After a night's sleep, does anyone feel better?
by Truzenzuzex on Nov 8, 2007 9:04 AM EST
in Basketball
81 comments
There is simply no muse like a traumatic, unexpected event.
Just a few days ago, I was struggling to come up with things to talk about -- football was still in the interregnum of a bye week, the basketball team was beating up on cupcakes -- there just wasn't a lot to write about. All that changed last night with the defeat of Kentucky at the hands of ... Gardner-Webb. Say that again -- Kentucky lost to Gardner-Webb ... by 16 in Rupp Arena! Sounds like something you might read on The Onion, but folks, this one is just as real this morning as it was last night when I went to bed.
I will be using this post to highlight news links, and updating the news box below a bit later. It takes time to do, and right now, I am more interested in making a few points for discussion.
Number one: I see an awful lot of people blaming this loss on Tubby Smith. Folks, that is just silly. Even if we were to accept the argument that Smith left the cupboard bare, blaming this loss on lack of talent is utterly non-sequitur. We have two seniors who were highly ranked, one of them a high school all-American, several highly ranked sophomores, two freshmen high school all-Americans, and a hot new coach who has resurrected programs far worse off than us. I wonder if Gardner-Webb had a 3-star among them? That fact alone aught to be enough to win against a team like Gardener-Webb. May I respectfully suggest that if you feel the urge to continue to blame Tubby Smith for everything bad that happens to the Wildcats, you are doing the Big Blue Nation, but more importantly your own credibility, a disservice.
Number two: Those fans who "booed", I hope you were booing the referees and the other team. I chose to believe that for now. If you weren't, you need to grow up. These things happen during transitions. Get over it, or prepare for nasty reprovals. I will show you no mercy.
Number three: For those of you griping about pre-season tournaments, Kentucky isn't going to stop playing in them. Gardner-Webb had just as much (or just as little) practice time as we did. If you want to blame it on something, blame it on the exhibition games. I have never quite figured out why we play those.
Number four: No matter how dark this seems, just remember that there are worse things. For example, we don't have to explain this for the rest of our lives. That's something to be thankful for.
Number five: Is this one of the worst defeats Kentucky has suffered at Rupp Arena? Yes, it is, but it isn't the only bad loss we have had here. Sooner or later, every team is going to go through this, even the mighty UK. It sucks, but it is a fact of life.
I would like to bring some blogger reax from the BBN, but I have seen some things that would cause me to make comments I might regret, so I think I'll just let people vent in their little corner of cyberspace for now. After things have calmed down a bit, we'll bring some of those on board. So instead, let's go to some other bloggers and media types who have less invested in the team:
John Clay gets the tone just about right, and Billy Gillispie himself tells us who is at fault:
Kyle at Putting Up Bricks (some sweet synchronicity in that name, don't you think?) wonders if Billy G. might be missing College Station right about now:
Rush the Court wonders if firebillygillispie.com is up yet:
To the mainstream media, of course we have DeCourcy, who doesn't pull any punches, but ends on a note of optimism (of sorts):
Finally, Mike at Card Chronicle sums up the game beautifully:
So there we are, my brothers and sisters in blue -- the bad and the ugly. There is no good, unless you count two uninterrupted weeks of practice -- something, I think it's safe to say, this team needs quite a bit of.
Update [2007-11-8 12:30:37 by Truzenzuzex]: Aaaannd now ... We get the Pat Forde treatment:
At least Carr lost close, 34-32, with a game-winning field goal attempt blocked on the final play. Gillispie's Kentucky team was never in the game. They trailed 14-0 out of the gates and only briefly got the deficit into single digits.
Gotta give The Loathsome Troll Jeff Goodman credit, though -- UK didn't show up in his top 25 (although I think that was for a reason other than merit, but who knows?)
Update [2007-11-8 17:11:27 by Truzenzuzex]: Heh. Great -- we made the WaPo.
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I posted this in the other thread,
Call me crazy on this, but I have a theory, or maybe it is just wishful thinking, on why Coach G didn't change the gameplan midway through.
I have watched Gillispie coach, and frankly the guy is fantastic at it. He knows just how to tweak his offense and defense to give himself the ever so slight advantage, when on some occasions, his team never should have had one.
