line, part skill players. That said, a Hartline led offense has grossly failed to show it can be anything but successful.

Someone (half-jokingly) said that UK should never play offense, just put the defense on the field the entire game. Now there is an idea.

Two months (!). Two weeks. Two pencils.

by Thomas Hunt Morgan on Oct 13, 2008 5:24 PM EDT   0 recs

Answer: Yes

Does Kentucky now officially have a quarterback controversy?

If that question is answered by opinion of fans the answer is a resounding: Yes. In a poll on another site 83.8% think Cobb should be starting QB.

If it answered by the players the answer is an equally resounding: Yes.
Post game comments by Myron Pryor show that D is becoming frustrated with O. Reported comments from sideline says that WR’s are upset with Hartline.

by Wild Weasel on Oct 13, 2008 5:51 PM EDT   0 recs

Most popular guy on any team

Is always the backup QB.

Of course its difficult, its a shortcut... if it was easy it'd just be "the way."

by chirop1 on Oct 14, 2008 9:37 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Heh ...

… a truism, for sure.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Oct 14, 2008 11:41 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

running game...

nothing can be put on the running game. hartline is a quarterback that which receiver the play is dsigned for, that is the guy who gets it, no matter the down. We had many short yard, “line of scrimmage” passes that allowed south carolina to basically put 10 guys on or near the line of scrimmage and one guy deep. So with 10 defenders prowling the line, how can you expect the running game to get rolling? He overthrows receivers almost on every set of downs. its embarressed and I know he’s trying everything he can, but good lord. Split with Cobb or bench the boy, that is the only way to remedy this. when we play some of the teams these upcoming weeks…i shudder to think

by BleedinUKBlue on Oct 13, 2008 7:48 PM EDT   0 recs

Cobb not the answer

Have you guys forgotten the turnovers and bad passes Cobb had when he played QB earlier this year? He makes a much better receiver than he does QB. Look, I am disgusted as the rest of you by the last two games, but let us talk about the players that have truly let us down. It is not the quarterback nor the receivers, we expected them to perform at a low level this year, hell, Hartline was not even supposed to be the starter this year. Our true problem this year is with the offensive line. This group was supposed to be experienced veterans that could buy our quarterback time and open gaping holes for our stable of running backs. Unfortunately, they have not done their job. Frankly, you could blame the South Carolina loss on them. If they hold the line and our field goal is made, that is a ten point swing in the game. Heck, if they were knocking the opposition off of the line, our backs might be gaining positive yards.

The offensive line is where our problem is truly at. You can win in the SEC with a mediocre quarterback, or with weak recievers – Auburn and Arkansas have done so for years. You can’t win in the SEC with a weak or mediocre offensive line. That is our true weakness this year.

by wklawdog on Oct 13, 2008 10:03 PM EDT   0 recs

I think ...

… there is definitely blame to be assessed, and the offensive line is one place it belongs.

Winning the SEC with a weak offensive line is impossible. Competing in the SEC with an average offensive line is not, and in my opinion, that is what we have. Unfortunately, we cannot compete with both an average offensive line and a quarterback who cannot throw the ball ten yards with accuracy. Now, I’m not saying Cobb can, necessarily, but even if he throws it as bad as Hartline did on Saturday, he can do things that Hartline cannot with the football.

I am not advocating replacing Hartline with Cobb. I am saying that the two need to share the snaps. Brooks clearly does not agree, and as I said before, he has forgotten more about football in the last five minutes than I have ever known.

But as a fan, I have to call them as I see them. Yes, I trust Brooks & Co. to do the right thing, but I think that it isn’t at all clear, right now, that Hartline can get the job done. He is certainly not an SEC caliber quarterback right now. Maybe this was just a bad game, and it was certainly much worse than last game. But Hartline has struggled to throw the ball on target all year, and his receivers are just not mature enough to catch balls that are badly thrown. That’s why I think we need Cobb in there at QB some to create some honesty in the defense. I don’t expect to get my wish, at least not as much as I want, but I am convinced that is what is needed along with better blocking and harder running.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Oct 13, 2008 11:12 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

o-line

We had to starters out, and I’m pretty sure they will remain out for the arkansas game. When fully healthy our O-line is not all that bad. Beets and hines should be back and ready to go,a nd i dunno about Jefries. Injuies have torn us apart, and if anyone wants to point fingers, its that and nothing can control it. is it just me or does injury-itis strike us more than anyone else?

by BleedinUKBlue on Oct 14, 2008 10:17 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

That's a good point ...

… I somehow managed to forget about Jeffries’ injury. Our O-line has not been all together all year, and that has clearly had an effect.

At this point, I guess the best thing to do is trust that the coaches see more than we do, and trust their judgment. It’s difficult not to pick nits, and frankly, it’s impossible for me not to. But I do believe in this staff, and our players.

A Sea of Blue -- Kentucky Sports for the Discerning Fan

by Truzenzuzex on Oct 14, 2008 11:16 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

not convinced

That Brooks is the great coach the bluegrass has suddenly hyped him to be. We’ve lost scores of close games during his tenure, many in the past two years, where he was out coached. How do you allow the play clock to expire at Tennessee? Why do you allow the offensive coordinator to continually call for screens when we don’t have the receiving talent to break plays? Why are your teams lacking in focus during many games, i.e. South Carolina, Miss. State last year, heck almost Florida State last year. In my opinion, we’ve been in the tank since we beat LSU last year. After that game, we returned to being normal. Take away the cupcake wins and I bet we have a losing record since then. I think Brooks is a good recruiter because he hires coaches, like Phillips, who know how to recruit. He has a good staff around him but I don’t think he’s much above an average coach.
As for on the field, I said after watching the Louisville game that we won’t win three games in the SEC unless something happens at QB. I know Hartline is young, but this is his third year in the system and this season is halfway done. He looks like he’s never played QB in his life. He looks scared and has little to no touch on any of his passes. If we lose or even play Arkansas close, Brooks has got to let Fiddler or Cobb get some snaps if for nothing else, to prove to the fan base that Hartline is the best we have. I think Hartline can be a tremendous player, but potential only goes so far. We need to see some progress and we need to see it now. The SEC isn’t going to get easier, the kid from Indiana may be our starter next year.

by daniel81 on Oct 15, 2008 2:44 PM EDT   0 recs

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