My theory is this. This game is VERY early on in the season. I honestly believe that Gillispie changed nothing to see how his players would react. Look at the lineup patterns at the end of the game. Gillispie was trying to find a group of players that would hustle and scrap back. He was putting it on their shoulders, that way he would know who were the tough ones, the ones that he could put in late in the game to either stave off a comeback or to begin one.
Let's face the obvious. Despite all our faults, we are a far more talented team than Gardner-Webb, and we are a much more deep team.
But in the long run of things, this game does not truly mean much. Yes, a loss is still tough to swallow, but it's only the second game of the season. If the fans truly think that this is how this team will play for the rest of the season, then you may as well just turn the tv off for the rest of the year. We will take our lumps, but then again we will probably win games we had no right to be in in the first place.
The two weeks off for practice is exactly what the doctor ordered.
by piketaylor on Nov 8, 2007 9:07 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I think ...
To me, it looked like Ramel Bradley and Joe Crawford simply rebelled. They decided Gillispie's game plan wasn't going to work, so they instituted their own.
The results were predictable. The team and the coach were not only not on the same page, they were not even reading from the same book.
by Truzenzuzex on Nov 8, 2007 9:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
by MartinGolf9 on Nov 8, 2007 10:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This is just silly
But when its BCG on the sideline it's all part of some master plan.
Yeeeeeah, riiiiiight.
by JLeverenz on Nov 8, 2007 11:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Dude...
Second game of a new coach with two guys that Tubby couldn't get solid productivity out of for three years and a bunch of sofs and freshies, yes BG gets ALL the space, cover and get-out-of-jail-free cards he wants.
by wilson452 on Nov 8, 2007 12:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed....
by MartinGolf9 on Nov 8, 2007 1:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Except
It's more or less the reaction that every big time program gets when it loses to a team it has no business losing to.
Look, this isn't Pitino picking up the pieces after probation. This is a team that a lot of us were (and still are) excited about. It has some talent and some solid role players. Everybody knew there were going to be hiccups along the way, but I defy you to find me 3 people who honestly believed G-W would be one of those hiccups.
It seems to me that every person who says that Smith needed to go because he wasn't meeting "UK Standards" ought to be equally irked that UK lost, at home, to a team it had no serious business losing to, new coach or not.
by JLeverenz on Nov 8, 2007 1:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder
by TheFakeGimelMartinez on Nov 8, 2007 1:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Some of them ...
by Truzenzuzex on Nov 8, 2007 1:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That is certainly not what I am saying
I do give the new coach a little more latitude today than I would have given Tubby today.
- Very few of us have had time to find and watch a bunch of BCG games.
- We don't know his body language like we did Tubby after 10 years.
- It is game 2. We don't know his style.
- Our "on-court leaders" have stated on Television that they are having a hard time buying in and they certainly play like it.
- We have only facts to run with. BCG recruited like, 1 guy and came in as a relief pitcher and closed the game on Paterson and I actually think Tubby was in the lead for him when he left. The rest has talent and heart but they are still getting to know each other as they all heal from some injury or another.
Yes, I was for a coaching change but was not a "Hater" of Tubby. I notice that many of the handles of those with your point of view were the Pro-Tubby crowd as well. So, what does that say? Let's not make this like politics here. We don't need two camps who think the other side is a bunch of idiots just because.
It is what it is, a crap hole of a loss. Trust me, if this becomes a habit, all leash given to BCG today will be over. Until then, he gets time and any speculation on "grand plans" or the like is just entertainment. However, if he hit a point last night where he had a few know-it-alls playing their own game and said "Fine. Do what you want and you will pay later" that is his call. We don't have to like it and the players certainly will not like it but again, that is another bit of conjecture.
I HATE loosing to GW. I am mad. However, in two games, he ABSOLUTELY gets more room today than Tubby would have gotten today. To think otherwise is equally as blind as those making "excuses" for BCG and hell, I admit, I am to a point. In these times of unthinkable reality, the human runs for answers form anyplace we can find it. The mind, the stats, tarot cards, Chris Angel, Karl Rove....
11/7Truth.org anyone?
I heard if you fold a UK diploma in a certain way it shows C.M. Newton floating in the clouds and pointing to what looks like the scoreboard from last night. SPOOKY.
by wilson452 on Nov 8, 2007 5:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No doubt we shouldn't have lost to GW....
by MartinGolf9 on Nov 8, 2007 1:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with you on Gillispie
I didn't get to watch the Central Arkansas game, I only read ASoB and the AP account afterwards. If I had watched it, then as you say, I might have been more worried about G-W.
I guess what bothers me most is not so much the loss, but an apparent double standard in the treatment of the coach after the loss: when Smith would lose a game, the grumblers would come out and play. When Gillispie loses a game, I see comments about how it's part of some greater plan.
Looking back on my previous posts, I do think I went a bit overboard on the expectations in beating G-W. I still don't think it should have happened, new coach or no, but I also recognize the circumstances dictate that I give the team and the coach more slack early in the season.
And who knows? Maybe by the end of the season we'll learn that G-W just has a great team this year.
by JLeverenz on Nov 8, 2007 4:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Can't say I honestly believed, but
by senowen on Nov 8, 2007 3:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Gillispie
G-W game out with a perfect game plan and executed it to perfection. That's okay. That happens because there are a lot of smart guys out there coaching basketball. What's inexcusable (to me anyway) is that Gillispie was either unable or unwilling to make adjustments to counter that game plan. BCG is still a rather young coach, but he has enough experience that he should have been able to come up with some adjustment at half-time. Instead, the second half looked a lot like the first.
by JLeverenz on Nov 8, 2007 9:19 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Which leads us ...
- Knew it wasn't going to work and wanted to see how the team reacted to adversity; or
- Knew it could work, but the execution was so poor it didn't, and wanted to demonstrate that.
I tend to gravitate to the first. I believe coaches learn far more from adversity than they do success. I'm assuming that it wasn't sheer stupidity or incompetence, as those seem very unlikely given the Coach's track record.
by Truzenzuzex on Nov 8, 2007 9:26 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well...
In fact, I think that makes a certain amount of sense, simply because he has not yet gotten to know his players well enough to know who he can and can't rely on to do certain things yet. He hasn't seen them in game action enough to know who the best player is to ask to guard certain types of players or guard against certain types of plays.
But you find out those things by trying them, then learning through adversity if it doesn't work (as you said above) and learning something positive about a guy if it does. From what I saw last night, it didn't seem like he tried any adjustments and I don't see how you learn anything about your team that way.
by JLeverenz on Nov 8, 2007 4:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes ...
I just refuse to acknowledge that possibility right now. Not enough data points in that direction.
by Truzenzuzex on Nov 8, 2007 4:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Again
I'm just saying that it is a possibility that he has incomplete knowledge of what he can and cannot ask each of his players to do, which (if true) would be perfectly understandable given the circumstances.
That said, I don't understand why there was no (apparent) attempt to make adjustments at halftime to learn those things. I just can't accept "Well, I wanted to see how they would handle losing." as a valid reason for not making halftime adjustments.
by JLeverenz on Nov 8, 2007 4:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And to belabor mine ...
I think he may have been trying to see how they would respond to adversity (i.e. being behind) and his coaching, but I don't think he ever intended to lose the game, and I have never and will never suggest that.
Gillispie truly believes that pressure defense is the way to stop back cuts. He may be right, but clearly, the Cats weren't executing it in the way it had to be executed to prevent back cuts and open threes, and he just wasn't willing to compromise for whatever reason until the game was truly in imminent danger of slipping away -- at which point, he clearly did. Turned out to be too little too late, but that happens.
by Truzenzuzex on Nov 8, 2007 5:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This
I would never believe that Gillispie would let this team lose to teach them a lesson. Instead, he was putting in players to see how they handled the situation, and which, if any, would rise to the occasion.
Gillispie, but more importantly perhaps the players, understand that this was a very bad loss.
I certainly wouldn't want to be Liberty in two weeks.
by piketaylor on Nov 8, 2007 6:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Lame.
The real culprit to me is dead legs, and that's all on Coach. How did so many backdoor cuts work? No spring. How did so many layups fall off the front of the rim? Dead legs.
I am not implying that Gillispie did anything wrong, or should have run his kids less. That's his call. But it's my call to say that when you're playing back-to-back nights, perhaps having a late evening film session and then a full practice on gameday of the second day isn't the best way to get prepared for the game, even if it is Gardner-Webb.
That said, I do agree that this team will see better days. But despite our wishful thinking, we may have to resign ourselves to the idea that we're going to be playing the underdog card all year. If we beat a UNC, Louisville or some such, it'll be a surprise, not a matchup of even teams.
One thing is abundantly clear, and that is that Ramel Bradley is the worst "good" player at UK in a decade. His decision-making skills are nearly non-existent, and his strengths manage to turn into weaknesses for his team. This despite a clear amount of talent.
The kid just kills his own team.
No one seems to want to talk about Jodie Meeks' miserable night, new hero Mark Coury's single-handed destruction of the first 5 minutes or the fact that Perry Stevenson can't catch the f*cking ball.
But hey, at least Billy can't bitch and moan about having to play more games. He's now got an extra week to run his kids ragged.
The Online home of Big Blue Nation ...
by JL Blue on Nov 8, 2007 9:21 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
"willing to lose"
Probably not willing, but possibly determined to prove various things at almost any cost. By the time he made adjustments, which he did in the second half, it was far too late.
There is no other rational explanation for staying in pressure when it was obviously taken away from us. That's basketball 101. There is a counter for every defensive scheme in basketball, which is why coaches have counters for the counter, and so on.
The team looked very tired, and I am quite certain that was a big part of it. But even a tired Kentucky aught to be able to overcome Gardner-Webb. But apparently not.
Meeks has had two miserable nights in a row, and yes, Coury had a lousy game. But those guys are sophomores, one of them a walk-on. Stephenson also played badly, in my opinion.
But this one goes on the seniors and the coach.
by Truzenzuzex on Nov 8, 2007 9:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Players
We know Meeks is better than this and will play better games.
Coury is a walk on, and last night showed why. I think the problem is more with the expectations of what he can do and less with what he actually does (if that makes sense).
I agree Perry needs to learn to catch the ball, but we knew that already. How is this game any different from the first 3 other than the outcome?
by JLeverenz on Nov 8, 2007 12:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Um... wow?
Not to say he's wrong, because he isn't.
by Clandestine on Nov 8, 2007 2:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm... Something seems off
How they played as a team....
How they did all the little things...
How our team wasn't doing that yet...
He made a point of saying that this team was playing the way we should be playing.
Couple that with the observations I had read thus far...including Tru's comment about the (possibly)seniors rebelling (possibly).
Having watched Coach G's A&M Teams a little, I can say what happened last night isn't typical. He is generally a very active coach.
Do you think perhaps that he was letting the team see what happens when they try to play/win on talent alone? Thats always been an issue with Ramel and Joe. Perhaps this was a way to show them (embarass them even) that talent doesn't win games... playing as a team does.
Now coach has 2 weeks to work them. And 2 hours of game tape that will probably be on a loop in the locker room the rest of the season.
So, I am stunned at the loss, but for some reason I am not upset. I think this might be just the kick in the butt that is needed to push this team to overacheive.
by sylvar on Nov 8, 2007 10:26 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Agree...
Do I think he saw it coming and then used it to make a point to a few guys who have said on local TV with Alan Cutler that he "crawford" is "having a hard time buying in" and that "other" are as well.
Nothing jerks a not in their tails like an embarassing loss and the "Told you so" coach for two weeks until you get to go out and actually DO WHAT HE SAYS or move aside!
Did Tubby leave us totally broken and bare? NO
Do I think he saw a crappy year ahead as he weighed the sub-par year he just had and took a nice offer? HELL YES HE DID.
BG will get Ramel and Crawford on board or we will loose 12-13 games. If we sart loosing I hope they are sitting on the bench while other get the experience of game time.
by wilson452 on Nov 8, 2007 12:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I was ...
Win or lose, it wasn't going to be pretty. Its almost like when you tell your kids over and over again the best way to do something....then you turn them loose to do it and they don't listen. Sometimes all you can do is shake your head and watch them fail...if they wouldn't listen before, trying to get them to listen while they are under fire just makes them more stubborn. :) At least thats how I was growing up.
I never mentioned Tubby. I agree that he didn't leave us totally bare....but we aren't stocked either. Actually, My biggest complaint about Tubby were early season losses just like this one...Team never seemed ready to play early on. I am not giving BG a pass on this one, but it isn't a trend.....yet.
I concur that Joe and Ramel need to get it together or sit.
by sylvar on Nov 8, 2007 12:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Billy G
Billy G strikes me as a man with a plan and one who is building his team for the postseason. He seems unwilling to alter his plan in order to avoid one loss so as to better prepare his team for later in the season. Thats not a bad thing.
Ask the Pistons about it. They are introducing several young players this season and will probably have to sacrifice some regular season wins (which their vets could pull out) in order to get the young kids some court time so come playoff time they are an asset and not a liability. I hate this loss as much as everyone else but I think G is looking at the big picture and we may have to sacrifice some non conference wins in order to be better towards the end of the season.
by davw83 on Nov 8, 2007 10:38 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
more..
"You can't just show up on the court and think you're going to beat somebody because you wear a certain jersey," said Gillispie
Seems to reinforce what I was thinking.
by sylvar on Nov 8, 2007 10:40 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Well, I don't feel better at all
- I'm out 80 bucks on tickets to MSG and now have to resort to selling them on Craigslist.
- I have yet to see UK play this season and it seems I'm going to have to wait even longer now. That sucks. Yeah I could watch some internet copy of the games now, but I hate watching games when I already know the outcome.
by senowen on Nov 8, 2007 11:02 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Stub Hub
The Online home of Big Blue Nation ...
by JL Blue on Nov 8, 2007 11:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Bummer.
by Truzenzuzex on Nov 8, 2007 12:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Crazy night
Why is he not starting Crawford, after 20 points the night before?
There was some booing last night because of lousy play. Having a 1000 or so people booing you can not help a 20 year old confidence, the crowd on the whole was supportive. It was the most I have stood this season.
I have never heard of Garner Webb, and it is embarrassing that we did not win our home court tournament, and that Garner Webb gets to go to NYC.
Honeymoons over so soon. It will be a long season.
by wesco on Nov 8, 2007 11:07 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Chicken Little.....
- Bradley - 40
- Patterson - 32
- Meeks - 30
- Crawford - 25
- Coury - 22
Gillispie is looking for a group that will play as a team. Having a team high in points doesn't mean you were the most productive player on the court, but it could mean you are the most selfish. Gillispie said early during the exibition games, if you lead this team in rebounds or assists you will start. He never said anything about scoring, if you do the other two scoring will come as a part of the process.
Gillispie gets as many free passes or get out of jail free cards as he wants until he has the time to get his players in there. That will be at least 2 to 3 years. I personally don't think it will take that long for BCG to add his stamp to the CATS and show us a much improved team from the last few years.
by MartinGolf9 on Nov 8, 2007 1:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Surprised but not schocked
The game film should be used over and over as a teaching tool. It is not to show what UK did or did not do but rather to watch a great lesson in sound fundamental basketball played as a team. Crisp passing, finding the open man, tenacious defense and blocking out. I found myself enjoying the game while cheering on an inferior UK team. I must admit I loved watching GW play. Congrats to them on the win and thanks for the lesson. Hopefully we use it.
I am convinced we will. It may take 2 or 3 years but I still like the hire. Go BCG!
Mo
by modcpa on Nov 8, 2007 2:12 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Boos
I'm not saying I would have booed were I at the game, but I don't feel sorry for players who couldn't guard a backdoor cut or get back to guard a fast break, something I learned playing in the YMCA league at age 10.
by GregJ on Nov 8, 2007 2:23 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
True Fan: Rule #1
by Clandestine on Nov 8, 2007 2:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Just Leave....
by MartinGolf9 on Nov 8, 2007 3:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hey Tru,
by sylvar on Nov 8, 2007 2:33 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Very vile
by Acdixon on Nov 8, 2007 2:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
BTW
by senowen on Nov 8, 2007 3:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Nicely done
by TheFakeGimelMartinez on Nov 8, 2007 3:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you
by senowen on Nov 8, 2007 3:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Believe me ...
It may seem vile to you, but compared to conversations I've had with him, it is positively fair.
by Truzenzuzex on Nov 8, 2007 4:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I admit to being confused...
????
Hard to tell whether he's for or against Gillispie, just evident that he's enjoying kicking UK while we're "down." Honestly, I think he mostly just enjoyed all his hilarious jokes about no one knowing who the hell Gardner-Webb is.
by Kilgore Trout on Nov 8, 2007 4:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
For Sale Sign....
by MartinGolf9 on Nov 8, 2007 4:00 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
This is a joke, right?
by strawmanmunny on Nov 8, 2007 4:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not a Joke....but no pix
by MartinGolf9 on Nov 8, 2007 4:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Just sad
After we reel off several wins, everyone will be saying that we are going to win the NCAA and Gillispie is a GOD. Some of our fans need a healthy dose of perspective.
by strawmanmunny on Nov 8, 2007 5:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That's Definately.....
by MartinGolf9 on Nov 9, 2007 8:30 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
As we say on the Internet...
by TheFakeGimelMartinez on Nov 8, 2007 4:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Fan derangement ...
by Truzenzuzex on Nov 8, 2007 4:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
firebilly.com
by MartinGolf9 on Nov 8, 2007 4:19 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Thanks
by TheFakeGimelMartinez on Nov 8, 2007 4:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
BCG
by CAWebb on Nov 8, 2007 5:34 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
This is so ... unsurprising.
We were embarrassed, and now the fans are feeling the embarrassment of an unexpected loss. It's just a bump in the road, and I am kind of enjoying watching the national sports media make a spectacle of themselves.
For our part, we must find a bit of serenity in all this. We have been through much tougher times than one loss can ever bring. Imagine how satisfying it will be when the shoe is on the other foot, as it will be. Probably sooner, rather than later.
by Truzenzuzex on Nov 8, 2007 6:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I like
by TheFakeGimelMartinez on Nov 8, 2007 7:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not surprising
I'm not surprised, nor offended; and I really hope you don't take what the ranting and raving media says for face value. When Louisville or Duke or any other team loses badly, they get mocked too. Kentucky will have a "off-their-game" tone on every report you see until Kentucky gets into the Final Four. Then we'll be beat over the head with "Kentucky is back!" stories. Sheesh, we never left!
by TheFakeGimelMartinez on Nov 8, 2007 6:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
BCG
by CAWebb on Nov 8, 2007 5:45 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
The Woodwork
I bet 95% of the people who jabbed me with jokes wasn't aware that college basketball season had begun.
When Kentucky does it, for good or bad, it matters, friends.
by catlanta91 on Nov 8, 2007 9:38 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
last night's game
by joeyandemily on Nov 8, 2007 10:02 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Most productive players?
Calculated (Pts+A)/Min
These are the top 7
Perry, Dwight......0.75 (only played 4 min)
Crawford, Joe......0.693181818
Legion, Alex.......0.690909091
Patterson, Patrick.0.582524272
Meeks, Jodie.......0.575221239
Bradley, Ramel.....0.563492063
Coury, Mark........0.353535354
by blueninja on Nov 8, 2007 10:38 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Revised
(Pts+Rebs+A)/Min
Patterson 0.942
Crawford 0.875
Legion 0.873
Bradley 0.841
D. Perry 0.750
Meeks 0.726
Coury 0.677
by blueninja on Nov 8, 2007 10:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ninja
by Ken Howlett on Nov 8, 2007 11:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
read my mind
by UKWildCatFanatic on Nov 9, 2007 1:16 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
think about pleasant things
http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=302004
by johnr on Nov 9, 2007 12:03 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
3rd World
Thank God sir, you just happened to be born in this country. Referring to underdeveloped countries as "toilets" reveals your lack of character, and human understanding. Have a nice trip south.
I seriously doubt Tru gives a rats ass what you think about him.
by Ken Howlett on Nov 9, 2007 12:10 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Why Read?
Your misery with yourself, and others is apparent in your prose. If you feel the need to pull the trigger, please don't let us stop you.
If not, I would be happy to exchange emails, and perhaps we could work this out in person.
Come on, I need a giggle.
by Ken Howlett on Nov 9, 2007 12:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
feel better?
by UKWildCatFanatic on Nov 9, 2007 1:18 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Fanatic
I was going to ignore him, but his comments were so outrageous I felt compelled to retort.
by Ken Howlett on Nov 9, 2007 1:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i know
i don't understand why someone, who over a period of months, doesn't like the site very much, would continue to read and take the time to comment. it's just like tv or radio...you don't like it, you turn it off.
by UKWildCatFanatic on Nov 9, 2007 1:30 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Fanatic
I really should not have responded to the guy. It only encourages people like him.
by Ken Howlett on Nov 9, 2007 1:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
WOW!
Surely you can do better than that.
You mentioned education in your earlier post. If you paid more than a months worth of meals at Waffle House for yours, if I were you, I would be researching the possibility of a refund.
by Ken Howlett on Nov 9, 2007 1:18 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Goodman is an idiot
As for losing to a division 2 team... This is going to happen a LOT more folks. Sports education and coaching is just getting better and better. These "cupcake" teams can put together a good team and beat you. It will happen more and more over the next few years.
by EEWildcat on Nov 9, 2007 1:36 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
What happened?
So I've got to come up with some answers. What happened?
First of all, this isn't a Smith bash. I was a Smith apologist and was sorry he left us. But now I know why he did.
The cupboard wasn't quite bare, but it was darn close.
We have 0 senior 3/4/5 players
We have 0 junior 1/2/3/4 players, and 1 center who played 20 minutes total last year.
So that is basically 0 experienced Big Men that we have. 0. I wonder how all those back door cuts were getting through?
And Bradley seemed to be only consistently effective last year at the 2 guard slot, so we really have no upperclassmen in the 1 slot either. None.
Yes, we have some good 2 guard possibilities between Meeks, Crawford and Bradley. But seriously, look at our forwards and center positions. In the 3/4/5 slots, we have Patterson, but other than him our next best guy is a Sophomore walk on who played 20 minutes total last year and didn't even start for his high school team. Now I love Coury and his effort. He gets 110% out of the body he was given. I wish I was that good. But you have to admit that is a short staffing by Kentucky standards.
Even a group of 3 of the most outstanding 2-guards in the world does not a team make, All-American or no.
I laughed at our top-25 rating and expected to lose a lot of games this year due to our inexperience, but this loss is just shocking.
It's ridiculous to put all the blame on Smith (and maybe as the X & O's court-coach genius that he was, and the players already knowing his system, he might have even pulled out a victory if he had stayed), but he does get a small share. It's not like Gillispie was left with a frontcourt of Jamal Magliore, Nazr Mohammed, Scott Padgett, Heshimu Evans, and Allen Edwards to work with.
Like anything, there are a lot of factors. I think probably the biggest one is the players aren't buying in to The Gillispie Way yet. You can read this fact on and between the lines of a lot of the players' interviews. Things just aren't meshing well yet among coaches, systems, and players.
I have a lot of "yet"s in here. I have faith that things will turn out well. It's just a transition period, and as much as we don't like to admit it as Kentucky fans, it's a rebuilding year. It's not that we can't have a great year. We've just got to face the reality of the roster and set our expectations accordingly.
Hopefully this loss didn't destroy our recruiting position too badly. Hopefully all those great 3/4/5 high-schoolers can see Kentucky as the tremendous opportunity it is, not the program that got blown out by a division 2 team at home.
Sometimes you have to hit rock bottom to turn things around. Maybe this horrific loss is the catalyst we need to become a good team.
So there's my vent. I feel better. Not quite as good as mrclawz, but better.
by EEWildcat on Nov 9, 2007 2:38 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Blaming Tubby?
Billy Clyde has had a couple of weeks to sort through this teams's problems. Now he has more time. In time this may be a blessing in disguise.
QUESTION: Why do we play basketball in football season. Once BB games didn't start until December. Is it greed?
by 58Fan on Nov 9, 2007 5:32 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.....
by MartinGolf9 on Nov 9, 2007 9:00 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think ...
When Pitino left, I recall many thinking the cupboard was not exactly loaded. The fact was, the 1998 team achieved wildly beyond expectations.
Smith left us one five-star, 4-four stars and a bunch of role players. He also was the primary person responsible for Patterson's commitment -- he had done much to interest Patterson in UK, and no reasonable person believes that Patterson wouldn't have come to UK if he stayed. Gillispie did a great job of closing that deal.
So in essence, Tubby also left us with a top 25 forward that all we had to do was convince that Smith's loss didn't mean the program was going to go in the toilet. We did that, and he came.
Not really that bad, if you ask me. I know some people are inclined to blame Smith for everything that comes down the pike, but I think that is really excuse-making. Uneven recruiting was one of the reasons the BBN wanted him gone, remember? We got our collective wish, and now we want to keep pointing fingers at him? Nah.
We got beat -- not because of Smith, not because of fatigue, not because of space aliens or the wrath of God -- we lost because we played below UK standards, and the opponent played basketball the way we should have played. We got out-executed and for my money, out coached.
by Truzenzuzex on Nov 9, 2007 9:16 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually...
by Kilgore Trout on Nov 9, 2007 2:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
My take...for what it's worth.
I was in attendance Wednesday, and I must say it was a surreal experience.
The tone was set early. You may recall the first 1:42: TO, TO, Foul, TO. Not a great start. But nevertheless, it set the tone for the rest of the game.
As the game progressed, and Bradley continued to play as if along with his feet, there was also cement in his Nikes, I asked my brother if he was getting rubbed on the cuts his man was making to the basket. Unfortunatley, the answer was no.
OUT OF 26 MADE FIELD GOALS, 14 WERE LAYUPS. More than half their made baskets were layups. I can't believe they didn't shoot 73% for the game instead of just the second half. The "help" defense was nearly non-existent.
Bradley, Crawford, and Meeks were beat from the get-go. They couldn't guard Abraham Lincoln.
UK LOST THE REBOUNDING BATTLE BY 8 BOARDS. GW had 31 defensive rebounds, UK had 11 offensive rebounds. A huge discrepency.
THE GUARDS WERE A COMBINED 14-44 FROM THE FIELD. If you take away Legions numbers, they were 10-37. Pathetic. Overall 35.5% shooting. We all know what happens when a team shoots 35%.
CRAWFORD HAD 1 REBOUND. Joe C. please, please hit the damn boards.
GW SHOOTS 8-17 THREES. Just another indication of the complete and total failure of UK to guard... someone, anyone. I'd be satisfied if someone decided to guard one of the officials.
Why? Why did this happen? I think there are a couple of culprits. Even though one hears,and reads a resounding denial from the UK camp, I believe tired legs are partly to blame. I don't though have a problem with BCG's practice schedule. This has worked for him in the past, and many other coaches do the same thing, or something very similar.
The other reason, for what amounted to a total collapse, I feel, was Clyde making a point. After Tuesday nights game Crawford was quoted in the HL as saying that they "just needed to buy into the system". I did not think much of it at the time, but now I consider that a very telling statement.
BCG has a monumnetal task. Taking over the most storied program in college basketball, and being forced to install his offensive and defensive sets in 3 weeks. Along with the conditioning issues he's dealing with, along with the injury to Jasper. A lot is on hisplate. He does not have time to be screwing around trying to convince his players that coach knows best. A quick an effective lesson may have been taught against Gardner-Webb.
I have seen BCG coach in approximately 10 games throughout his career. He is an active coach on the sideline. At times one may characterize his demeanor as animated.
Wednesday night he looked uninterested. I don't recall him rising out of his seat other than to chew on an officials ear, which he did twice. Something was amiss.
What? We can only speculate. As I noted earlier, I feel he was teaching. Teaching a hard lesson.
Does anyone other than me find it interesting that the two players who performed the best Wednesday are both freshman? And that he left Bradley on the floor for 40 minutes?
Curious.
In the end though I think the players are smart enough to acquise. BCG is going to do what he has to do to win ballgames when it matters. I say more power to him.
Clyde was born to coach at one of the Big 6-UK, UNC, UCLA, IU, Kansas, or Duke. He'll get the job done.
by Ken Howlett on Nov 10, 2007 12:54 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
best stat
by UKWildCatFanatic on Nov 10, 2007 1:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
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